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USMCnBNSFdude
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23 May 2011, 2:32 pm

MasterJedi wrote:
Raise your kids so they have a strong educational foundation. Raise them to have good study and diet habits so that they'll study hard, excel in school and one day make the world a better place.

Are you saying you can't be religious and get a good education?



Sand
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23 May 2011, 6:19 pm

leejosepho wrote:
Sand wrote:
You claim to have knowledge of the character of God? That's quite a supposition.
All that is known of God is dogma. There are no verifiable observations.

... and yet the alleged "science" you and others present here does exactly the same!


I find that an interesting proposition. Do you have any examples?



leejosepho
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23 May 2011, 6:36 pm

Sand wrote:
leejosepho wrote:
Sand wrote:
You claim to have knowledge of the character of God? That's quite a supposition.
All that is known of God is dogma. There are no verifiable observations.

... and yet the alleged "science" you and others present here does exactly the same!

I find that an interesting proposition. Do you have any examples?

Certainly, and without putting you or anyone else on the spot personally:

People have decided "God" either could not or would not be one thing or another because "God" would then not (be able to) meet some standard they had allegedly established in accordance with "science" ...

... and then all of that ends up being dogma allegedly proving one thing or another about "God"!


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Sand
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23 May 2011, 6:51 pm

leejosepho wrote:
Sand wrote:
leejosepho wrote:
Sand wrote:
You claim to have knowledge of the character of God? That's quite a supposition.
All that is known of God is dogma. There are no verifiable observations.

... and yet the alleged "science" you and others present here does exactly the same!

I find that an interesting proposition. Do you have any examples?

Certainly, and without putting you or anyone else on the spot personally:

People have decided "God" either could not or would not be one thing or another because "God" would then not (be able to) meet some standard they had allegedly established in accordance with "science" ...

... and then all of that ends up being dogma allegedly proving one thing or another about "God"!


What has that to do with your claim that science relies on dogma? What scientific basic proposition is based on unfounded material?



leejosepho
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23 May 2011, 7:03 pm

Sand wrote:
leejosepho wrote:
Sand wrote:
leejosepho wrote:
Sand wrote:
You claim to have knowledge of the character of God? That's quite a supposition.
All that is known of God is dogma. There are no verifiable observations.

... and yet the alleged "science" you and others present here does exactly the same!

I find that an interesting proposition. Do you have any examples?

Certainly, and without putting you or anyone else on the spot personally:

People have decided "God" either could not or would not be one thing or another because "God" would then not (be able to) meet some standard they had allegedly established in accordance with "science" ...

... and then all of that ends up being dogma allegedly proving one thing or another about "God"!

What has that to do with your claim that science relies on dogma?

Where have I ever said science relies on dogma?!

Sand wrote:
What scientific basic proposition is based on unfounded material?

How would I know?! I am no scientist!

Are you trying to trick me into something?! :roll:


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Sand
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23 May 2011, 7:18 pm

leejosepho wrote:
Sand wrote:
leejosepho wrote:
Sand wrote:
leejosepho wrote:
Sand wrote:
You claim to have knowledge of the character of God? That's quite a supposition.
All that is known of God is dogma. There are no verifiable observations.

... and yet the alleged "science" you and others present here does exactly the same!

I find that an interesting proposition. Do you have any examples?

Certainly, and without putting you or anyone else on the spot personally:

People have decided "God" either could not or would not be one thing or another because "God" would then not (be able to) meet some standard they had allegedly established in accordance with "science" ...

... and then all of that ends up being dogma allegedly proving one thing or another about "God"!

What has that to do with your claim that science relies on dogma?

Where have I ever said science relies on dogma?!

Sand wrote:
What scientific basic proposition is based on unfounded material?

How would I know?! I am no scientist!

Are you trying to trick me into something?! :roll:


This is your statement:

[b]Sand wrote:
All they can say about those observations is that they have a tremendous integrity, they can be repeated by anybody any time to be confirmed and they contain all the basic functional knowledge that underlies current technological civilization. That seems sufficient to me.

Substitute "supernatural" for "technological" there and I can make exactly the same kind of statement and back it up well.[/b

In effect you claim technology is based on dogma just like assertions of the supernatural. I'm merely requesting concrete instances.



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23 May 2011, 7:30 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:
MasterJedi wrote:
that makes zero sense. If I told you 2+2=5, you'd believe me?


No. I'm offended that you would dream I'd be that easy to bowl over. Think about all my posts you've read; do I make ANY major life decisions based on someone else's telling me to?

I'm not going to explain why I persist in faith. It would be a waste of my time. I sincerely believe that either a person has been open to connecting to God, or they haven't. Much in the same way some people are open to seeing people or life from an entirely different perspective, and some people are not. Connecting to faith requires being OPEN to ideas and experiences that make no sense, yet are real none-the-less. It means seeing and hearing and feeling beyond the tangible. And ... I totally accept that none of that is natural to many with AS, simply because of the AS, and I wonder what God's plan there is, but that is beyond the scope of my life and beyond the scope of what I feel are my current missions in this world and, so ... I can't resolve it.


Great post, thank you DW. I thorougly respect all the information you have brought to this thread, I love hearing someone so proudly defend the truth.

Religion, faith, whatever you want to call it, is the singlemost powerful force in the world. In God's name, there is nothing we can't or won't do. If we all unite and follow Jesus Christ, and worship the one and only God, we would literally have paradise on earth. Of course Satan wants to quell that force, so he turns people away from God with all the distractions in our world today.

When the time comes that we have a One World Order, and mark my words it will happen, we will all be forced to look to one main leader. To follow the ideals of one government and one military. They will make people believe it is for the greater good.

Well it will be, but for their own greater good, not the good of the common person.

How is that different from worshipping one God? It's not. It's just evil. Instead of worshipping God, people will be worshipping Satan and not even know it. That is why he was represented as a snake in the garden of Eden, because of how sneaky and sly he is.

I can guess how many skeptics are laughing and shaking their heads. I can almost hear the denials and insults brewing. Oh laugh on. I was a nonbeliever once, I have criticized and insulted believers for 25 years. I grew up in an anti-religious family, so it's nothing I haven't heard before. All I can say is that when the Tribulation period begins, and the worlds governments unite...I can pray that at least one person who has read this will remember my words. And maybe it will be enough to save you too.


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23 May 2011, 8:21 pm

mb1984 wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
MasterJedi wrote:
that makes zero sense. If I told you 2+2=5, you'd believe me?


No. I'm offended that you would dream I'd be that easy to bowl over. Think about all my posts you've read; do I make ANY major life decisions based on someone else's telling me to?

I'm not going to explain why I persist in faith. It would be a waste of my time. I sincerely believe that either a person has been open to connecting to God, or they haven't. Much in the same way some people are open to seeing people or life from an entirely different perspective, and some people are not. Connecting to faith requires being OPEN to ideas and experiences that make no sense, yet are real none-the-less. It means seeing and hearing and feeling beyond the tangible. And ... I totally accept that none of that is natural to many with AS, simply because of the AS, and I wonder what God's plan there is, but that is beyond the scope of my life and beyond the scope of what I feel are my current missions in this world and, so ... I can't resolve it.


Great post, thank you DW. I thorougly respect all the information you have brought to this thread, I love hearing someone so proudly defend the truth.

Religion, faith, whatever you want to call it, is the singlemost powerful force in the world. In God's name, there is nothing we can't or won't do. If we all unite and follow Jesus Christ, and worship the one and only God, we would literally have paradise on earth. Of course Satan wants to quell that force, so he turns people away from God with all the distractions in our world today.

When the time comes that we have a One World Order, and mark my words it will happen, we will all be forced to look to one main leader. To follow the ideals of one government and one military. They will make people believe it is for the greater good.

Well it will be, but for their own greater good, not the good of the common person.

How is that different from worshipping one God? It's not. It's just evil. Instead of worshipping God, people will be worshipping Satan and not even know it. That is why he was represented as a snake in the garden of Eden, because of how sneaky and sly he is.

I can guess how many skeptics are laughing and shaking their heads. I can almost hear the denials and insults brewing. Oh laugh on. I was a nonbeliever once, I have criticized and insulted believers for 25 years. I grew up in an anti-religious family, so it's nothing I haven't heard before. All I can say is that when the Tribulation period begins, and the worlds governments unite...I can pray that at least one person who has read this will remember my words. And maybe it will be enough to save you too.


Whatever this Tribulation period might be it certainly sounds better than the failure on the 21st of May of all those expectant people to get hoisted into Heaven. Is there a date involved or must we merely be patient and watch the exuberant arms industries in the major powers to voluntarily go out of business?



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23 May 2011, 8:57 pm

[quote="Sand]Whatever this Tribulation period might be it certainly sounds better than the failure on the 21st of May of all those expectant people to get hoisted into Heaven. Is there a date involved or must we merely be patient and watch the exuberant arms industries in the major powers to voluntarily go out of business?[/quote]

The Bible tells us that we will not know when it will happen:

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare.

The reason is explained easily with:

Matthew 24:43 But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into.

The tribulation period is when everyone who chose not to follow God before the "rapture" are left on earth. There will be times of famine, war, extreme natural disasters and the majority of the population will be wiped out. During this time, people who are left behind can still recognize God and they will be saved when Jesus returns.

There are many theories on this, many different beliefs on when it is going to happen. Some believe the "rapture" has already occured.

God is out there, and when you find Him, you WILL know. That's all I can say.


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Sand
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23 May 2011, 10:44 pm

mb1984 wrote:
[quote="Sand]Whatever this Tribulation period might be it certainly sounds better than the failure on the 21st of May of all those expectant people to get hoisted into Heaven. Is there a date involved or must we merely be patient and watch the exuberant arms industries in the major powers to voluntarily go out of business?


The Bible tells us that we will not know when it will happen:

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare.

The reason is explained easily with:

Matthew 24:43 But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into.

The tribulation period is when everyone who chose not to follow God before the "rapture" are left on earth. There will be times of famine, war, extreme natural disasters and the majority of the population will be wiped out. During this time, people who are left behind can still recognize God and they will be saved when Jesus returns.

There are many theories on this, many different beliefs on when it is going to happen. Some believe the "rapture" has already occured.

God is out there, and when you find Him, you WILL know. That's all I can say.[/quote]

The Bible tells you. To me it is as relevant as Superman Comics. God may or may not be out there. When He comes in here and sits down with me for a cup of coffee and clearly explains what all His peculiarities are all about I might pay for the coffees. Otherwise I'd choose separate bills.



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23 May 2011, 11:13 pm

Sand wrote:
mb1984 wrote:
[quote="Sand]Whatever this Tribulation period might be it certainly sounds better than the failure on the 21st of May of all those expectant people to get hoisted into Heaven. Is there a date involved or must we merely be patient and watch the exuberant arms industries in the major powers to voluntarily go out of business?


The Bible tells us that we will not know when it will happen:

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare.

The reason is explained easily with:

Matthew 24:43 But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into.

The tribulation period is when everyone who chose not to follow God before the "rapture" are left on earth. There will be times of famine, war, extreme natural disasters and the majority of the population will be wiped out. During this time, people who are left behind can still recognize God and they will be saved when Jesus returns.

There are many theories on this, many different beliefs on when it is going to happen. Some believe the "rapture" has already occured.

God is out there, and when you find Him, you WILL know. That's all I can say.


The Bible tells you. To me it is as relevant as Superman Comics. God may or may not be out there. When He comes in here and sits down with me for a cup of coffee and clearly explains what all His peculiarities are all about I might pay for the coffees. Otherwise I'd choose separate bills.[/quote]

Fortunately, we are living in end times, and there is not long to wait until God shows Himself, and his wrath.


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23 May 2011, 11:16 pm

mb1984 wrote:
Sand wrote:
mb1984 wrote:
[quote="Sand]Whatever this Tribulation period might be it certainly sounds better than the failure on the 21st of May of all those expectant people to get hoisted into Heaven. Is there a date involved or must we merely be patient and watch the exuberant arms industries in the major powers to voluntarily go out of business?


The Bible tells us that we will not know when it will happen:

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare.

The reason is explained easily with:

Matthew 24:43 But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into.

The tribulation period is when everyone who chose not to follow God before the "rapture" are left on earth. There will be times of famine, war, extreme natural disasters and the majority of the population will be wiped out. During this time, people who are left behind can still recognize God and they will be saved when Jesus returns.

There are many theories on this, many different beliefs on when it is going to happen. Some believe the "rapture" has already occured.

God is out there, and when you find Him, you WILL know. That's all I can say.


The Bible tells you. To me it is as relevant as Superman Comics. God may or may not be out there. When He comes in here and sits down with me for a cup of coffee and clearly explains what all His peculiarities are all about I might pay for the coffees. Otherwise I'd choose separate bills.


Fortunately, we are living in end times, and there is not long to wait until God shows Himself, and his wrath.[/quote]

Considering what happened last Saturday I feel rather calm



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24 May 2011, 3:25 am

Sand wrote:
This is your statement:

Sand wrote:

All they can say about those observations is that they have a tremendous integrity, they can be repeated by anybody any time to be confirmed and they contain all the basic functional knowledge that underlies current technological civilization. That seems sufficient to me.

Quote:
Substitute "supernatural" for "technological" there and I can make exactly the same kind of statement and back it up well.


In effect you claim technology is based on dogma just like assertions of the supernatural.

There is no "in effect" there at all. Rather, I had said what I meant, and I still do mean what I had actually said:

My observations (as shared with many others) have a tremendous integrity. They can be repeated by anybody any time to be confirmed, and they contain all the basic functional knowledge that underlies current "supernatural civilization" (people living in right spiritual fellowship). That seems sufficient to me.

Sand wrote:
I'm merely requesting concrete instances.

No, you are asking me to quote others so you can pick apart my comprehensions of their posts.

Not interested.

As already said, and as evidenced in various discussions right here in PPR about over-sized rocks, one-ended sticks and the matter of "perfect world" versus "best sovereign selection":

People have decided "God" either could not or would not be one thing or another because "God" would then not (be able to) meet some standard they had allegedly established in accordance with "science" ...

... and then all of that ends up being dogma allegedly proving one thing or another about "God"!

=======================

As a somewhat-related aside here ...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpxT--G-WkY[/youtube]


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Sand
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24 May 2011, 4:11 am

leejosepho wrote:
Sand wrote:
This is your statement:

Sand wrote:

All they can say about those observations is that they have a tremendous integrity, they can be repeated by anybody any time to be confirmed and they contain all the basic functional knowledge that underlies current technological civilization. That seems sufficient to me.

Quote:
Substitute "supernatural" for "technological" there and I can make exactly the same kind of statement and back it up well.


In effect you claim technology is based on dogma just like assertions of the supernatural.

There is no "in effect" there at all. Rather, I had said what I meant, and I still do mean what I had actually said:

My observations (as shared with many others) have a tremendous integrity. They can be repeated by anybody any time to be confirmed, and they contain all the basic functional knowledge that underlies current "supernatural civilization" (people living in right spiritual fellowship). That seems sufficient to me.

Sand wrote:
I'm merely requesting concrete instances.

No, you are asking me to quote others so you can pick apart my comprehensions of their posts.

Not interested.

As already said, and as evidenced in various discussions right here in PPR about over-sized rocks, one-ended sticks and the matter of "perfect world" versus "best sovereign selection":

People have decided "God" either could not or would not be one thing or another because "God" would then not (be able to) meet some standard they had allegedly established in accordance with "science" ...

... and then all of that ends up being dogma allegedly proving one thing or another about "God"!

=======================

As a somewhat-related aside here ...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpxT--G-WkY[/youtube]


So what you're saying is that all conceptions of God are vulnerable and not worth discussing. And also declaring that people living in spiritual fellowship (a term not particularly clear to me) is absolute proof of God. All that I can figure out is that you claim a bunch of people agreeing on something thereby makes that a valid proof as solid as any scientifically validated accepted fact. I'm sorry, I cannot agree to that.



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24 May 2011, 4:54 am

Sand wrote:
So what you're saying is that all conceptions of God are vulnerable and not worth discussing.

Why do you keep suggesting I have said things I have not said?! :roll:

But of course, yes, I do know some likely answers to that question.

Sand wrote:
And also declaring that people living in spiritual fellowship (a term not particularly clear to me) is absolute proof of God.

I have never claimed to have absolute proof of/for anything to anyone other than myself and/or as in concert with others who have also done their very own "taste and see" supernatural "scientific experiments".

Sand wrote:
All that I can figure out is that you claim a bunch of people agreeing on something thereby makes that a valid proof as solid as any scientifically validated accepted fact.

Nothing even close to that.

Sand wrote:
I'm sorry, I cannot agree to that.

That is good!


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