Is it true some aspies are homicidal?

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swbluto
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22 May 2011, 7:13 pm

I read from somewhere online that some people with aspergers become homicidal because they're mistreated by others and I read that Jared Lee Loughner had aspergers and there's speculations that Hitler had it. So, is it true? Is this why most people shun those with aspergers? Because some of them are going to turn into cold-blooded killers or are the "cold blooded killer" types?



Verdandi
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22 May 2011, 7:17 pm

swbluto wrote:
I read from somewhere online that some people with aspergers become homicidal because they're mistreated by others and I read that Jared Lee Loughner had aspergers. Is this true? Is this why most people shun those with aspergers? Because they're going to turn into cold-blooded killers or are the "cold blooded killer" types?


1) Jared Lee Loughner does not have Asperger's. His use of language, idiosyncratic beliefs, and flat affect is more indicative of schizophrenia, if anything.

2) AS people - and for that matter, schizophrenic people - are significantly less likely to be violent than the general population.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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22 May 2011, 7:19 pm

I haven't killed anyone... yet :wink:



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22 May 2011, 7:20 pm

Yes, some Aspies are homicidal. But the percentage of Aspies who are homicidal is lower than the percentage of NTs who are homicidal.

Aspies are statistically less violent than NTs, mostly because violence is a social activity and we tend to be introverts.


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22 May 2011, 7:25 pm

I felt homicidal towards my boss after she bullied me severely for three years straight. Even now, I couldn't trust myself with her if I had the chance to get away with murder. I guess that makes me a homicidal Aspie.



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22 May 2011, 7:30 pm

Verdandi wrote:
1) Jared Lee Loughner does not have Asperger's. His use of language, idiosyncratic beliefs, and flat affect is more indicative of schizophrenia, if anything.


There's significant overlap between aspergers and schizophrenia, so if he had any "schizophrenic" traits, he would've also had "half aspergers" type of traits. However, I caught some of his videos before he went onto his deadly rampage, and I found no evidence of schizophrenic traits. Sure, he might have had unusual beliefs, but his beliefs were directly derived from the sovereign citizens political beliefs so there was nothing "hallucinatory", "imaginary" or "paranoid" about it.



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22 May 2011, 7:33 pm

swbluto wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
1) Jared Lee Loughner does not have Asperger's. His use of language, idiosyncratic beliefs, and flat affect is more indicative of schizophrenia, if anything.


There's significant overlap between aspergers and schizophrenia, so if he had any "schizophrenic" traits, he would've also had "half aspergers" type of traits. However, I caught some of his videos before he went onto his deadly rampage, and I found no evidence of schizophrenic traits. Sure, he might have had unusual beliefs, but his beliefs were directly derived from the sovereign citizens political beliefs so there was nothing "hallucinatory", "imaginary" or "paranoid" about it.

Loughner could be an NT 8O



swbluto
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22 May 2011, 7:36 pm

Callista wrote:
Yes, some Aspies are homicidal. But the percentage of Aspies who are homicidal is lower than the percentage of NTs who are homicidal.


Hmmm... I don't know about that. A significantly greater percentage of aspies are continuously bullied than NTs, so I'd imagine that'd push the homicidal rate up higher.

Quote:
Aspies are statistically less violent than NTs, mostly because violence is a social activity and we tend to be introverts.


Sources? ...And... Seung-Hui Cho, the Virginia Tech killer, was introverted. In fact, the introverted creepy killer type is such a well-known archetype, like with those Columbine killers.



Last edited by swbluto on 22 May 2011, 7:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

swbluto
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22 May 2011, 7:40 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
swbluto wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
1) Jared Lee Loughner does not have Asperger's. His use of language, idiosyncratic beliefs, and flat affect is more indicative of schizophrenia, if anything.


There's significant overlap between aspergers and schizophrenia, so if he had any "schizophrenic" traits, he would've also had "half aspergers" type of traits. However, I caught some of his videos before he went onto his deadly rampage, and I found no evidence of schizophrenic traits. Sure, he might have had unusual beliefs, but his beliefs were directly derived from the sovereign citizens political beliefs so there was nothing "hallucinatory", "imaginary" or "paranoid" about it.

Loughner could be an NT 8O


But, he was a killer and NTs couldn't do something like that. NTs go to parties, have fun and socialize all the time, so there's no way he could be strictly NT. He must have been at least half aspergian, especially considering his pedantic language and his tendency for monologues and his tendency to adopt esoteric beliefs (As opposed to beliefs of hallucinatory or paranoid ideation which characterize schizophrenia).



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22 May 2011, 7:43 pm

Callista wrote:
Yes, some Aspies are homicidal. But the percentage of Aspies who are homicidal is lower than the percentage of NTs who are homicidal.

Aspies are statistically less violent than NTs, mostly because violence is a social activity and we tend to be introverts.

That sounds right to me.

In my own case, I had always been mostly passive until at least into my twenties when I had finally "had enough" of being abused, mis-used and bullied around, but even then I did my best (and successfully, I might add) to avoid ever in any great way physically harming another human being. However, and as a veteran of the Viet Nam era (but who never faced actual combat), I am afraid I might have come back from there as some kind of homicidal maniac (after having had to face its every-day-and-never-ending fear of anyone's death).


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22 May 2011, 7:48 pm

Sometimes I feel like conquering a small island nation.

Then I realize if I did this I would have to talk to people. It would be pretty cool to be in a show where you just kick butt, but the stark reality is I lack the demeanor to be hannibal.



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22 May 2011, 7:49 pm

swbluto wrote:
But, he was a killer and NTs couldn't do something like that. NTs go to parties, have fun and socialize all the time, so there's no way he could be strictly NT. He must have been at least half aspergian, especially considering his pedantic language and his tendency for monologues and his tendency to adopt esoteric beliefs (As opposed to beliefs of hallucinatory or paranoid ideation which characterize schizophrenia).


I didn't say he was schizophrenic, I said his behavior was more indicative of schizophrenia.

And I should note I have never made any claim that NTs "go to parties, have fun and socialize all the time" if you're directing your sarcasm at my comment. Given that you asked if he has AS, you really shouldn't be surprised or snarky that someone might offer an alternative theory as to a possible (but as far as I know, not actual) diagnosis.

Also, I do seem to recall he pretty clearly had some word salad in some of his videos, but I am not going to go looking again.



Last edited by Verdandi on 22 May 2011, 7:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

wavefreak58
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22 May 2011, 7:52 pm

swbluto wrote:
But, he was a killer and NTs couldn't do something like that. NTs go to parties, have fun and socialize all the time, so there's no way he could be strictly NT. He must have been at least half aspergian, especially considering his pedantic language and his tendency for monologues and his tendency to adopt esoteric beliefs (As opposed to beliefs of hallucinatory or paranoid ideation which characterize schizophrenia).


You are making some really broad generalities here. First not all NTs go to parties have fun and socialize all the time. There is as great a variation in NTs as in Asperger's.

Second, "half aspergian" makes no sense. Everybody displays traits that vary from the norm, and some will display a few traits that are shared with autistics. That's just another example of how varied humans are.

Third, pedantic language and esoteric beliefs are not alone an indication of asperger's. These may not even be present in an Aspie. Again, a sign of human variation.


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22 May 2011, 7:53 pm

Callista wrote:
Yes, some Aspies are homicidal. But the percentage of Aspies who are homicidal is lower than the percentage of NTs who are homicidal.

Aspies are statistically less violent than NTs, mostly because violence is a social activity and we tend to be introverts.


Also, I think homicidal actions are products of emotion. I have the emotional range of a teaspoon, so the chances of me doing anything that unreasonable are slim to none. It might be an issue for aspies that suffer from anger management issues, but I'm not one of them.


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22 May 2011, 7:55 pm

swbluto wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
swbluto wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
1) Jared Lee Loughner does not have Asperger's. His use of language, idiosyncratic beliefs, and flat affect is more indicative of schizophrenia, if anything.


There's significant overlap between aspergers and schizophrenia, so if he had any "schizophrenic" traits, he would've also had "half aspergers" type of traits. However, I caught some of his videos before he went onto his deadly rampage, and I found no evidence of schizophrenic traits. Sure, he might have had unusual beliefs, but his beliefs were directly derived from the sovereign citizens political beliefs so there was nothing "hallucinatory", "imaginary" or "paranoid" about it.

Loughner could be an NT 8O


But, he was a killer and NTs couldn't do something like that. NTs go to parties, have fun and socialize all the time, so there's no way he could be strictly NT. He must have been at least half aspergian, especially considering his pedantic language and his tendency for monologues and his tendency to adopt esoteric beliefs (As opposed to beliefs of hallucinatory or paranoid ideation which characterize schizophrenia).

From what I read about Loughner, SW, he was fine until he experimented with a lot of drugs, then his personality deteriorated and he got kicked out of community college. He had friends, socialized, did drugs with them, so he was NT in that respect. It was only recently that his personality altered to such a degree it began affecting his life. Before that he was just like all the other kiddos.
Doesn't sound like an ASD to me.
I bet if he does plead insanity, his lawyer will say his Psychiatrist diagnosed him with Paranoid Schizophrenia.