Religion and Atheism: How do they deal with life?

Post Reply New Topic

Okay so I know there's a topic on Atheists here but mine's a little more specific, so I made this topic.

Basically, I am a part of a group based here in Singapore called A-CASE. Now, just a year ago, I actually attempted to get the other members to adopt my ideals and stop hiding their identities. However, I did not listen or put their situation in consideration. So I became so unpopular within A-CASE that alot of members either left the forums or quit A-CASE altogether out of fear that I will force them in person to reveal their conditions. To this day, they are still pissed at me but I'm doing everything I can to make up for my sins. One of these people who are pissed at me is this member (I will only call her by her name on A-CASE, Villette) is an atheist.

Now, Villette has Asperger's like me but unlike me, she's pro-cure. From what I've heard so far, she's afraid of having her condition and wishes to be cured so that she can be accepted. Her idea is our emotions is due to neurological and chemical complications. She believes that to only way to survive is to be cured. Now I can't blame her for being like this. I mean I'm sure alot of us have gone through some bad stuff in life, sometimes so bad that we wanna be cured. But ofcourse, there are others like me who have no qualms about having a mental disability despite all the bad stuff happening to us in life because of our conditions.

Now I'm sure you all might be wondering "why are you posting such a topic that does match the title?". The answer's simple. To be honest, No offense to any atheist here on Wrong Planet but I'm not too fond of atheists. Sorry but I grew up in a deeply religious household so religion plays a big part in helping me survive. To me, atheists give up really easily and I find that they can be pretty insensitive most of the time and are unforgiving. This was further reinforced with my friend's experiences with atheists with a bunch of normal atheists made every possible efford to degrade my friend because of his condition (he's an aspie like me). For me, having a religion gives me a sense of purpose to keep going forward. Yeah, the atheists might say that I'm deluded and clinging onto something superficial instead of going out on my own but having a religion gives me a sense of direction. But I don't wanna think so negatively about atheists. Hence, this topic. I wanna know how atheists deal with life like what makes them keep going forward and how they interact with someone in regards to each other's personal feelings. I wanna give the atheists a chance to prove that they're not all bad. I mean, despite my personal thoughts about atheists, I have absolutely nothing against them. I mean one of my idols, James Cameron, is an atheists but he's still my idol, possibly my biggest. Also, if there's anyone who has interacted with atheist(s) before, please let me know how it's like. Thanks.

P.S.: I hope Villette's not a member here. If she finds out about this topic, I'm a dead man.

At least one self-professed atheist here on WP and I seem to "deal with life" and interact with others in about the same way, and all of that suggests to me that formal religion might not always even be necessary in order for same to actually happen.

It is amazing to me, all my life in or around the American academic community, that you do not get atheists better than yourself.

As one who is not but was an atheist, with a brother who would fit with the Strident ones here and a never strident Atheis father though a self-styled Christian mother, I can legitimately answer that question.

Dealing with the things life throws? I handled it just fine. Not a brilliant life, but I had a purpose [solve this problem, understand that language, tell people about this concept, and avoid falling into the uncertainty of death as long as possible]. I did not have any help, but I had the satisfaction that I was smarter and stronger than those who NEEDED help.

You know Dark Side of the Moon?



Time
(Mason, Waters, Wright, Gilmour) 7:06

Ticking away the moments that make up a dull day
You fritter and waste the hours in an offhand way.
Kicking around on a piece of ground in your home town
Waiting for someone or something to show you the way.

Tired of lying in the sunshine staying home to watch the rain.
You are young and life is long and there is time to kill today.
And then one day you find ten years have got behind you.
No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun.

So you run and you run to catch up with the sun but it's sinking
Racing around to come up behind you again.
The sun is the same in a relative way but you're older,
Shorter of breath and one day closer to death.

Every year is getting shorter never seem to find the time.
Plans that either come to naught or half a page of scribbled lines
Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way
The time is gone, the song is over,
Thought I'd something more to say.

Right. That expresses a good part of my creed as atheist, and "Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way" is a large part of how I dealt with life.

--------------

As now a believer, I remember it well. And I remember the day I woke up and asked my reflection what and why I had been fighting all that time. And my purpose is rather different and instead of keeping on living because the alternative is unknown I keep on living because the door to elsewhere has not yet been opened to me.

Thing is, God helps the atheist by stealth, moving them toward his goal for them, and the atheist thinks - I thought I was doing it myself.

Umm..... ok?

I am one of those stubborn people, so for me to stay going isn't so bad. I just need to have a direction, and I am already there. It's not even something I have to think about. Even further, I do have desires, urges, and all of that like just about every other human being, so, I mean, just imagine a person who isn't very religious, and you've probably got some mapping out of how I think.

I don't understand the criticism "give up really easily". In my own life, I feel like the religious people give up really easily, and I am willing to stand amidst the madness trying to fix it all. Everybody knows my stubbornness, and my willingness and ability to fight things through.

I can be somewhat insensitive. Whether I can be forgiving or not depends on whether I think the person is serious. Often I don't accept things I consider rather fake, but I will try to press for honesty. I think people will admit that I am generally a very thoughtful and concerned individual though given the right context, although I am definitely a vicious fighter with a rather insulting sense of humor sometimes, which can mask this.

First two paragraph [not sure of the third] there stood I. Pretty precisely.

for me its that religious people do give up to easily whenever they meet something they do not understand they dont even TRY they just say "oh i dont understand it so God must have done it and there is NO other possible answer" and they will fight to the death that belief, as a former catholic i used to have that same belief but now i disregard religion and i focus on finding out the truth in life instead of living in complete and utter ignorance, and any christian who claims to love learning you might want to stop according to St. Augustine, Curiosity is the biggest source of evil and temptation and humans are not meant to try and understand their world, "here is another form of temptation, even more fraught with danger. This is the disease of curiosity." -- Saint Augustine

i am the type to completely disregard authority, religion, and tradition in place of reason and logic, and religion has NO place for reason and logic apologetics are evidence enough of this

I took these 2 key parts of your post.

Here's what I see. You believe in a deity because it was indoctrinated into you since you were little and as an adult you cling to it to go on.. to give you direction as you say. You stick to a social group (other religious people) because you feel they accept you due to a common set of beliefs.

Question is, from a logical (and atheist) point of view.. do they really accept you or do they tolerate you and pretend to accept you because that is what is expected of them? Are they acting upon a set of behavioral rules that were instilled in them from childhood or do they really consider you an equal in every way?

These are hard questions but it is important. We all do the 'pretend' thing to other people in varying degrees of context; its basic human behavior.

She on the other hand, realizes that she is different no matter what and looks for a solution to the problem. How she thinks that should be achieved or the why she wants it is personal so I could not comment on that.

So, you are in the 'the means justify the end' loop while she is on the 'the end justifies the means' loop. You're both looking for the same thing: acceptance. Thing is, she wants to achieve it by tackling the issue directly whereas you on the other hand, chose a substitute for that acceptance.

Which of you two is chasing an illusion I wonder?

What keeps me "moving forward"?
The knowledge that my life freaking sucks,
and if I don't do sh*t, it will continue to suck at precisely the same level if not get worse.
That's really not pessimism- it's just reality.

But then, I can't cognitively grasp the notion of willing oneself to believe in a concept devoid of supportive evidence,
so I can't truly answer.

Ok so your two reasons to being religious is

1) It helps you survive, which means you are utilizing religion as a means to an end
2) It gives you a sense of direction

Those aren't really good reasons for believing in religion. They are very utilitarian and aren't really grounded on any principles. Being godless does not make you wishy washy and religions do not have the monopoly on directing people or giving people a purpose to live. Self-direction and self-reliance are some of the few principles I live by. Human beings are intrinsically purpose driven, it is in our nature. We do not need to be taught how to be purpose seeking. A hamburger commercial appeals to your hunger, it doesn't rewire your brain to feel hunger. Likewise, religion appeals to a sense of purpose rather than invents it.

Also, douchebaggery isn't exclusive to atheists or the religious, it is a universal trait. I am an atheist and although I am disgusted by organized religion, I think it is a manifestation of something deeper rather than being the root of all evil. Historically, religions were mostly used as a front for some political gain rather than the cause of violence altogether. But hey, if there's a will there's a way. If it isn't religion, it'll be something else. Human nature is just strange. I don't really understand most people's reasons for being religious, but I don't feel the need to be condescending towards em.

I am actually agnostic/animism/pantheism, but I was once an atheist myself before I explored a little more. I will try to answer your questions.

Based on bad experiences, I am sure. I am terrified of Christians. I refuse to step in a church, because I had some really bad experiences. I can sympathize with you in that way.



For me, forgiveness is not something to be given. It is something to be earned. I don't view unforgiveness as being insensitive. I view it as being wise.

While an atheist, I thought forgiveness was a way to let people walk all over you. It gave the forgived a reason redo that action all over again; since they do not think there are any consequences. Why be faithful to your wife if she will always forgive you no matter what? It is human nature to take advantage of that.



It seems like a bad crowd that friend was around and their atheism was just a shared trait they happened to have. I was never big on belittling a person no matter what. Atheism had little to do with how those people degraded your friend. They are small people themselves and did this so your friend would "fit in" their group.

I never told people their religion was wrong. I only told them it was wrong to force it on others (and vice versa).



There is nothing wrong with that. If it helps you, that is all that matters. Those who say something you find incredibly supportive is a delusion really do not have your best interests in mind.



If you don't mind me saying, you met some very crappy atheists. It is one thing to question your beliefs, but it is something entirely different when they belittle you on it.

To answer your question on what makes me go forward, I would have to say my passion. I love science, technology, and nature. I hope to help the world move from metallic technology to organic technology in my lifetime.

I want to bring happiness to people no matter the difficulties I go through and no matter how different they are to me. This huge goal and aspiration keeps me going, keeps me running, and it keeps me animated.

I don't think if it comes from God or not. All I know is that the passion exists and that's all that matters. The existence is what matters not the origin.



More so than any other trait, trying to force your ideals on others is very offensive and is often met with fierce resistance. You don't like people to force their ideals on you, why would you do the same? (I think you learned from that, so I won't say any more)

People are people. Some atheists are jerks. Others are pretty darned nice. Most have a combination of good and bad. I would guess that you had the misfortune to have to put up with some jerks. The fact that they are atheists is incidental.

As an atheist myself, I tend to try to treat people as I would want to be treated. I might feel very strongly in how I see the world, but I don't usually discuss it unless the topic comes up and even then I don't take a combative stance. Only if someone becomes combative with me will I be more forthright in how I express myself.

I will say that it can be rather frustrating to deal with people who claim superior knowledge or understanding and yet are very bad at critical thinking. I've encountered people with poor critical thinking skills on both sides of the issue and sometimes it is all I can do to suppress my irritation. Some people's beliefs seem willfully irrational and illogical. Reason and logic are extremely important to me and I find myself astounded and frustrated when I hear someone saying things that are so clearly disconnected from reality. In these situations, I usually say nothing because I really don't want to get into arguments, but nevertheless, it can be frustrating to have to listen to a load of nonsense. Some times it's just better to walk away.

Maybe that really isn't answering the question you are asking. How do I keep going forward? I have meaningful relationships with people. I try to be a decent person and I try to associate with decent people. I have friends who are atheists and friends who are deeply religious. The common thread is that they are all good, reasonable people. The meaning and value in my life is that which I have constructed for myself. It's the same thing anyone else does, atheist or religious.

If you're wondering about our "worldview", it varies. I personally take a libertarian view of morality; live, and let live, by not initiating force against another, or imposing a preference forcefully. I get up in the morning to learn, because I love knowledge. Biology, Physics, Computer Science, Linear Algebra, anything really.

I have never experienced anything like that from any atheists I've known. While I'm generally very private about my life offline, the few people I have disclosed my Asperger's diagnosis to are atheists and they don't seem to blink at all when I reveal that and are generally pretty impressed with my knowledge base. At least that's the impression I get (one person I met at an atheist group even asked me to house set for him once). There might be some differences, though, as from what I understand there's a lot more stigma against those with disabilities in East Asian cultures.

Regardless, my drive has always been a longing for moral and intellectual perfection. The former has become a bit more muddled as, when it comes to metaethics, I've shifted from critical moral realism to a more metaethically agnostic position over the years.

Please be sure this is not an attack on your religious inclinations, merely an attempt to comprehend more clearly what you mean by religion giving meaning to your life and giving it purpose. I find that statement far too vague to enable what you intend to convey. What meaning does it give your life and what purpose does it convey?

As mind-boggling as it may be to believe in a concept devoid of supportive evidence, I find it even more mind-boggling that many people can believe in concepts that have been falsified by overwhelming physical evidence. I refer specifically to young earth creationists. Most of them are probably truly ignorant such evidence exists, or that it falsifies their beliefs, but the resistance they show to what is real is amazing. Humans are stubborn animals.

I for one refuse to believe in a God that would plant so much false evidence about the age of the earth and evolution if eternal damnation is the likeliest consequence for a sincere seeker of truth. That type of God is a sadistic trickster. Pretty cool in some ways, even funny, but not one I care to worship.

OTOH, I accept that personal experience counts for something, even if such experience cannot be verified by anyone else or even adequately communicated to anyone else. So some religious folks may have supportive evidence, but not the type of evidence that can be shared with anyone else besides talking about it and demonstrating by one's life and attitude that such a belief might have something going on.

Still when it comes to subjects like human evolution: we have the fossils; we win. You can't tell me that evolution is just as much religion as creationism, or creationism just as much science as evolution, or that the evidence falsifies evolution or supports young earth creationism, because I know better. I have studied this subject intensely for at least the past forty of my fifty years. I love truth and hate lies, and the blatant lies and distortions spread by the creationists bring shame to their religion and to humanity.

I'm pretty dang tolerant though. I don't really care what anyone else believes. My opinion is there may be more than one path to spiritual awakening (if there even is such a thing as spiritual awakening). What offends me about creationists is how they actively sabotage the science education of American children in public schools, dumbing down everybody else's kids as well as their own. I believe this is harmful to the children, to the competitiveness of our nation in the world economy, and against the best interests of humanity and the planet. It offends me even more that they try to claim the moral high ground on this issue, when they are spreading LIES! (To be fair, most of them don't know they are spreading lies. They have been lied to by sources they trust such as their pastor, or so-called Christian web sites such as Answers in Genesis.)

The situation is so surreal, especially with more astounding evidence being found all the time supporting evolution (Tiktaalik, human chromosome 2, etc.) It is just as ridiculous as if half the adults in this country were to insist the earth is flat in spite of all evidence to the contrary, here in the 21st century. It really is that stupid of them.

Last edited by TheBicyclingGuitarist on 31 May 2011, 8:05 am, edited 5 times in total.

Yes.