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Which one would you prefer?
Autie 4%  4%  [ 2 ]
Aspie 59%  59%  [ 27 ]
Aspergian 30%  30%  [ 14 ]
Autasian 7%  7%  [ 3 ]
Total votes : 46

vermontsavant
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04 Jun 2011, 9:57 pm

i dont know much about the asan,as i said i have never been pro abortion anyway.as my mother said if abortion had been legal in the 40's she wouldnt be here.i know very little about autism speaks or the asan.only time will tell if either org is successful in the advocacy.i dont know why you think im with the asan.i have no involvement with them or autism speaks.i dont get much involved in advocacy im mostly into facts.i think both as and asan have there facts way wrong.my moms biological family owns a bar in springfield mass called the tic toc lounge stop in if your ever in town


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ci
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04 Jun 2011, 10:02 pm

vermontsavant wrote:
i dont know much about the asan,as i said i have never been pro abortion anyway.as my mother said if abortion had been legal in the 40's she wouldnt be here.i know very little about autism speaks or the asan.only time will tell if either org is successful in the advocacy.i dont know why you think im with the asan.i have no involvement with them or autism speaks.i dont get much involved in advocacy im mostly into facts.i think both as and asan have there facts way wrong.my moms biological family owns a bar in springfield mass called the tic toc lounge stop in if your ever in town


I have never said you were part of either. I am also not part of either. These polar opposites seem to be a great distraction in what could be extraordinarily productive advocacy. Once ASAN entered in abortion politics my once consideration to join their network and market it where I live as an affiliation was no longer considered viable. The ASAN and some others have muddied the waters of autism advocacy and have alienated potentials. I wish that people would stop being so distracted and focus on what could be great goals and accomplishments for inclusion, equality and quality of life.

Abortion as an issue is a great social poison effecting many components of mainstream activism.

It is a possibility but not of fact that "distractions" are in general a strategy of special interest.


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Orwell
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05 Jun 2011, 1:17 pm

ci wrote:
Orwell wrote:
ci: I am not offended by being called autistic, nor do I find it disrespectful. I am autistic. No one is proposing addressing individuals by shouting "Hey, autistic! Get over here and fix my computer!" but when discussing something in relation to autistic people, it is much more straightforward simply to say "autistics" rather than some ridiculous elaboration like "persons with autism spectrum disorder" or some such nonsense. Yes, in person, when referring to me specifically, one should simply use my name. But when talking about autism and people who have it, there is no more appropriate word than simply "autistics" or "autistic people" if you prefer.


While it has not reached to the insulting nature of the "R" word or "N" word there is still a few basic ideas in play. Some of the current social agenda's in the usage of a pathological concept in placement to an individuals identity even some of the time in certain settings has resulted in depression and what seems to be great dislike. The problem further with it is the more emotionally it has effected an individual which is more then simply a label but being ingrained as an identity is the conflict with human rights to treatment due to "insecurity" which resulted from the self-esteem in relation to the label.

1. If someone finds it devaluing to be considered a "disorder" there is nothing wrong with that.

2. The more people desire others to focus on a defect and self the more potential self-esteem and or emotional problems in potential.

3. There are more neutral ways to support a positive emotional well being and respectability then calling someone a disorder. Such as individual with autism.

4. Some people hold fast to the idea of being called a label because they think well they are finally understood. But not everyone relates at this level or has moved on from the discovery state of the self and the diagnosis.

In society we just got to learn to respect how each-other feel and that means some people would rather not be called a disorder. I don't think it is unreasonable and in fact calling someone a disorder especially when someone is born different well that's highly unusual for other disabilities and I don't think most would tolerate the assumption for other conditions..

ci, I believe you are misunderstanding me. I am not saying that someone would see you passing on the street and refer to you by any diagnosis you may have. But in discussions specifically about autism, there has to be some term referring to the people affected (and typically this will be speaking in general, not referencing individuals). That is no different than for any other condition.


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ci
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05 Jun 2011, 1:19 pm

Saying someone has autism differs then calling them the condition. I've been called it in media and offline at social events like autism fundraisers. Look he's autistic as if I was some show thing. I do not think they were being mean but come on. What about hello do you have autism? Autistic is like saying someone is a disorder rather then happening to have something.


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05 Jun 2011, 1:22 pm

aldent8807 wrote:
Delirium wrote:
aldent8807 wrote:
Orwell wrote:
None of those. I say "autistic" in place of "someone on the autistic spectrum."

Asperger's will shortly cease to be a separate diagnosis, and good riddance to the imprecision and confusion the term brought. It is time for us to get used to the fact that we are autistic.


My God, shut up. PLEASE, just shut up.

I'm an Aspie, and I've met several other aspies, who are more than capable of doing more things that most autistic people cannot. Like, for a somewhat less recent news article I read(its been a few years) instead of practically letting myself drown or have to have some find me by going "To infinity and beyond!! !" I actually know to f***ing SWIM or start calling for help without someone having to call my name out first. I can drive, feed myself, hold down a well paying full time job(and 2 part timers) as well as attend college full time, dress myself, bathe myself, keep all but my dental hygiene(I always forget to brush my teeth before I head to bed, normally because I'm exhausted from work or homework) I can do my own shopping, count my own change(in fact, I've NEVER gotten incorrect change unless I was giving it up for a donation box by the register) I can hold my own in a relationship(that I want to keep alive that is, otherwise I intentionally sabotage it) I can talk with other people(although I'm a bit shy, but I was also a very sheltered child even before I was diagnosed) keep track of my own appointments by myself, pay my own bills, etcetera.

In fact, in my area (Fort Worth, TX area, although I live 30 miles away from the area in a different town) I've only met 1 aspie who COULDN'T do those things for himself, and he just chose not to cuz daddy, a higher up in Verizon Wireless, sent him a big fat check to keep him going every other week(we're talking thousands of dollars per check, like enough for this guy to eat, sleep, breathe, and live like a king and afford whatever he wanted, aside from REALLY expensive ass cars)

So no, with myself and several others as an example, Aspies are NOT directly under the label of "autistic". I have true "autistic" friends, and they have varying levels of autism, from light(like nearly Aspie like) to SEVERE, like cannot take care of themselves at all(like, their so out of it their parents have to do everything for them, like wipe their ass and the whole 9 yards)


You do realize that autism is a spectrum, right? Asperger's is part of that spectrum.


Of course I realize this.

I know I haven't met ALL the different types of autism, its just, I've met quite a few through support groups and in other aspects of my life, and they've each had a different type of autism. A lot of them were really bad, like I described above. Some of them couldn't learn, some couldn't do math, some couldn't learn English properly(but oddly enough excelled in other languages), some can't write papers, some can't keep their sh** organized. Some have trouble counting money, others have problems counting PERIOD.

Some were Aspies, some were classic autism(as in, what I described before your quote), some were PDD-NOS(atypical autism), some were CDDs, and some were Retts.

Aspies, out of everyone in that group, along with some classic autistics and some PDD-NOSs, are more like non-NTs. We can take care of ourselves sufficiently when given the proper tools and instructions. As opposed to most of the other members of the ASD. We can adapt. In fact, I myself, and another girl that I know, Anna, who is the daughter of a doctor my stepfather works with, are so good at masking these things and taking care of ourselves that we were elected as Peer Mediators in high school, and in college, we actually surprised our English class by announcing that we were(at the time, anyway) a NT couple, which none of the other students had ever suspected us of being NTs(although the couple part was obvious) because of how well we communicated with them and solved our problems together.

So, as an Aspie, it offends me when I tell someone I have Asperger's Syndrome and their like"Oh your autistic....so that means your ret*d, like my cousin's friend (insert name here)......<_< >_><_<*starts to walk away*"

So I say "No, I'm an Aspie, which is PART of the autistic spectrum, but we're so close to normal its an insult to call us autistic.*smile politely*"

Calm down. Sheesh.

And yes, you should be insulted when someone assumes that because you are on the autistic spectrum, you are "ret*d" and exactly like all other autistic people. But the problem lies with them for being idiots, not with those of us who recognize that we are on the same spectrum as "low-functioning" autistics. It is not an insult to call us autistic, because that is what we are. It is an insult to make grotesquely inaccurate assumptions about what being autistic means, and apply those assumptions to us.


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05 Jun 2011, 1:26 pm

ci wrote:
Saying someone has autism differs then calling them the condition. I've been called it in media and offline at social events like autism fundraisers. Look he's autistic as if I was some show thing. I do not think they were being mean but come on. What about hello do you have autism? Autistic is like saying someone is a disorder rather then happening to have something.

So your objection to the term "autistic" is that you prefer the person-first terminology? In that case, we are just going to disagree here. For the most part, I agree with Jim Sinclair's thoughts on the topic, and I prefer "autistic person" over "person with autism." I would sooner say "I am autistic" than "I have autism."

Either way, though, the distinction isn't that huge a deal. If someone else insists on using person-first language, it's not going to offend me.


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ci
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05 Jun 2011, 1:31 pm

The Jim person is about abortion.

Also autism is just a name someone came up with and is a disorder language.

It makes no sense whatsoever other then for the abortion politics that people really want to center a disorder concept in their lives describing themselves other then for political reasons.

It does effect self-esteem the more centered it becomes in someone lives. Autism online politicians use the self-esteem for anti-abortion politics and to go up against treatment advancement rights.

So all in all the preference of being known as a disorder and less then normal human being is non-mistakingly odd in the human dignities sense.

Just politics as usual but I believe this is an ethical issue as stigmatizing children minds and effecting their futures with calling them a disorder is simply outrageous.


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05 Jun 2011, 4:04 pm

I do not see it as necessarily tied to the abortion issue. There is the matter of selective abortion which implies that autistic lives are not worth living.

ci wrote:
So all in all the preference of being known as a disorder and less then normal human being is non-mistakingly odd in the human dignities sense.

I don't know where you get the notion that being known as autistic must also mean considering oneself "less than normal human being." That certainly is not true of me.


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ci
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05 Jun 2011, 4:09 pm

It still is merited by the reality of governing social politics. The more folks focus on the negatives the more negative one will feel. The more people go up against treatment advancements the more human rights are effected. If some people do not want autism removed from them fine that is a human rights choice. Yet that does not mean for generations a pathological concept should be applied as an identity. Realizing autism is part of normalcy means reduced focus on a pathological concept which were constructed simply to help and more on individuality as one is without notions of defectiveness.

I understand the strategies used as that is my skilled interest. The casualties of the social conflicts as the self-esteem and the more ingrained a negativity is made the more the injustice. Special interest will use the pride / self-esteem to justify reduced funding to quality of life services and at the same time treatment advancements others choose who cannot be bullied by extreme pride into not desiring improvement who are at times tied into insurance company special interest. In the end it's common sense not to call someone a disorder and at first it was needed for awareness but ethics have drawn the line.

We are talking about the minds of developing youths now. Folks need to be respectful and not call people a disorder. It's common sense.


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glider18
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05 Jun 2011, 8:30 pm

The poll asked for my preference based on four choices. I chose "Aspie"---which is a term I often use to describe myself. But I also use "autistic" to describe myself---which was not on the poll.


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ci
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05 Jun 2011, 10:36 pm

glider18 wrote:
The poll asked for my preference based on four choices. I chose "Aspie"---which is a term I often use to describe myself. But I also use "autistic" to describe myself---which was not on the poll.


When people call me "autistic" because I pace around a bit, rock when I stand at times or the occasional turn in a circle in high stimulation it really makes me feel defective. Before knowing what "autistic" was I did these things without realizing it. Now I get called a disease \ disorder label at times. I think I don't mind doing what I do and others shouldn't bother much with it.

For someone like you that goes to school and functions so well to call himself a classic form of autism that I myself don't even feel I fit in with let alone have the natural inclusion you do, seems misplaced. I think you are confusing people and they think people with classic autism are that high functioning. I could understand you saying you have mild autism but to call yourself the full blown disorder in a social way I think is just wrong kind of like unethical marketing practices.

If I went around saying I am "autistic" I'd feel funny.

It's just the idea of calling myself a pathological label.

It seems very wrong to do that to myself.

Yet I have no desire to fit into "autism" other then to get the help I need.


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06 Jun 2011, 3:34 am

the 2012 dsm 5's new step rating system i think will solve this issue and label argueing.even better than a 3 step autism step system would be a pervasive developmental disorder 3 step rating of severity.autistic actualy means mute sociopath in greek only 20% people with autism are totaly mute and we cant know if there realy sociopaths.this is why i prefere idiotsavant anyway


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06 Jun 2011, 1:49 pm

I am fair-haired.
I am intelligent.
I am on the autism spectrum.
I am a pain in the neck.
I am atheistic.
I am a mathematician.
I am autistic.
I am not musical.

I have a car.
I have not got a cold.
I have various scars.
I have not got an appendix.
I have no beliefs.
I have a good life.
I have a good set of morals.
I have hazel eyes (but I could lose them, I suppose).

I am not "a car".
I do not "have autism".


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06 Jun 2011, 6:18 pm

ci wrote:
glider18 wrote:
The poll asked for my preference based on four choices. I chose "Aspie"---which is a term I often use to describe myself. But I also use "autistic" to describe myself---which was not on the poll.

For someone like you that goes to school and functions so well to call himself a classic form of autism that I myself don't even feel I fit in with let alone have the natural inclusion you do, seems misplaced. I think you are confusing people and they think people with classic autism are that high functioning. I could understand you saying you have mild autism but to call yourself the full blown disorder in a social way I think is just wrong kind of like unethical marketing practices.

Glider never said he has classic or "full blown" autism. AS is on the autism spectrum, he's diagnosed with it so he has every right to call himself autistic if he wants to.

Don't project your dislike for the term on others please and once again stop telling people they are wrong or unethical for disagreeing with you.

As a general warning for the participants in this thread - you are not entitled to tell people to shut up or use ad hominems - try to express yourself in a civilised manner or you're in direct violation of the ToS not to mention you loose any credibility as valid debate partners.


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ci
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06 Jun 2011, 6:30 pm

It is very civilized. I personally dislike it when others call me a disorder which is also a right and decent. I also believe to call someone autistic based on the professionals I've talked to is implied that the person is diagnosed with classic autism and typically a person is not called autistic unless they have classic autism. I did not make that up and I've said in the past that people can call themselves anything they want. I do however believe it is unethical to call oneself a disorder which one is not necessarily providing all of the facts such as one has mild autism because then people like others have told me believe that all people with autism are that high functioning. It has to do with protecting the quality of lives of individuals who are by far more in need.

It is common for people with A.S in these groups to want to call themselves autistic so I understand your reply. As people with A.S and HFA are more socially prone an active public may become confused. Denoting based on social existence alone autism is not that big of a deal and then not support programs and supports of those who were originally diagnosed autistic. I think of it as both a moral and ethical obligation to make clear these details.

It's about the preservation of quality of life.


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06 Jun 2011, 6:46 pm

Sadly the public is ignorant enough of the issue to only be familiar with (usually) very low functioning autism or even to presume autistics must be non verbal or have low IQ. I think more awareness should be raised concerning autism being a spectrum.

Here in Europe the specialists I've met all refereed to AS as being autism. My diagnosis is somewhat unofficial as it only shows in the medical records in the country I was diagnosed in but the word autism is used several times in that file.

ci wrote:
As people with A.S and HFA are more socially prone an active public may become confused. Denoting based on social existence alone autism is not that big of a deal and then not support programs and supports of those who were originally diagnosed autistic. I think of it as both a moral and ethical obligation to make clear these details.

I understand and agree with this concern. The so called "invisible" disabilities are not correctly understood and often considered fake or attributed to laziness. Again, I would prefer to see more consistent attempts to educate the public instead of overly dramatic and negative representations of autistic people not to mention the semi-hysterical scare campaigns.


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