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Mordy
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23 Aug 2006, 9:06 pm

I think a persons involvement in religion has to do with what the want to see and believe, deep down people have needs that go unmet or hidden depression or fears...

All Religions that offer rewards are about escape to a better place and a promise of happyness, no one would believe in religion if all their gods offered was a pat on the back and a quick death.

I think the more depressed / unhappy one is coupled with intellectual lazyness (i.e. not reading or studying the bible in a fair objective manner), the more susceptable one is to religion.

Most religious people are intellectually and emotionally lazy, either on purpose or despite their lack of awareness of their sheer lazyness of rigorous thought.



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23 Aug 2006, 9:25 pm

waterdogs wrote:
Bad reserch? the sumerians were the first recorded civilization on record dude. that means they were before the jews, the christains, the egyptians, the babylonians and the indians. they made the first written language, and the first spoken language and just about everything else. google the word sumerians, dumbass. im not as easily suckerd into a bull**** religion like you are especially when the jews ripped off the sumerians flood story. and god knows what else


Who cares the jews were more important. No one really cares about sumerians it wasn't there flood. It was God that created the flood and it was written down in the old testment. I wasn't sukered into anything I believe that my religion is the truth and all the others are frauds. Hope this means well it does to me because it reinforces what I believe in. I'm not a history buff nor do I care about it. I believe what I believe and nothing is going to change it. I'm stubbern as an Ass or an ox. No history lecture will change that. Please don't lecture me again.

See what I mean we aren't going any where. No one is going to believe anything we say in here so why try to convince anyone of other things. I had but as you see above there is no fighting each other with words if neither side is affected. Its has if were talking to a brick wall. In one ear and out the other.


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nirrti_rachelle
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23 Aug 2006, 9:25 pm

Mordy wrote:
I think a persons involvement in religion has to do with what the want to see and believe, deep down people have needs that go unmet or hidden depression or fears...

All Religions that offer rewards are about escape to a better place and a promise of happyness, no one would believe in religion if all their gods offered was a pat on the back and a quick death.

I think the more depressed / unhappy one is coupled with intellectual lazyness (i.e. not reading or studying the bible in a fair objective manner), the more susceptable one is to religion.

Most religious people are intellectually and emotionally lazy, either on purpose or despite their lack of awareness of their sheer lazyness of rigorous thought.


Whether a person is religious or not depends more on their up-bringing most of the time. It's not necessarily a matter of being "intellectually lazy" since their parents taught religion as fact just like the things you learned in school growing up. If you're taught that your religion is a fact, not something that's subjective, you would have to admit that your parents, along with the majority of this society, is getting it wrong. And speaking from experience, that is a trauma on the level of divorce, death of a loved-one and learning that 2+2=4 after being told all your life it's 2+2=22.


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LadyMcBeth
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23 Aug 2006, 9:45 pm

waterdogs wrote:
LadyMcBeth wrote:
You might want to read the story of Noah again Noah was 500 years old when he had his kids and 600 years old when the ark was finished and the flood came. I believe anyone could build and ark in 100 years but the Bible say Noah walked with God so even better! Common sense would also say his 3 sons helped him. Familys worked together back then.
Actually my dear the bible ripped off the sumarian flood story. here read it for yourself

http://en.wikipedia.org./wiki/Utnapishtim[/quote


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Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.



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23 Aug 2006, 9:58 pm

disneyhound wrote:
TigerFire wrote:
Why can't we let this topic die. We aren't going any where. Seems like we are going in circles. No one is going to change any mind as much as I try.


You might be right; I wanted to know how Wrong Planet's population relates to religion as compared to myself. Do others possess my limited ability to accept faith, the nonsensical. Or my uneasy feelings towards organized religion. Is this an aspie trait?

No one is going to change my mind either. No one who "believes" their religion is the "truth" is likely to compromise! I am sorry this has turned into, "no my religion is right!"[/quote

I for one won't be changed but I think you are right in this, my son who is an aspie doesn't sway easily and I thank God for that cause for a while he would post on forums but he said it frustrated him too much because people would not just disagree with him but they would do it with such venom it bothered him. And after being on this forum I totally see what he was talking about, in fact it scares me a little to know that there are people that are out there that are so full of hate for others oppinions. It makes me thankful for the sheltered world I live in. lol



waterdogs
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23 Aug 2006, 10:32 pm

TigerFire wrote:
waterdogs wrote:
Bad reserch? the sumerians were the first recorded civilization on record dude. that means they were before the jews, the christains, the egyptians, the babylonians and the indians. they made the first written language, and the first spoken language and just about everything else. google the word sumerians, dumbass. im not as easily suckerd into a bull**** religion like you are especially when the jews ripped off the sumerians flood story. and god knows what else


Who cares the jews were more important. No one really cares about sumerians it wasn't there flood. It was God that created the flood and it was written down in the old testment. I wasn't sukered into anything I believe that my religion is the truth and all the others are frauds. Hope this means well it does to me because it reinforces what I believe in. I'm not a history buff nor do I care about it. I believe what I believe and nothing is going to change it. I'm stubbern as an Ass or an ox. No history lecture will change that. Please don't lecture me again.

See what I mean we aren't going any where. No one is going to believe anything we say in here so why try to convince anyone of other things. I had but as you see above there is no fighting each other with words if neither side is affected. Its has if were talking to a brick wall. In one ear and out the other.
thanks for proving my point. because the jews were the first ones to make up a flood story right? give me a break. listen if you come to me with a flood story and you are the first ones to make up such a story YOU get the credit. everyone else after you who makes up such storys and puts there own twists on them, they are the frauds.



Changeling
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23 Aug 2006, 11:09 pm

Boy, everyone sure got heated real quick on this one.

First of all, I will not make any claim to say that the Bible is right or wrong, but it does bother me quite a bit when people want to take it as "God's Word". As the point was made earlier, anything man does is flawed, and as men wrote this book (or at least "transcribed" it), it will have flaws too. Whether you believe in God or not, it's way too far of a stretch for me to assume that the Bible is perfect: too many inconsistencies, translations have been way far off the mark of the original intention, etc.

But my real beef is with people who claim to be religious and then do otherwise. For example, prominent politicians who routinely break every other Commandment (including #2, which reads "Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain", which I always interpreted as meaning "Don't do and say things in my name". Especially when it involves stealing, lying and killing other people. If God does indeed exist, He is responsible for EVERYONE on the planet, and not just those subscribing to a particular faction.

And whatever happened to "turn the other cheek" and "do unto others as you'd have them do unto you"? I've run into way too many self-styled Christians who ignore that. I don't recall Jesus telling anyone to present his point of view at the end of a gun.



V111
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24 Aug 2006, 12:13 am

Disneyhound a few thoughts on being non-religious and state and church apartness in the United States. Short answer some are not part of a church not sure how many how about making a poll ? . Yes most of theist views use feeling not logical debates. About 14 percent of the US says they are non-religious that covers agnostic, unchurched, and atheists. The First Amendment states Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion. That means not giving funds to churches to preach, fix buildings, and the US government should not being giving churches non-profit status but that's one that will take time to fix. If you believe a church you should give for that reason only. Second part states prohibiting the free exercise thereof. That means the government does not have the right to tell you what to believe or not believe on theist thoughts. Only theists thoughts that lead to actions that are illegal or lead to harm are not allowed. Some examples parents not getting medical care for their underage children. A view point from some atheists now on the subject "Organized atheism supports the right to hold religious beliefs but vigorously opposes religious behavior that is politically and socially predatory or harms innocent people." Atheist for Human Right website. Guys like waterdog and not without no reason are very mistrustful of churches.
I do not think churches will go away but the more inhumane ones are losing membership due to their fixed un nice ways. The more humane ones are doing better. The churches that both theist and atheist are not fans of are the we have to take over the earth for fill in blank all or nothing thinking ones. The we have to win 100 percent or we lose 100 percent churches. I am not saying what ones but they are not hard to find in the US
Most of the founding dad's of the US thought there was something running the show but called it Nature or that god/create/nature put thing in action and stepped back. A theist person can be in gov or a school should not use it use to help or harm churches. that means Nation days of prayer statements and being part of the meeting on those days are unconstitutional. And under god in the pledge and in god we trust should be removed from printed cash. And god is not being removed it should not have been being talked about in the first place in a public school with taxpayer funds that's what a church is for. Same thing with prayer in a school it's ok if not lead by a teacher or other government type. No that does not mean a student lead praying is ok it means a person who wants to for theist reason to prayer they can with no captive students. A bible Club with student who want to have one is ok but not a pep rally. As a human with an atheist viewpoint i still have a live and allow to live view. But some churches scare the hell of me note the pun discuss and keep debating in a civil tone loud typing rarely helps.
:-)


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TigerFire
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24 Aug 2006, 9:13 am

waterdogs wrote:
TigerFire wrote:
waterdogs wrote:
Bad reserch? the sumerians were the first recorded civilization on record dude. that means they were before the jews, the christains, the egyptians, the babylonians and the indians. they made the first written language, and the first spoken language and just about everything else. google the word sumerians, dumbass. im not as easily suckerd into a bull**** religion like you are especially when the jews ripped off the sumerians flood story. and god knows what else


Who cares the jews were more important. No one really cares about sumerians it wasn't there flood. It was God that created the flood and it was written down in the old testment. I wasn't sukered into anything I believe that my religion is the truth and all the others are frauds. Hope this means well it does to me because it reinforces what I believe in. I'm not a history buff nor do I care about it. I believe what I believe and nothing is going to change it. I'm stubbern as an Ass or an ox. No history lecture will change that. Please don't lecture me again.

See what I mean we aren't going any where. No one is going to believe anything we say in here so why try to convince anyone of other things. I had but as you see above there is no fighting each other with words if neither side is affected. Its has if were talking to a brick wall. In one ear and out the other.
thanks for proving my point. because the jews were the first ones to make up a flood story right? give me a break. listen if you come to me with a flood story and you are the first ones to make up such a story YOU get the credit. everyone else after you who makes up such storys and puts there own twists on them, they are the frauds.


You never give up to prove your point do you? The jews didn't make it up. It happened. Go to a highest mountain peak and you'll find fish. It's not world that evolution changed it is the flood. I didn't make up a neither did the jews. Look at the Bible this way its a history book. All of it is written is true. I'm not giving you a break until I have proven my point. You don't matter if you need a break or not. You got me started and I'm going to keep on rolling until you give up. No your right about all the twistes but those are called cults. My faith and belief won't change weither or not you come up with all these negative facts.


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waterdogs
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24 Aug 2006, 9:27 am

Listen dude im not trying to say you're ret*d or anything but if you believe the bible you don't know much. since the jewish people pretty much ripped off the sumerian "ideas" about the creation of man, and the flood story. its no different than what the christians and muslims did to the jewish religion. they ripped them off

i encourage you to read this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesopotamian_mythology

pay extra attention to the second paragraph:

Many storys in the sumerian religion appear homologus to storys in other middle east religions, for example the biblical account of the creation of man as well as noah's flood narrative resemble the sumerian tales very closely though fragments of the sumerian myths were written many centuries earlier than the Tanakh (old testement) and the bible.


:roll:



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24 Aug 2006, 9:50 am

waterdogs wrote:
Listen dude im not trying to say you're ret*d or anything but if you believe the bible you don't know much. since the jewish people pretty much ripped off the sumerian "ideas" about the creation of man, and the flood story. its no different than what the christians and muslims did to the jewish religion. they ripped them off

i encourage you to read this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesopotamian_mythology

pay extra attention to the second paragraph:

Many storys in the sumerian religion appear homologus to storys in other middle east religions, for example the biblical account of the creation of man as well as noah's flood narrative resemble the sumerian tales very closely though fragments of the sumerian myths were written many centuries earlier than the Tanakh (old testement) and the bible.


:roll:


As you know I'm not a history buff and I'm going to. You be a big history buff to lecture me. Look you aren't going to convince me. :P :roll:


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waterdogs
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24 Aug 2006, 9:59 am

I don't want to convince you of anything. im letting you know why i don't believe anything the bible says. because when i was a kid i had a pastor tell me all sorts of things that f****d with my mind. i just singlehandidly proved your religion to be fake and a ripoff. anyways i made my point, so i'll stop now. :D



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24 Aug 2006, 1:05 pm

ok at least you let this topic die.


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ADoyle
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24 Aug 2006, 4:20 pm

Wow, what a heated topic. Then again, that happens a lot when religion is discussed. Personally, I'm very spiritual and occasionally do go to church. My NT dad actually resented his Catholic upbringing so much, that my brother and I weren't raised in any particular church, he wanted us to have the choice he never did.

The problems I have with religion are the nutcases who either push their beliefs on others, or those who use their religion as an excuse to kill. Other than that, I have no problems with religion. I don't believe that there's one true church as every church claims it is, but all religions have something good to offer.


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