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abacacus
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23 Jan 2012, 9:45 pm

Riots will come whenever the people decide they've had enough, just like they have most other times in history.

French revolution for the modern era, anyone?


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Zeno
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23 Jan 2012, 11:06 pm

phil777 wrote:
So, sir Xeno, do you think it would be wise to start learning mandarin chinese?


Do not even try. It will take you years to get anywhere and even then you will not get very far. Despite the intended sarcasm on your part, comparing America's apocalyptic fears with the Chinese experience of societal collapse is actually a very valid and interesting endeavor. From 1800 onwards, China could be said to have embarked on a fatal decline and national weakness was stripped bare for all to see in the Opium War. But it was the Taiping Revolution, which followed the Opium War, that really drove home the message of fundamental social dislocation.

The Taiping Revolution is not something that most Westerners know much about, but it is one of the most interesting social upheavals in history. The leader was a proto-Christian character (actually went to church for a while) who believed that he was anointed by God. His ragtag army of displaced people overran China's southern capital, Nanjing, but failed to take Beijing. In their wake, the Taipings left a trail of horrendous destruction.

Because of their experience with such societal breakdowns, China's worldview is markedly different from America's. Americans have never had to deal the consequences of falling apart mostly because the country is so young. But such fractures are an endemic, and some might even say, natural part of any human body politic. If we are indeed at such a point in history, then getting prepared would make a lot of sense.



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24 Jan 2012, 8:09 pm

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2 ... s-war.html

George Soros wrote:
As anger rises, riots on the streets of American cities are inevitable. “Yes, yes, yes,” he says, almost gleefully. The response to the unrest could be more damaging than the violence itself. “It will be an excuse for cracking down and using strong-arm tactics to maintain law and order, which, carried to an extreme, could bring about a repressive political system, a society where individual liberty is much more constrained, which would be a break with the tradition of the United States.”



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24 Jan 2012, 8:18 pm

Zeno wrote:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2012/01/22/george-soros-on-the-coming-u-s-class-war.html

George Soros wrote:
As anger rises, riots on the streets of American cities are inevitable. “Yes, yes, yes,” he says, almost gleefully. The response to the unrest could be more damaging than the violence itself. “It will be an excuse for cracking down and using strong-arm tactics to maintain law and order, which, carried to an extreme, could bring about a repressive political system, a society where individual liberty is much more constrained, which would be a break with the tradition of the United States.”


Someone's going to be making money!


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Zeno
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24 Jan 2012, 9:52 pm

Social unrest in America will probably not affect financial markets much so I do not think that anyone will be profiting from it. You would need a massive tectonic displacement to have a real impact. For this reason, the Occupy movement, while annoying, actually does nothing to affect the overall economy. What the disturbances will do is accentuate the underlying aspects of society that have hitherto been suppressed, like gang activities and vagrancy. Certain parts of the country may become no go zones that can be entered only with armed guards. the falling apart will be a slow motion affair. Do not expect anything overly dramatic to happen.



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24 Jan 2012, 10:17 pm

Are you going to demand an implanted RFID when the SHTF? Might be useful when your family can't find you.


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24 Jan 2012, 10:41 pm

Zeno wrote:
Social unrest in America will probably not affect financial markets much so I do not think that anyone will be profiting from it. You would need a massive tectonic displacement to have a real impact. For this reason, the Occupy movement, while annoying, actually does nothing to affect the overall economy. What the disturbances will do is accentuate the underlying aspects of society that have hitherto been suppressed, like gang activities and vagrancy. Certain parts of the country may become no go zones that can be entered only with armed guards. the falling apart will be a slow motion affair. Do not expect anything overly dramatic to happen.


Its annoying to openly disagree with the BS going on by doing things such as protesting?......I guess we should all shut the hell up and just go along with it or else right? I don't understand how anyone could possibly support this economic/political system anymore unless they seriously live in a little bubble of bliss.


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24 Jan 2012, 11:48 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Its annoying to openly disagree with the BS going on by doing things such as protesting?......I guess we should all shut the hell up and just go along with it or else right? I don't understand how anyone could possibly support this economic/political system anymore unless they seriously live in a little bubble of bliss.


Soros's opinion is that people do not understand what is happening and I think he hit the nail on the head. No matter how hard you protest, the situation is not going to change. Especially when people simply have no idea why everything seems to be falling apart and the cracks just get wider and wider. And because they get nowhere despite putting in serious and sincere effort to raise their concerns and muster up change, the potential for violence becomes explosive.

There is a lot of talk of how 2012 might turn out to be a very violent year for America. People do want some kind of change that they can believe in and of course Obama is not it. Judging from the way the Republican primaries have gone, none of the opposition candidates inspire much confidence either.



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24 Jan 2012, 11:54 pm

Zeno wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Its annoying to openly disagree with the BS going on by doing things such as protesting?......I guess we should all shut the hell up and just go along with it or else right? I don't understand how anyone could possibly support this economic/political system anymore unless they seriously live in a little bubble of bliss.


Soros's opinion is that people do not understand what is happening and I think he hit the nail on the head. No matter how hard you protest, the situation is not going to change. Especially when people simply have no idea why everything seems to be falling apart and the cracks just get wider and wider. And because they get nowhere despite putting in serious and sincere effort to raise their concerns and muster up change, the potential for violence becomes explosive.

There is a lot of talk of how 2012 might turn out to be a very violent year for America. People do want some kind of change that they can believe in and of course Obama is not it. Judging from the way the Republican primaries have gone, none of the opposition candidates inspire much confidence either.


The situation is already changing, thing is it will probably get worse before it gets better....also I think most of them do put serious, sincere effort into raising their concerns but lets not be ridiculous protests are to raise awareness and stand up for rights, expecting the solutions to come directly out of the protest itself is ridiculous.

ending the protests would not really improve things, and keeping them going won't fix it.....but hell is everyone supposed to just go on with their daily life and hope for the best while remaining blind to the bigger picture?


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25 Jan 2012, 12:09 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
The situation is already changing, thing is it will probably get worse before it gets better....also I think most of them do put serious, sincere effort into raising their concerns but lets not be ridiculous protests are to raise awareness and stand up for rights, expecting the solutions to come directly out of the protest itself is ridiculous.

ending the protests would not really improve things, and keeping them going won't fix it.....but hell is everyone supposed to just go on with their daily life and hope for the best while remaining blind to the bigger picture?


The situation is changing, but not for the better. America's decline is permanent and maybe even terminal. Protesting about the current situation actually hurts rather than helps. Just look at the "revolutions" in Egypt and Libya, are the people better or worse for the power that the mobs there exercised? Yes, Mubarak is no longer in power and Gaddafi is dead, but Libya is turning into another Somalia and the newly elected Egyptian Parliament is a farce. But amongst the self anointed bands of virtuous beings whom we are to believe want to make this world a better place, harming American interests is something they are more than willing to do.



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25 Jan 2012, 12:32 am

Zeno wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
The situation is already changing, thing is it will probably get worse before it gets better....also I think most of them do put serious, sincere effort into raising their concerns but lets not be ridiculous protests are to raise awareness and stand up for rights, expecting the solutions to come directly out of the protest itself is ridiculous.

ending the protests would not really improve things, and keeping them going won't fix it.....but hell is everyone supposed to just go on with their daily life and hope for the best while remaining blind to the bigger picture?


The situation is changing, but not for the better. America's decline is permanent and maybe even terminal. Protesting about the current situation actually hurts rather than helps. Just look at the "revolutions" in Egypt and Libya, are the people better or worse for the power that the mobs there exercised? Yes, Mubarak is no longer in power and Gaddafi is dead, but Libya is turning into another Somalia and the newly elected Egyptian Parliament is a farce. But amongst the self anointed bands of virtuous beings whom we are to believe want to make this world a better place, harming American interests is something they are more than willing to do.


What American interests are you referring to that are being harmed? and what about interests of other countries the U.S has disregarded in their attempts at policing the world? I know things are getting worse but I don't see how protesting makes things worse things are going to sh*t with or without the protests..it will get much worse before it will ever get better if it get's better but things are pretty screwed up.


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25 Jan 2012, 2:15 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
What American interests are you referring to that are being harmed? and what about interests of other countries the U.S has disregarded in their attempts at policing the world? I know things are getting worse but I don't see how protesting makes things worse things are going to sh*t with or without the protests..it will get much worse before it will ever get better if it get's better but things are pretty screwed up.


Look at the Greeks and tell me that you think their never ending protests and riots have made Greece a better place. The situation may be bad, but agitating at a time when cohesion and unity is needed will only make it dire. Where there are clear objectives, like the Civil Rights or the Anti-War movements in the 1960s and 1970s, social activism can produce positive results. The problem with the present Anti-Capitalism movement is that no one has articulated an acceptable alternative. These people are just pissed that the good life, which they had regarded as a birthright, is no longer within reach. It is no different from children throwing a tantrum because mommy and daddy will not buy them the latest Game Boy. Unfortunately for everyone, this sort of mass rage feeds on itself and has the potential for an incredible amount of destruction. But that is how societies really reform. It is just scary not to know what comes after.



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25 Jan 2012, 11:36 am

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The situation is already changing, thing is it will probably get worse before it gets better....also I think most of them do put serious, sincere effort into raising their concerns but lets not be ridiculous protests are to raise awareness and stand up for rights, expecting the solutions to come directly out of the protest itself is ridiculous.


+1. A common accusation leveled against protestors is that they have no coherence. Economist Paul Krugman says that not even the world's top economists can fully understand what's going on and exactly what needs changing; to expect that of a lay person is ridiculous.

US equity indices are going up, domestic consumer spending up, unemployment down...things are looking up for America (so it seems, I can't quite believe it myself). Not exactly for the Eurozone, though.

If you're really, really sure that things are getting bad, you can short the market and make a killing.



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25 Jan 2012, 1:31 pm

Zeno wrote:
Social unrest in America will probably not affect financial markets much so I do not think that anyone will be profiting from it. You would need a massive tectonic displacement to have a real impact. For this reason, the Occupy movement, while annoying, actually does nothing to affect the overall economy. What the disturbances will do is accentuate the underlying aspects of society that have hitherto been suppressed, like gang activities and vagrancy. Certain parts of the country may become no go zones that can be entered only with armed guards. the falling apart will be a slow motion affair. Do not expect anything overly dramatic to happen.


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5agVi-lIvM[/youtube]

Some people are going to be making a lot of money, and the rest will get the razz.


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Sweetleaf
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25 Jan 2012, 1:49 pm

Zeno wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
What American interests are you referring to that are being harmed? and what about interests of other countries the U.S has disregarded in their attempts at policing the world? I know things are getting worse but I don't see how protesting makes things worse things are going to sh*t with or without the protests..it will get much worse before it will ever get better if it get's better but things are pretty screwed up.


Look at the Greeks and tell me that you think their never ending protests and riots have made Greece a better place. The situation may be bad, but agitating at a time when cohesion and unity is needed will only make it dire. Where there are clear objectives, like the Civil Rights or the Anti-War movements in the 1960s and 1970s, social activism can produce positive results. The problem with the present Anti-Capitalism movement is that no one has articulated an acceptable alternative. These people are just pissed that the good life, which they had regarded as a birthright, is no longer within reach. It is no different from children throwing a tantrum because mommy and daddy will not buy them the latest Game Boy. Unfortunately for everyone, this sort of mass rage feeds on itself and has the potential for an incredible amount of destruction. But that is how societies really reform. It is just scary not to know what comes after.


Ok first of riots and protests are not the same thing and since I was discussing protests I will stick to that topic. Also, did you read anything I posted I already said I do not think the protests will make things 'better' it's too late for things to get better in this country or so it seems so chances are it has to get worse before it gets better. But I also don't see what harm its doing.

Also there are lots of alternatives to capitalism, but people are blind also I do not think most of the protestors veiw corporate america as 'the good life.' so its not jealousy at all. Its more like a small group of individuals referred to as the 1%(maybe that is not the exact percentage but its what that refers to) own or control most of the worlds wealth and resources. what is so wrong about protesting against things like that.....a large majority of people are being exploited by this screwed up system and so they have every reason to protest.

I know my reason for going to the Occupy march I went to was certainly nothing like throwing a tantrum because mommy and daddy will not buy the latest game boy..........that's about the stupidest comparison I've ever seen and only proves you have no clue what you're talking about.


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