Unemployment benefits cut entirely in Arizona

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CaptainTrips222
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14 Jun 2011, 10:36 pm

Now thousands have no cash at ALL. Steeling myself for sharp rise in theft, robberies, and a TRAGIC slew of suicides. :pale:



John_Browning
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14 Jun 2011, 11:11 pm

Just the 20 week extension lapsed, which affects 15,000 people. The local phoenix ABC news site portrays the situation as a lot of horse trading and private agendas that they couldn't agree on, and that governor Brewer tried to get it passed. Despite being a liberal news source, they didn't give an exact number but they made it sound like very few politicians were out for social Darwinism. They will probably take the matter up again sometime.

http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/now_at_nine/arizona-legislature-adjourns-without-unemployment-vote%2C-what-do-you-have-to-say


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Merculangelo
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15 Jun 2011, 12:41 am

I heard of a couple suicides/suicide events recently related to home foreclosures in Phoenix.



Dark_Lord_2008
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15 Jun 2011, 1:08 am

Social Darwinism combined with Neo-Fascism and campaigning survival of the fittest. Return to the law of the jungle and an explosion in crime rates and lawlessness. Policing the streets will get a lot tougher as more crime gangs run rampant on the streets.
America is supposed to be a civilised country and the Neo-Fascist governments cut social security benefits off to the most disadvantaged members of society.



John_Browning
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15 Jun 2011, 3:32 am

Dark_Lord_2008 wrote:
America is supposed to be a civilised country and the Neo-Fascist governments cut social security benefits off to the most disadvantaged members of society.

Uhhhhhhhh.........what??????????? :?


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Dark_Lord_2008
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15 Jun 2011, 6:38 am

Social security payments for people in need and universal health care for everyone who needs it. I am so glad I do not live in the United States of America the land of hypocrisy.



ruveyn
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15 Jun 2011, 12:23 pm

Dark_Lord_2008 wrote:
Social security payments for people in need and universal health care for everyone who needs it. I am so glad I do not live in the United States of America the land of hypocrisy.


All of us have needs. Should those who have means become slaves to those who have needs?

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CaptainTrips222
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15 Jun 2011, 3:52 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Dark_Lord_2008 wrote:
Social security payments for people in need and universal health care for everyone who needs it. I am so glad I do not live in the United States of America the land of hypocrisy.


All of us have needs. Should those who have means become slaves to those who have needs?

ruveyn


And those who don't have the means to meet their needs should simply go without?



androbot2084
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15 Jun 2011, 7:28 pm

When Moses lead the Hebrew slaves into the promised land he levied a tithe which is a ten percent tax and in exchange everyone got free health care from the Priests and the Rabbis. Now the religious right are calling Moses a slave driver because the rich had to pay more for health care than the poor?



ruveyn
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15 Jun 2011, 9:06 pm

CaptainTrips222 wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Dark_Lord_2008 wrote:
Social security payments for people in need and universal health care for everyone who needs it. I am so glad I do not live in the United States of America the land of hypocrisy.


All of us have needs. Should those who have means become slaves to those who have needs?

ruveyn


And those who don't have the means to meet their needs should simply go without?


Help to the needy should be voluntary, not compelled by threat of prison or by taxation which seizes the private assets of individuals against their will.

Have you ever heard of charity? That is voluntary redistribution of income and assets.

And it isn't only about money. What about people who require blood transfusions. Should people with healthy blood be bled by force of law to provide blood to those who need it? If you think support of the needy should be by force of law (which is to say at gunpoint or threat of jail) then you should logically favor taken blood from those who can spare it and giving the blood to those who need it.

ruveyn



androbot2084
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15 Jun 2011, 9:13 pm

Rich people who don't want to pay taxes so that everyone can have health insurance are thieves.



CaptainTrips222
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15 Jun 2011, 10:50 pm

ruveyn wrote:
CaptainTrips222 wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Dark_Lord_2008 wrote:
Social security payments for people in need and universal health care for everyone who needs it. I am so glad I do not live in the United States of America the land of hypocrisy.


All of us have needs. Should those who have means become slaves to those who have needs?

ruveyn


And those who don't have the means to meet their needs should simply go without?


Help to the needy should be voluntary, not compelled by threat of prison or by taxation which seizes the private assets of individuals against their will.

Have you ever heard of charity? That is voluntary redistribution of income and assets.

And it isn't only about money. What about people who require blood transfusions. Should people with healthy blood be bled by force of law to provide blood to those who need it? If you think support of the needy should be by force of law (which is to say at gunpoint or threat of jail) then you should logically favor taken blood from those who can spare it and giving the blood to those who need it.

ruveyn


No, people shouldn't be bled, nor forced to donate organs. They don't have to give up food either. The funds are to take care of basic needs.

You can't count on charity to take care of the those who cannot take care of themselves. You pay into the system not only for those who cannot take care of themselves, but for the eventuality that YOU find yourself physically/psychologically unable to make ends meet.



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16 Jun 2011, 1:07 am

Unemployment insurance is paid out of earnings. In general, 26 weeks.

That gives six months to find a job. Extending the benifits causes the State to borrow from the Fed, and when things are better, the employers in the State are charged a higher rate to pay it back.

Extended benefits are a tax increase on employers. At 99 weeks, employees are collecting four times the job insurance they paid for, and the cost is born by the employed, through their employers.

The unemployed must seek work, but they do not have to take a job that pays less than their last. A $20 and hour construction worker does not have to take a $10 an hour warehouse job. OK for 26 weeks, but 99? Construction is not coming back.

So what do you do? Pay the ablebodied unemployed until the economy recovers, now projected for 2020. That cost comes directly from the pay of the working population.

By that logic, rents should be raised to pay the mortgages of people who bought houses that are now worth less than the mortgage.

Construction pays because it is high risk. Working outdoors, with tools and machinery, on roofs, seasonal, and often having to relocate, to follow the jobs. Oilfield work is like that. It also has downturns and booms.

People chose risk, job or house purchase, just as investors buy stock that some goes up, some down. Risk can payoff, or you can lose everything.

Try to buy down market insurance. Gaming insurance in Vegas.

You can hedge your bets, go long and short on a stock, but risk is the system.

If you pay people to not work, they will. Who pays? Those who work.

Now a social safety net is needed, children must eat, the injured and disabled need support, the old who kept this running deserve to retire.

Ablebodied workers who chose boom and bust fields for the high return, real estate speculators who flipped houses, people who bought hot stocks on margin, were rolling the dice.

What about banks who have foreclosed on millions of houses, now worth half of what they loaned? Even listing them on the books at current value they would be bankrupt. Selling them, the FDIC would come and close the bank, and the stockholders lose everything.

All social costs come from people who work. Government collects the money, wastes half, borrows more, and is uneven in it's support of the General Welfare of the Citizens. They "borrow" from the money supply, making it worth less.

Who should pay for someone who need medical care, a heart, lung, liver and kidney, and a sex change, breasts, who is 75 and serving a triple life sentence?

Should we have free medical care for all, or free education for all who can maintain a "B'". There is not enough money for both.

Should current workers pay for endless unemployment, while only getting 26 weeks if they lose their job. If you work for a year or ten, you get the same amount, for the same time. If you never collect, you pay for those who get 99 weeks.

Working people are the base of this pyramid, they support themselves and everyone else. Adding ten million ablebodied unemployed to their support list is too much.



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16 Jun 2011, 2:40 am

ruveyn wrote:
CaptainTrips222 wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Dark_Lord_2008 wrote:
Social security payments for people in need and universal health care for everyone who needs it. I am so glad I do not live in the United States of America the land of hypocrisy.


All of us have needs. Should those who have means become slaves to those who have needs?

ruveyn


And those who don't have the means to meet their needs should simply go without?


Help to the needy should be voluntary, not compelled by threat of prison or by taxation which seizes the private assets of individuals against their will.

Have you ever heard of charity? That is voluntary redistribution of income and assets.

And it isn't only about money. What about people who require blood transfusions. Should people with healthy blood be bled by force of law to provide blood to those who need it? If you think support of the needy should be by force of law (which is to say at gunpoint or threat of jail) then you should logically favor taken blood from those who can spare it and giving the blood to those who need it.

ruveyn


As a matter of fact...
But seriously, we are a country that boasts of its' Judeo-Christian heritage. Well, that includes altruism for those who have less, or don't have at all. To just let people go and die because they can't by circumstance afford food or medical care is just heartless. It's about time to realize that the morality behind the teachings of Christianity and Judaism goes beyond condemning gays and making the rich fat.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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16 Jun 2011, 3:28 pm

Fact of life, everything dies.

Fact of economics, people put themselves first.

Most of Medicare is spent on the last six months of life, where the medical services have a blank check.

Fact of life, needs are always greater than supply.

Some are reasonable, food stamps for the low income lets everyone eat.

26 weeks of unemployment is enough. After that, if the economy is the problem, start a Federal support system for workers displaced by Federal programs, like NAFTA, that send jobs and factories out of the country.

Tacking it on to worker supported unemployment is like funding universal health care, worldwide, and charging it to people are paying for their own medical insurance.

Insurance has limits, prior conditions, obese people who drink and smoke, with family histories of expensive conditions, want to pay the same rate as young healthy people. They also want no cap on the total cost.

This is looting the private insurance market on behalf of health services corporations. To make the take even larger, health insurance becomes mandatory. This does not help the few percent with medical problems, still incurable, it is big time welfare for drug companies and hospital corporations.

The majority pay more and get less. The money does not go for research for medical knowledge, It goes for treatments known to not work, the people die just as fast, but lots of money is transferred from private insurance pools to corporations with friends in Congress.

Now the people who pay for medical insurance who have minor and not profitable conditions are dropped to the bottom of the list for medical services. The corporations that run health care wait till it progresses to something profitable.

Fact of life, corporations put the bottom line first.

When I insure my car, house, life, those who do not do not get the same payoff. 400 drug dealers get killed every year in New Orleans, Should all life insurance be made to pay out double indemnity for their deaths?

People buy private disability insurance. Should that pool be made to pay Social Security disability claims?

When the cost of a medical treatment, heart transplant, exceeds lifetime income, should all defective hearts be replaced? Where will the heart supply come from, free motorcycles? New Orleans does respond to deaths quickly, ices down the body, and harvests everything, before notifying next of kin.

The government is in the organ business. They supply medical corporations. Universal health care expands the market for a limited supply of organs, which drives up the price.

And you worried about the Military/Industrial complex.