Unemployment benefits cut entirely in Arizona

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Aldran
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19 Jun 2011, 2:52 pm

ruveyn wrote:
androbot2084 wrote:
There is a lot Arizona covld do to help the vnemployed bvt the rich conservatives covld care less . Rich people think that the vnemployed don't want to work even thovgh it is impossible to find a job becavse of the bad economy.


If it were impossible to get a job the unemployment rate would be 100 percent.

ruveyn


I could actually point two things out:
1: Unemployment numbers for the nation come from unemployment offices, which only count the people currently ON unemployment, and though yes there were alot of people that got extended benefits for up to 99 weeks or w/e the cap was set for at the time, there were before, were some then, and have been alot since, that were only on it for 26 weeks, and after that they're just left to wander through w/e they can scrape together to call their life without benefit of even being included in the "Unemployment statistic", so the # of unemployed is actually higher then the the reported "Unemployment rate".....

2: Just because alot of people did lose their jobs before the recession hit doesn't mean that everyone lost their jobs.... So even though it would be an absolute tragedy if 50% of the nation was unemployed, the bigger issue at stake here is the rate of job creation. If 90% of the nation is employed (We'll just say 270 Million people), and there are only a total of 271 Million jobs available, life is pretty rough for the remaining 29 Million people. Yes, it can be impossible to find a job even though the majority is employed. Unemployment is a balancing act of keeping Turn Over down, and Raising Job Creation, and its never easy and always tricky. I think more-so at this point in time.

@Everyone else. The problem isn't solely an issue of "Rich vs Poor". Poor people could help each other out more by doing simple things like networking and trying to help each other. But I agree that the single biggest obstacle of reform atm is the "gimme gimme" attitude shared by most people, most notably those with money to horde. There are more US Treasury notes available now then at any time previously in history, and were just supposed to accept that there are also more going jobless and presumably hungry (I have yet to see any information on this, if you have some, please feel free to post it. Though I have no idea how it could be accurately collected)?

Further, Taxing business' for any reasons is a dumb idea. It just gets passed onto the employees most directly, and the client more indirectly. We've had 11 years now of Trickle Down theory, and its total BS, just like almost every Liberal and Middle Ground Economist you care to name in the Nation (And some outside) said 11 years ago when Bush put it forward as his proposed Budget Plan.... I almost s**t a brick when Obama continued it for another 2 years, I can only imagine hes trying to be re-elected..... And by the way, by this Im reffering to the fact that the top 2% were taxed ~70% of their earnings from the early 20th century up to ~ the Bush administration. It varied at different times for alot of different reasons, but Bush's Plan and Actions lowered that down to ~40%..... the loss of 30% of an annual income of $500 Million-$2Billion x the roughly 2Million people that earn that is a pretty hefty blow to any economy. Particularly after an insane Government Spending spree, IE add the cost of 2 wars totaling roughly 10+ Trillion Dollars, and Heavily Lessened Controls on Business' (Again /salute Bush), which led to things like more outsourcing (Its not NAFTA thats killing our jobs btw. You're not speaking to Mexicans when you call a companies Customer Service line, you're speaking to Indians or Phillipino's usually. Mexicans aren't going to college (Drug wars have that affect on nations, getting shot at while in Kindergarten isn't conducive to wanting to continue with higher education), Chinese and Indians are, hence they're designing and building more then we are now), and morddenle importantly, less oversight on things like, you guessed it, financial institutions..... Bush was barely 6 months out of office and we suddenly had 4 Major Embezzlement/Fraud cases sitting before Congressional Grand Juries? Because Stealing from your business always helps an economy grow right? ........

Anyway, the problems were facing are alot bigger and more complex then any one person here probably knows (This is the point of my post, including the history). If you really want to see improvement, VOTE. PICK who you vote for VERY carefully. Read up about them, use that google engine for something besides porn, Facebook, and/or Blogs. Yes, there are problems with the two party system, but short of actual revolution to get it changed, its not going nowhere (A:I doubt many of you would really want to do that, and B;Apathy never improved anything for the apathetic), so pick the one you think has the GREATEST ability to do what you want. Otherwise the guy you hate because he doesn't want to do anything you want is gonna get elected, and screw things up further for you. Yes, the Electorate has the final say in PRESIDENTIAL elections, but if you read up some history, they've *almost* never gone against the majority (50+1 %), and they've NEVER gone against a Landslide (That... Ive ever found anyway).....

Thank you for reading if you have



androbot2084
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19 Jun 2011, 3:04 pm

Life is especially hell for the autistic. I get fired from literally hundreds of jobs so I depend on jobs being readilly available just in order to survive. Now adays I can't afford to lose even one job.



techn0teen
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24 Jun 2011, 11:01 am

ruveyn wrote:
androbot2084 wrote:
There is a lot Arizona covld do to help the vnemployed bvt the rich conservatives covld care less . Rich people think that the vnemployed don't want to work even thovgh it is impossible to find a job becavse of the bad economy.


If it were impossible to get a job the unemployment rate would be 100 percent.

ruveyn


It is almost impossible to get a job for those who are unemployed. The key word is unemployed.

Let me create a condition similar to the Great Recession. For example, if the country lost 500,000 jobs in a year but only created 23,000 jobs as part of the recovery then that means a person has 1/25 chance of being employed or 4% chance. Or, in other words, a person is not going to find employment.

Most people don't understand that most of those jobs created are jobs which require years of training. A person fresh out of a manufacturing plant has basically zero chance.

The unemployment rate is probably much higher than we are lead to believe as we only count the unemployed based on how many people are on unemployment. When the lifeline is cut off and we give people no opportunity to provide for themselves, it is pretty f'd up. It is one of the reasons that legal tender is meaningless if you have no opportunity to earn it.



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25 Jun 2011, 12:02 am

Dark_Lord_2008 wrote:
Social security payments for people in need and universal health care for everyone who needs it. I am so glad I do not live in the United States of America the land of hypocrisy.


I'm glad also.



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25 Jun 2011, 8:43 am

techn0teen wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
androbot2084 wrote:
There is a lot Arizona covld do to help the vnemployed bvt the rich conservatives covld care less . Rich people think that the vnemployed don't want to work even thovgh it is impossible to find a job becavse of the bad economy.


If it were impossible to get a job the unemployment rate would be 100 percent.

ruveyn


It is almost impossible to get a job for those who are unemployed. The key word is unemployed.

.


What you are saying is the re-employment rate is low. Perhaps you ought to work on saying what you mean and meaning what you say.

ruveyn



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25 Jun 2011, 9:24 am

They cut unemployment benifits in New York state too. On July 11th I think they will bring down extended benifits down to 13 weeks.

Dark_Lord_2008 wrote:
Social security payments for people in need and universal health care for everyone who needs it. I am so glad I do not live in the United States of America the land of hypocrisy.


I always get a kick out of non-American people who make fun of the good old USA when something bad happens here. They are like the guys with little dicks in the locker room who can't wait to see the guy with a big penis to screw up or get in trouble so they can feel better about themselves and their tiny dicks. It is like some form of penis envey but with countries. :wink: :lol: :P

My father grew up in War West Virginia a small dirt poor coal mining town in the middle of no where. He had nothing growing up so he took a chance to move east where the jobs were at the time. He worked double shifts and saved his money he was use to being poor so he did not need flashy things to get by. He invested his money into rental properties and was also able to purchase 94 acres of land for gardening and hunting for recreation. I would like to see someone with same finacially poor status do the same in anyother country with ease my father did. My friend Max's dad came to this country with nothing he was a refugee from the war in Lebanon. He did the same as my father but he barely spoke the langauge he just worked hard and saved his money now his one son in a high school teacher and the other is a lawyer. How well do muslim refugees do in your country. Oh thats right you guys force them into ghettos then act suprise when they riot against your governments. :wink: :P


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techn0teen
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25 Jun 2011, 7:23 pm

Quote:
Perhaps you ought to work on saying what you mean and meaning what you say.


You don't have to insult me, ruveyn. I don't appreciate it, and it doesn't make your argument any stronger. It just puts me down and prevents us from having a civil discussion. If my reasoning is incorrect, I will accept that and correct myself.

Please don't attack me. Attack my reasoning.

Quote:
It is almost impossible to get a job for those who are unemployed. The key word is unemployed.


What you are saying is the re-employment rate is low.

ruveyn[/quote]

No. That's not what I am saying. Because, to be considered unemployed you must also be actively searching for a job. It doesn't matter whether it is your first job or a new job to make up you being laid off from. You are considered unemployed if you don't have a job and are looking for one.

It is almost impossible to get a job for those who are unemployed. That's what I meant, and I clearly stated that in what you have quoted.

ruveyn wrote:
androbot2084 wrote:
Rich people think that the vnemployed don't want to work even thovgh it is impossible to find a job becavse of the bad economy.


If it were impossible to get a job the unemployment rate would be 100 percent.

ruveyn


Here, you say that if it were impossible the unemployment rate would be 100 percent but androbot only meant this in the context of the unemployed.

Did you mean that if it were impossible to get a job then the unemployed would have 0% of finding a job or did you just mean America as a whole even the people who are already steadily employed?

You insult me by saying "Perhaps you ought to work on saying what you mean and meaning what you say" when it is difficult to see what you meant in that statement. That's not fair and is uncalled for. If I misunderstood fine but miscommunication goes both ways not just one.



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25 Jun 2011, 7:31 pm

androbot2084 wrote:
Rich people who don't want to pay taxes so that everyone can have health insurance are thieves.

Wrong.

People who don't want to pay taxes are merely selfish with what they already own.

Thieves are people who steal what someone else already owns ... like the poor stealing from those who don't want to pay taxes.

All religious nonsense aside, what I own is mine, to do with as I please. If I do not share it, that does not make me a thief.


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25 Jun 2011, 7:55 pm

Fnord wrote:
androbot2084 wrote:
Rich people who don't want to pay taxes so that everyone can have health insurance are thieves.

Wrong.

People who don't want to pay taxes are merely selfish with what they already own.

Thieves are people who steal what someone else already owns ... like the poor stealing from those who don't want to pay taxes.

All religious nonsense aside, what I own is mine, to do with as I please. If I do not share it, that does not make me a thief.


Unless the collective We deems that you do indeed have to share what you have for the greater good of us all. Then you go to jail for tax evasion if you don't comply. Beside, you still get to keep most of what you own, and can be selfish with that.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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25 Jun 2011, 10:00 pm

The reason why we have laws against stealing is because it is modeled after one of the ten commandments "Thou shalt not steal". However in ancient Israel it was required that everyone pay a ten percent tax to the Levitical priesthood and in exchange everyone got healthcare. But the Libertarian party says that these priests were all a bunch of thieves because they promoted mandatory taxation for healthcare.



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25 Jun 2011, 10:45 pm

androbot2084 wrote:
The reason why we have laws against stealing is because it is modeled after one of the ten commandments "Thou shalt not steal". However in ancient Israel it was required that everyone pay a ten percent tax to the Levitical priesthood and in exchange everyone got healthcare. But the Libertarian party says that these priests were all a bunch of thieves because they promoted mandatory taxation for healthcare.

The Hebrew system spent more money on patients and medical staff than bureaucracy, and it's organization didn't look like a mislabeled schematic for an astromech driod.
Keep in mind that each one of those dots is a whole bureaucracy unto itself with it's own huge network of offices policies and procedures.

Image


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25 Jun 2011, 11:02 pm

John_Browning wrote:
androbot2084 wrote:
The reason why we have laws against stealing is because it is modeled after one of the ten commandments "Thou shalt not steal". However in ancient Israel it was required that everyone pay a ten percent tax to the Levitical priesthood and in exchange everyone got healthcare. But the Libertarian party says that these priests were all a bunch of thieves because they promoted mandatory taxation for healthcare.

The Hebrew system spent more money on patients and medical staff than bureaucracy, and it's organization didn't look like a mislabeled schematic for an astromech driod.
Keep in mind that each one of those dots is a whole bureaucracy unto itself with it's own huge network of offices policies and procedures.

Image


Things get more complicated as the world goes on. I'm sure people in Old Testament times bitched about the Levitical law being too complicated.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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25 Jun 2011, 11:27 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Fnord wrote:
androbot2084 wrote:
Rich people who don't want to pay taxes so that everyone can have health insurance are thieves.

Wrong. People who don't want to pay taxes are merely selfish with what they already own. Thieves are people who steal what someone else already owns ... like the poor stealing from those who don't want to pay taxes. All religious nonsense aside, what I own is mine, to do with as I please. If I do not share it, that does not make me a thief.

Unless the collective We deems that you do indeed have to share what you have for the greater good of us all. Then you go to jail for tax evasion if you don't comply. Beside, you still get to keep most of what you own, and can be selfish with that.

Sorry, kid, but I already have a CPA scoping out every possible loophole to let me get a refund each year, and according to the law, it's mine, all mine.

The collective WE can go hang itself.


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25 Jun 2011, 11:33 pm

Fnord wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Fnord wrote:
androbot2084 wrote:
Rich people who don't want to pay taxes so that everyone can have health insurance are thieves.

Wrong. People who don't want to pay taxes are merely selfish with what they already own. Thieves are people who steal what someone else already owns ... like the poor stealing from those who don't want to pay taxes. All religious nonsense aside, what I own is mine, to do with as I please. If I do not share it, that does not make me a thief.

Unless the collective We deems that you do indeed have to share what you have for the greater good of us all. Then you go to jail for tax evasion if you don't comply. Beside, you still get to keep most of what you own, and can be selfish with that.

Sorry, kid, but I already have a CPA scoping out every possible loophole to let me get a refund each year, and according to the law, it's mine, all mine.

The collective WE can go hang itself.


Y'know, if you look on my profile, you'll easily see that I'm forty five years old. Just about the only person here on this forum who can call me kid is old man ruveyn.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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26 Jun 2011, 11:05 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

Y'know, if you look on my profile, you'll easily see that I'm forty five years old. Just about the only person here on this forum who can call me kid is old man ruveyn.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


And the ancient and venerable Sand who is in his eighties.

ruveyn