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pensieve
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15 Jun 2011, 8:24 pm

Mostly true for me except this:

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Myth #8 – Introverts are aloof nerds.
Introverts are people who primarily look inward, paying close attention to their thoughts and emotions. It’s not that they are incapable of paying attention to what is going on around them, it’s just that their inner world is much more stimulating and rewarding to them.


I actually am incapable of paying attention to what is going around me, it's far too overstimulating. And I need to focus on just one thing, like a fork on the table.

I think I am a thrill seeker too but I'm so afraid of change that I won't do it. But I want action, excitement and adventure and all that.

Oh, and I do pretty much hate people. God they're ignorant, loud and annoying. The only person I got along with was a conspiracy theorist who ended up being annoying by being so gullible. People usually do get on my nerves in some way. I mean I like my friend but we just talk crap to each other and I can never really have a deep and meaningful conversation with her.


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obichris
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15 Jun 2011, 8:52 pm

Phonic wrote:
It seems a lot of these myths are actually true of me.

Am i alone?


No. In almost every example the myth is what people think of me and the argument is similar to how I feel and would like people to understand.



Mdyar
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16 Jun 2011, 12:57 am

Introversion has many strengths.

Many scientists and engineers come from these ranks:

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To INTJs, authority based on position, rank, title, or publication has absolutely no force.

INTJs are perfectionists, with a seemingly endless capacity for improving upon anything that takes their interest. What prevents them from becoming chronically bogged down in this pursuit of perfection is the pragmatism so characteristic of the type: INTJs apply (often ruthlessly) the criterion "Does it work?" to everything from their own research efforts to the prevailing social norms. This in turn produces an unusual independence of mind, freeing the INTJ from the constraints of authority, convention, or sentiment for its own sake.

INTJs know what they know, and perhaps still more importantly, they know what they don't know.
The INTJs live in an introspective reality, focusing on possibilities, using thinking in the form of emperical logic, and preferring that events and people serve some positive use.

INTJs do, however, tend to conform to rules, if they are useful, not because they believe in them, or because they make sense, but because of their unique view of reality. They are the supreme pragmatists, who see reality as something which is quite arbitrary and made up.

INTJs can be very single minded at times; this can be either a weakness or a strength in their careers, for they can ignore the points of view and wishes of others. INTJs usually rise to positions of responsibility, for they work long and hard and are steady in their pursuit of goals, sparing neither time nor effort on their part of that of their colleagues and employees.

Fellow workers of INTJs often feel as if the INTJ can see right through them, and often believe that the INTJ finds them wanting. This tendancy of people to feel transparent in the presence of the INTJ often results in relationships which have psychological distance.

.....many INTJs do not readily grasp the social rituals; for instance, they tend to have little patience and less understanding of such things as small talk and flirtation (which most types consider half the fun of a relationship). To complicate matters, INTJs are usually extremely private people, and can often be naturally impassive as well, which makes them easy to misread and misunderstand. Perhaps the most fundamental problem, however, is that INTJs really want people to make sense. This sometimes results in a peculiar naivete', paralleling that of many Fs -- only instead of expecting inexhaustible affection and empathy from a romantic relationship, the INTJ will expect inexhaustible reasonability and directness.
Probably the strongest INTJ assets in the interpersonal area are their intuitive abilities and their willingness to "work at" a relationship. Although as Ts they do not always have the kind of natural empathy that many Fs do, the Intuitive function can often act as a good substitute by synthesizing the probable meanings behind such things as tone of voice, turn of phrase, and facial expression. This ability can then be honed and directed by consistent, repeated efforts to understand and support those they care about, and those relationships which ultimately do become established with an INTJ tend to be characterized by their robustness, stability, and good communications.


link : http://www.davidmarkley.com/personality/intj.htm



Kon
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16 Jun 2011, 1:48 am

Mdyar wrote:
Introversion has many strengths. Many scientists and engineers come from these ranks:


I always come out as an INTJ but even though I can relate to some of those traits, I can barely take care of myself due to performance anxiety/sensory issues. So I'm kind of skeptical of this part: INTJs usually rise to positions of responsibility. It kind of made me laugh. I actually hate responsibility. The only person I want to be responsible for is myself, I think.



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16 Jun 2011, 3:05 am

aghogday wrote:
I have an extremely hard time with the idea of "neurotypical" as opposed to people that have a diagnosis on the Autism Spectrum. In my opinion all humans are neurodiverse with elements of disability and giftedness. Science seems to support this suggestion.


I believe neurodiversity explicitly includes neurotypicality as a possible set of expressions of neurodiversity.



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16 Jun 2011, 7:01 am

Kon wrote:
Mdyar wrote:
Introversion has many strengths. Many scientists and engineers come from these ranks:


I always come out as an INTJ but even though I can relate to some of those traits, I can barely take care of myself due to performance anxiety/sensory issues. So I'm kind of skeptical of this part: INTJs usually rise to positions of responsibility. It kind of made me laugh. I actually hate responsibility. The only person I want to be responsible for is myself, I think.


Yeah, it's definitely a different dynamic when you add in executive dysfunction and, anxiety,etc.

They ( stereotype) are dedicated to the cause, and their work ethic or diligence, makes many/some(?) rise. I'm aware of another INTJ, that is not put him into any team positions - they set him alone, to work alone, and he is content with that. The dynamic doesn't take.

I'd imagine an "unimpaired introvert" - INTJ - would falter under many "conditions" - just my intuition here.



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16 Jun 2011, 2:35 pm

Verdandi wrote:
aghogday wrote:
I have an extremely hard time with the idea of "neurotypical" as opposed to people that have a diagnosis on the Autism Spectrum. In my opinion all humans are neurodiverse with elements of disability and giftedness. Science seems to support this suggestion.


I believe neurodiversity explicitly includes neurotypicality as a possible set of expressions of neurodiversity.


Quote:
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:

Neurodiversity is an idea which asserts that atypical (neurodivergent) neurological development is a normal human difference that is to be recognized and respected as any other human variation.[1] Differences may arise in ways of processing information, including language, sound, images, light, texture, taste, or movement. The concept of neurodiversity is embraced by some autistic individuals and people with related conditions. Some groups apply the concept of neurodiversity to conditions potentially unrelated (or non-concomitant) to autism such as bipolar disorder, ADHD,[2] schizophrenia,[3] circadian rhythm disorders, developmental speech disorders, Parkinson's disease, dyslexia, and dyspraxia.[2]


It implies that neurological and psychological disabilities are a normal human difference. And on many Neurodiversity websites neurotypicality is satirically portrayed as an abnormality.

In my opinion studies that indicate that introversion and extroversion have a biological component that can be influenced by, environment, culture, stress, health, and a thousand other factors is evidence that there truly is no such thing as neurotypicality, only people that are able to do a balancing act with their unique mix of life ingredients that work and those that cannot keep that balance with their unique mix of life ingredients.

A diagnosis of any psychological condition is normally the result of not being able to achieve a balance in what is required to function in life. Unfortunately those requirements are becoming more stressful and it becomes harder for some to cope than others. It would be easier for everyone to cope if our world wasn't so complicated, but it doesn't look like that is happening anytime soon.



AardvarkGoodSwimmer
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16 Jun 2011, 3:41 pm

obichris wrote:
. . . On a related note, the DSM-V is looking to make Introversion, called Detachment, one of six dimensional trait domains for diagnosis of personality disorders. This will lead to individualized diagnosis of PDs and no more PD-NOS catch-all. . .

Now, I tend not to like this, where mental health professionals (cough, cough) label and "pathologize" something that is in fact part of the normal range of human experience.

Now, I do like the part where we look at six dimensions. It reminds us that human beings vary in a number of ways, that "different" is probably more common than straight, down-the-middle normal. That part is good news. :D



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16 Jun 2011, 4:47 pm

Good article. Interesting discussion. Thanks everybody.


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16 Jun 2011, 5:13 pm

Great posts in the thread.

Introversion awry:
I can be a 'quite shy' person in social settings, and can just feel plain embarrassed in these social environments. I believe I'm this "extra shy" due to dopamine issues (ADD). I cycle between good and poor executive functioning, depending on sleep and stress - my gate changes and my movements are "jerky"-- maybe a little like a mild Parkinson's condition- (low dopamine)- for an analogy. Dopamine and nor -epinephrine are impaired in ADD. I can move into a more confident mode when doing better, implicating a shift in neurotransmitters- (gate goes back to normal).

Too much dopamine runs in the family, though:
My grandmother ( and others) had schizophrenia, and the last I heard, this condition generates too much dopamine, antagonising serotonin receptors with this glut.

Just to add.



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16 Jun 2011, 8:02 pm

Mdyar wrote:
Great posts in the thread.

Introversion awry:
I can be a 'quite shy' person in social settings, and can just feel plain embarrassed in these social environments. I believe I'm this "extra shy" due to dopamine issues (ADD). I cycle between good and poor executive functioning, depending on sleep and stress - my gate changes and my movements are "jerky"-- maybe a little like a mild Parkinson's condition- (low dopamine)- for an analogy. Dopamine and nor -epinephrine are impaired in ADD. I can move into a more confident mode when doing better, implicating a shift in neurotransmitters- (gate goes back to normal).

Too much dopamine runs in the family, though:
My grandmother ( and others) had schizophrenia, and the last I heard, this condition generates too much dopamine, antagonising serotonin receptors with this glut.

Just to add.


Exercise helped keep it all in order for me; increasing dopamine, serotonin, epinephrine, oxytocin, and natural endorphins; while burning off stress hormones. I think it is nature's own natural reward, that kept us moving thousands of years in the search for food. I would imagine a more sedentary way of life, impacts our biological inclinations.



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16 Jun 2011, 8:38 pm

aghogday wrote:
Mdyar wrote:
Great posts in the thread.

Introversion awry:
I can be a 'quite shy' person in social settings, and can just feel plain embarrassed in these social environments. I believe I'm this "extra shy" due to dopamine issues (ADD). I cycle between good and poor executive functioning, depending on sleep and stress - my gate changes and my movements are "jerky"-- maybe a little like a mild Parkinson's condition- (low dopamine)- for an analogy. Dopamine and nor -epinephrine are impaired in ADD. I can move into a more confident mode when doing better, implicating a shift in neurotransmitters- (gate goes back to normal).

Too much dopamine runs in the family, though:
My grandmother ( and others) had schizophrenia, and the last I heard, this condition generates too much dopamine, antagonising serotonin receptors with this glut.

Just to add.


Exercise helped keep it all in order for me; increasing dopamine, serotonin, epinephrine, oxytocin, and natural endorphins; while burning off stress hormones. I think it is nature's own natural reward, that kept us moving thousands of years in the search for food. I would imagine a more sedentary way of life, impacts our biological inclinations.


That is a helpful point. I've noticed this, and thanks for the reminder.



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16 Jun 2011, 9:01 pm

Mdyar wrote:
aghogday wrote:
Mdyar wrote:
Great posts in the thread.

Introversion awry:
I can be a 'quite shy' person in social settings, and can just feel plain embarrassed in these social environments. I believe I'm this "extra shy" due to dopamine issues (ADD). I cycle between good and poor executive functioning, depending on sleep and stress - my gate changes and my movements are "jerky"-- maybe a little like a mild Parkinson's condition- (low dopamine)- for an analogy. Dopamine and nor -epinephrine are impaired in ADD. I can move into a more confident mode when doing better, implicating a shift in neurotransmitters- (gate goes back to normal).

Too much dopamine runs in the family, though:
My grandmother ( and others) had schizophrenia, and the last I heard, this condition generates too much dopamine, antagonising serotonin receptors with this glut.

Just to add.


Exercise helped keep it all in order for me; increasing dopamine, serotonin, epinephrine, oxytocin, and natural endorphins; while burning off stress hormones. I think it is nature's own natural reward, that kept us moving thousands of years in the search for food. I would imagine a more sedentary way of life, impacts our biological inclinations.


That is a helpful point. I've noticed this, and thanks for the reminder.


Your welcome, it literally saved my life, several times during the course of my lifetime; nothing else worked for me. Without it I was lost in my mind.



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16 Jun 2011, 10:27 pm

Mdyar wrote:
Introversion awry:
I can be a 'quite shy' person in social settings, and can just feel plain embarrassed in these social environments. I believe I'm this "extra shy" due to dopamine issues (ADD). I cycle between good and poor executive functioning, depending on sleep and stress - my gate changes and my movements are "jerky"-- maybe a little like a mild Parkinson's condition- (low dopamine)- for an analogy. Dopamine and nor -epinephrine are impaired in ADD. I can move into a more confident mode when doing better, implicating a shift in neurotransmitters- (gate goes back to normal).

Too much dopamine runs in the family, though:
My grandmother ( and others) had schizophrenia, and the last I heard, this condition generates too much dopamine, antagonising serotonin receptors with this glut.


Just in case someone hasn't seen it and related to this:

Gale, speculated that introverts might engage in a running monologue in the absence of external stimulation. The observed increased blood flow in Broca's area in introverts might be interpreted as biological evidence of"self-talk."The introverts’ pathway is...focused internally; blood flows to the parts of the brain involved with internal experiences such as remembering, solving problems, and planning—a long, complex pathway. This may explain the tendency of introverts to experience what is known as l’esprit de l’escalier (stairway wit)—the frustrating experience of thinking of a clever comeback when it’s too late. The witty remark comes to mind much too tardily to be useful, when one is on the “staircase,” so to speak, leaving the scene. It’s probably why a lot of introverts are writers. They have all the time they need to come up with what they want to say—especially witty comebacks.

In addition to differences in brain pathways accessed, extroverts have a low sensitivity to dopamine—often known as one of the “feel good” neurotransmitters—yet they require large amounts of it. Adrenaline is needed to make more dopamine in the brain; so the more active the extrovert is, the more adrenaline is released and the more dopamine is produced. Dopamine is correlated with movement, attention, alert states, and learning.

Introverts, however, are highly sensitive to dopamine. If their bodies produce too much of it, they feel over-stimulated. An introvert’s dominant pathway uses acetylcholine, which plays a large part in our sleep and dream states. This difference in neurotransmitter sensitivity and production goes so far as to favor which basic parts of our systems are activated: Whereas extroverts are linked to the dopamine/adrenaline, energy-spending, flight-or-fight sympathetic nervous system, introverts are associated with the acetylcholine, energy-conserving, parasympathetic nervous system that relaxes and calms the body. In The Introvert Advantage, Laney has included a fascinating set of diagrams that map the pathways used in the introverted brain vs. the extroverted brain. Laney also describes some quirks of temperament that extroverts might find mystifying or annoying: Introverts may appear glazed or dazed when they’re stressed out, tired, or in groups. They may start talking in the middle of a thought. Introverts have a good memory but they can take a long time to retrieve memories. They can also experience a temporary inability to access things they know quite well, fumbling around to explain a task they perform all the time or forgetting a word they want to use. They might think they told you something when they have only thought it. And they may be slow to react under stress.

http://www.keswickhousepublishers.com/K ... 2C6AA.html



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16 Jun 2011, 11:06 pm

The idea that introverts don't like stimulation can't be true though. I like stimulation. I love thrill rides. Ever since I was a child I loved to scramble up to the top of hills, rocks, mountains. I've also always loved LOUD thunderstorms. I just don't like social stimulation. Actually I don't even find "parties" stimulating. I find "mingling" with random people tedious and draining at best. Also, I do enjoy actually DOING things with other people. I just don't enjoy standing around in a crowded room talking and sipping wine / beer. THAT is what I call boring and under-stimulating. Unless you want to count stress and anxiety as stimulation.



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16 Jun 2011, 11:44 pm

marshall wrote:
The idea that introverts don't like stimulation can't be true though. I like stimulation. I love thrill rides. Ever since I was a child I loved to scramble up to the top of hills, rocks, mountains. I've also always loved LOUD thunderstorms. I just don't like social stimulation. Actually I don't even find "parties" stimulating. I find "mingling" with random people tedious and draining at best. Also, I do enjoy actually DOING things with other people. I just don't enjoy standing around in a crowded room talking and sipping wine / beer. THAT is what I call boring and under-stimulating. Unless you want to count stress and anxiety as stimulation.


A number of authors discuss the different sub-types of introverts. For example one author lists 4 sub-types:

1. thinking introvert
2. social introvert
3. anxious introvert
4. inhibited introvert

It's possible to be extremely introverted in one area but more outward-seeking in another area. I think most of us here are "social introverts"?