Politics...

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Conservatives want to enforce rules that existed before the constitution was written and the word Liberal does not even mean anything........when used in the political sense. I mean what anything that the conservatives don't agree with is automatically liberal bs? lol Its almost as ridicoulous as claiming the idea of communism is pure evil. I am just annoyed with all of this ridiculous stereotyping and throwing innaccurate uses of words around to try and put the other side down.

The longer the citizens decide to stay divided over whether republicans, democrats, liberals or conservatives are superior the longer those in power will have to keep screwing us all over for their own gain while everyone remains in a fantasy world where all this liberal vs. conservative, democrat vs. republican ect. actually matter. Does anyone else feel this way about politics?

Well I think this continues because our election system is flawed and now deeply corrupted.

I typically vote 3rd party/Independent because none of the people who won their Primary elections from either main party has appealed to me. If McCain had won for example I somethings think things could be even worse.

the left and liberal wasn't always synonymous(maybe for only a quarter of our nationhood). both gop and dnc lean heavily towards economic liberalism(corporatism in some circles).

Communism is evil, a lot of people were killed on the alters of communism. You can argue for its benefits, but you can't deny the evil done in its name.

the left tends to feel the way you do. Conservatives do feel that we(Us Americans) need to change the way things are, but not drop ideological labels as conservatives feel that there are distinctions between themselves and liberals. Be it on economic, foreign policy, or social issues, there are common denominators that bring all Americans to the table, but too many ideological differences exist to drop labels for constructive pragmatic action (as defined by the Left).

Communism is hardly evil.....most nations who have claimed to be communist where not truly communist, they just used the idea to get support but did not actually stick to what communism is. The idea of communism is certainly not very evil. But anyways I am not on the left or right I think people get way to stuck on that.

there are two ends of the spectrum, one socialist collectivist, the other capitalist and anarchist in nature - if one can claim that America is capitalistic at 30%-40% public economy, then one can also posit that the USSR with a 70% public economy was communist. what kind of notion is that that if it is not 100% public, it is not communist? Are you prepared to say that we are not a capitalist country because we don't have 100% private economy?

It failed as a political science and as an economic system, so it was manufactured with propaganda to have faith-like components. The idea alone is harmless in a textbook. When lived out in real life requires totalitarianism and tyranny through a secret-police state, and the killing of a good many people to live it out. As a political religion, it is a very dangerous institution.

well the point of this was not to argue about communism...and when did I suggest this is not a capitalist country, I am perfectly aware it is and yes there are lots of negative sides to that. Maybe the idea was not so bad but it has turned out pretty terrible.

yes i feel that way about politics

The percentage of public economy isn't the best measure for what makes a society "communist" in the pejorative sense you use.

QFT

that was more of an issue with ideology and morality than economy.

I was going by the actual definition of communism not the so called communist governments that end up creating a ruling class and a ruled class.....true communism cannot exist as a political/economic system. So yeah in that sense the idea is not evil at all, especailly when compared to capitalism.

Well, no. Anarcho-capitalism is not the same as socialist anarchism. Capital can be privately held or publicly held, yes, but there are numerous ways to hold property publicly. There can be a top-down coercive totalitarian state as in the case of Stalinism, and there can also be more localized, decentralized models like syndicalism.

Marxism is a criticism of capitalism. Pretty much every modern-day implementation of communism derives from Marxism-Leninism or Stalinism. There are other models of socialism that differ markedly from Stalinism.

capitalism is supposed to allow everyone the oppurtunity to work their way up and get what they earn, but look how well that has worked out.

But you could argue the same of capitalism as well, especially the laissez faire type that is so popular with American neoconservatives. Regardless of how you feel about Obamacare, the privatized healthcare apparatus as it existed prior to Obama's push for reform was directly and indirectly responsible for deaths. So, of course, was the war profiteering. That has been documented. I think it's a simplistic stance, that communism is inherently evil-- like any other tool or system designed by humanity, it has its advantages and disadvantages, and the way it is used is partly dependent on the character of the user. Just like any economic system.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not a proponent of communism myself, and I'm not denying it has major flaws and has historically been used toward inhumane ends. But then, capitalism is equally flawed. I could bring up the argument, for example, that the traditional capitalist incentivization of innovation and promotion of labor don't really translate that well in a globalized economy either-- at least, not for a nation like the US, where the corporations are so often given free reign to make their own rules and the standard (and therefore, the cost) of living is so high. The accumulation of political power by corporate interests has resulted in a small number of people becoming massively rich selling off valuable jobs to China and India, and, consequently, a decrease in the American standard of living by the other 90% of the people, to the point where such abject and hopelessly insurmountable poverty has fatal consequences. Free market fetishism has ruined the American economy and ruined American lives. Don't you find that equally evil?



I question the purity of your premise, though, that the only reason the right wishes to keep said labels intact is for the pragmatic purpose of distinguishing people ideologically. I have the suspicion that many on the right (as well as, admittedly, many on the left as well) would just as soon not test the validity of these labels, out of the desire to use them as political wedges to divide the people and keep them ensnarled in the political discontent which has plagued the American government for too long already. As George Orwell pointed out, it's easier to manipulate people into pushing for your agenda if there is some sort of scapegoat-- an Emmanuel Goldstein (or, in the right's case, Barack Obama, George Soros and the "liberal media")-- upon which all the blame for problems can be heaped. I think the American right and left use each other in that capacity far too often, and progress is rarely made because of it.

As for the original topic, I don't think most people here like to think of themselves as partisan. I know I was never into "picking" a political ideology so I can wear it like a badge and go "rah rah, go home team!". It seems thought that if you dig deeper there are fundamental divides in moral principles, outlook, even thinking style, that kind of go with the whole conservative / liberal divide. I think if you explore some of the quizzes given in this thread it pretty starkly shows it.

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt165902.html

So while I don't like the idea of wearing my politics like a badge, there is something about the conservative mindset that is very alien to me. I definitely identify more with the values of one side than the other.

A lot of people have an irritating blind spot when it comes to thinking that pure capitalism rewards people based on merit. I'll defend capitalism as a better system than some others, but to believe that it is truly just is taking a giant leak on people's legs and then telling them it's raining.

Capitalism ain't perfect, but its better than government.