Friends zone and not understanding women

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gtw1983
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01 Jul 2011, 12:34 pm

hartzofspace wrote:

You are definitely on the right track there! As a female, I am put off if a guy seems to be giving off that sex vibe the very first time I meet him. A female might well think: "If this guy is so eager for sex without getting to know me first, how easy will it be for him to be intimate with other females on short notice?"

Amen!
Thank God for level headed girls like you that don't fall for the PUA player BS.
Some of these PUA's treat humans like we're merely unintelligent animals whose only purpose is too impregnate or get pregnant as soon as possible.Sex is great I'm sure,but I'm a LOT less likely to think of a girl as relationship or marriage material if she bed hops so easily.To me certain girls are sexy and beautiful beings that I would like to get to know better.They're not just cum recepticles for my own personal gratification

hartzofspace wrote:

These two descriptions fit my fiance!

Hahaha yet another person that throws a monkey wrench into the formula.So correct me if I'm wrong,but are you saying that you think of you BF as a friend/bother AND still feel great attraction for him.
if so you're the second person to tell me such a thing,only the other was a guy.

nick007
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01 Jul 2011, 1:18 pm

gtw1983 wrote:

nick007 wrote:

She was not an Aspie but she had sever dyslexia, ADHD & some minor OCD amongst other things

Whether the other person has the same diagnosis as you or not,it sure does seem like people with mental or emotional 'issues' end up in relationships together a lot.
Seems every girl that has gotten the closest to me has ADD/ADHD,OCD,Dyslexia,Bi polar,or some similar disorder.
The few NT's who have liked me seem to loose interest pretty fast when I don't catch on or act quickly.

I think it's because people who have issues are better able to relate, understand & accept others issues than people who don't. Plus some things can compliment each other. That's partly why I'd rather find someone with issues. I'd have more to offer em than someone who doesn't because I can provide emotional support & things.

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RICKY5
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01 Jul 2011, 4:06 pm

Postures wrote:

nick007 wrote:

Postures wrote:

nick007 wrote:

Women never see me as anything more than a great friend. They tell me I'm a great guy & how they wish other guys were more like me but they won't give me a chance & when I quit making myself emotionally available to em; they get really upset & b!thcy with me. I've thought about trying to act like the guys they are attracted to but that is NOT who I am; I feel like I would be pretending to be something I'm not & I also feel like it would be kind of mean. I'm a very sensitive, caring guy & I'd love to find a girl who would appreciate that instead of using me. What's the point in having a girl if I cant be sweet towards her :?:

What's the point in being their "friend" if all you want to do, is get off with them?

I'm not really interested in getting off; I'm a borderline asexual. I want friendship, emotional intimacy, affection ect

Okay but the point still stands. You are saying that you're a caring and a sensitive friend to them but you have an ulterior motive, you're expecting them to see what a wonderful guy you are and fall in love with you on the spot. Why not just be their friend, without expecting anything "romantic" to follow? They aren't using you, they're just treating you as a friend as that is what you are to them, most probably.

Unless they are bringing you something that benefits you/you like, they are useless.

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01 Jul 2011, 4:11 pm

Adam82 wrote:

nick007 wrote:

You're not alone. This pretty much describes the story of my life too. I am always the nice guy, the friend. But never more than that. Still waiting for a gf. I can't pretend to be someone I'm not. I won't be some jerk just because others say that's what girls are attracted to.

Get a good GFE provider and you will never look back. All the sweetness of a "real" relationship and none of the BS.

gtw1983
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01 Jul 2011, 5:35 pm

RICKY5 wrote:

Get a good GFE provider and you will never look back. All the sweetness of a "real" relationship and none of the BS.

Lol...by GFE are you talking about 'Girlfriend Experience'?
In other words a special form of prostitution?

If so that might be good if you just want some Sex.But at least for me having a 'girlfriend' means having a lot more than a single nights hot romp in the sheets.

nick007 wrote:

Agreed....That's one thing I guess attracted me to my short time ex..her emotional problems.
Unfortunately she was BAD Bi polar so we ended up being a bad match in the end due to her extreme emotional swings and my lack of emotion and being able to read her at the time.I've gotten a lot better at social skills in the last 2ys.But all the same next time I think I'll try to seek out either a sane non dramatic NT, or a Aspie girl :p

RICKY5
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01 Jul 2011, 5:41 pm

gtw1983 wrote:

RICKY5 wrote:

Get a good GFE provider and you will never look back. All the sweetness of a "real" relationship and none of the BS.

Lol...by GFE are you talking about 'Girlfriend Experience'?
In other words a special form of prostitution?

If so that might be good if you just want some Sex.But at least for me having a 'girlfriend' means having a lot more than a single nights hot romp in the sheets.

nick007 wrote:

Don't forget mortgage payments and alimony!

gtw1983
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01 Jul 2011, 7:22 pm

RICKY5 wrote:

gtw1983 wrote:

RICKY5 wrote:

Get a good GFE provider and you will never look back. All the sweetness of a "real" relationship and none of the BS.

nick007 wrote:

Don't forget mortgage payments and alimony!

Lol..yeah those are some big things to think about.
But the idea of me dying alone as an old man never having a wife/children and my entire romantic life having consisted of one night visits to hookers is just plain sad

Adam82
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01 Jul 2011, 7:30 pm

gtw1983 wrote:

But the idea of me dying alone as an old man never having a wife/children and my entire romantic life having consisted of one night visits to hookers is just plain sad

Same here. That's just pathetic. Having to pay someone. I want someone who wants me for me.

ValentineWiggin
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01 Jul 2011, 11:14 pm

RICKY5 wrote:

Unless they are bringing you something that benefits you/you like, they are useless.

Interesting, to reduce the benefits of relationships to sex, and think of human beings in terms of whether they're usable.

RICKY5 wrote:

Get a good GFE provider and you will never look back. All the sweetness of a "real" relationship and none of the BS.

Asserting orgasm is more ultimate than emotional intimacy with fellow human beings is quite frankly unhealthy, and reeks of a psychological disorder.

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justjelliot
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01 Jul 2011, 11:34 pm

Chronos wrote:

justjelliot wrote:

Nearly all my life I've been a good friend. Such a good friend that girls wouldn't want to wreck that. For so long I thought I was so f**** up that I thought it would be selfish to bring a girl down to my level. I couldn't fix myself and become normal. Eventually I tried to off myself, and six months after that I got the Aspie diagnosis. Now I don't feel so terrible about myself, as I'm not to 'blame' for being so different.

All this goes to show that I have struggled with the ladies beyond being good friends. I have never been out with one girl more than six times, and never had a real girlfriend. I've only kissed a girl (sober) once, and that was last week, at 25. I've never had (sober) sex or anything more.

I used to go to my friends who were girls, and ask for step by step guidelines on how to make things work with girls. They implied that such a nice guy like me would know it when I saw it, would need to play it by ear, etc. I did that, and it never worked.

I found out years later with a few girls that if I had made a move or tried to 'get some' they would have happily provided. One in particular asked what was wrong with me years earlier. I didn't say this, but thought 'You never explicitly told me what I could or couldn't do.' I used to think the ideas of men taking the lead, making moves, etc, was a way that the church and men keep women down, and the liberated woman tells the man what's ok.

After all, guys have a button pretty much. We're always ready to go, we just need to know what is off limits, we'll take care of the rest.

Can anyone relate? Is there a rule book somewhere, or an online translator to know what girls mean when they don't explicitly say it?

As I previously said, most girls are going to expect you to make the first move and in your situation, you need to let your romantic intentions be known a little sooner. If you don't know if it's ok to make a move then ask her.

And it's not true that all guys are "ready to go". A lot of guys have standards and preferences or anxiety and will turn down women they don't like, or aren't comfortable with for some reason.

Why is it always that guys are expected to make the first move? Maybe some NT guys get and like that, and know how it works. How do I make romantic intentions clear, aside from continuing to ask them out, or say, 'I like you'? I do regularly ask if moves are ok. Most girls don't think I'm being serious and end up laughing a good bit. Either that, or they think I'm serious and are uncomfortable or laughing at me.

I was talking to a girl who happens to be a friend yesterday, not girlfriend. She just broke up with her boyfriend. I told her how I don't do spontaneous romance, how I always ask in advance, and get confirmation that whatever move I make is ok. She didn't get that. I then told her I could push her against the wall and show her passion like she's never seen. The kicker is, it'll either turn into a love fest, or I'll be on the 5:00 news for assault. If I have to pick between those options, the possibility of assault trumps a love fest, so I'll ask first.

Does that make sense?

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ValentineWiggin
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02 Jul 2011, 12:08 am

justjelliot wrote:

What do "romantic intentions" have to do with lust?
Not saying they're exclusive- quite the opposite, sometimes- but neither is the former reducible to the latter, or even implicating of it.

justjelliot
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02 Jul 2011, 12:15 am

ValentineWiggin wrote:

justjelliot wrote:

What do "romantic intentions" have to do with lust?
Not saying they're exclusive- quite the opposite, sometimes- but neither is the former reducible to the latter, or even implicating of it.

"Jenny, I'm not a smart man, but I do know what love is." -Forrest Gump

I really have no idea what you just said. There's a lot of big words I don't understand, and then you jump from former to latter a few times, and then throw in opposite, so I had a lot of trouble following your point.
I gathered that you don't understand what romantic intentions have to do with lust. I'm not sure where either of those came from. I was just trying to make a point about how tough it is to make the first move, when I never know what first move is appropriate.

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ValentineWiggin
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02 Jul 2011, 1:05 am

justjelliot wrote:

ValentineWiggin wrote:

justjelliot wrote:

What do "romantic intentions" have to do with lust?
Not saying they're exclusive- quite the opposite, sometimes- but neither is the former reducible to the latter, or even implicating of it.

Apologies.
I was in turn asking why you (seemed to me to) imply making romantic intentions clear involves initiating sex with someone you're not even sure has feelings for you of any sort.

GoatOnFire
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02 Jul 2011, 2:51 am

gtw1983 wrote:

GoatOnFire wrote:

Huh????? Um, maybe I didn't make it clear enough. I don't have any friendships to destroy through a relationship. If I get hit on it is always by someone who has never met me before.

What do you think it is about you that makes them loose interest?
I've had this problem a lot in the past,but I can't pin a single set of behaviors down as the main culprit.
Maybe it's just that they sense I'm a little 'slow' so to speak.

If I knew that for sure, I would know what to target. I have suspected that body language is a big factor. Sometimes if I get in to a rhythm I can actually do a reasonable job of one on one conversation as long as I'm not leading it, though it is extremely rare for anyone to give me a chance at a one on one conversation. I'm completely lost around groups. I may also attribute it to vibes I don't intend to give off or an 'it' factor outside of my control. And whenever they do hit on me and I notice, it is really blatant. I think they just want sex but when they realize that that is not my immediate intention they just lose interest. Or maybe they're just trying to lure me into a position to rob me by pretending to be interested. I can't be 100% sure.

gtw1983 wrote:

GoatOnFire wrote:

Well, I wouldn't have even been aware that I was her friend in that case. As far as I know (and I should know) I have never had a female friend.

Curious.
How about other dudes,are you able to make friendships with them without much trouble?

Well, no. I don't make friends of either sex easily at all. Currently I have none. However, thinking back to the past I have had some male acquaintances that were close to maybe being considered a friend. Never even close to even an ambiguous friendship with a female.

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ValentineWiggin
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02 Jul 2011, 2:56 am

I've never had a female friend, myself, and really a male friend, either, except as direct-precursors to relationships.

justjelliot
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02 Jul 2011, 9:22 am

ValentineWiggin wrote:

justjelliot wrote:

ValentineWiggin wrote:

justjelliot wrote:

What do "romantic intentions" have to do with lust?
Not saying they're exclusive- quite the opposite, sometimes- but neither is the former reducible to the latter, or even implicating of it.

Apologies.
I was in turn asking why you (seemed to me to) imply making romantic intentions clear involves initiating sex with someone you're not even sure has feelings for you of any sort.

Ok, I understand now. I've been told I fluctuate between extremes on a lot of issues, with no happy mediums. This may be another one of those cases, where I don't understand how to make romantic intention clear without making it extreme. Then again, I was more or less trying to make that example to show how I fear making intentions clear, because I never know how it's going to be taken.

I have said before 'I like you. Now what?' That's much milder than the prior example. It also never ended well.

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