Autistic Traits in Males and Females.

Post Reply New Topic

I found this really interesting

[wasnt allowed to post link unfortunately] its found at help4aspergers (dot) com ["List of Female Asperger Syndrome Traits"]

I think Autism is underdiagnosed in females possibly because they exhibit different signs from the characteristic male Aspie signs - some of the things in the above link seemed a bit more severe than when males are affected [but then again Autism is a spectrum, if Asperger's is strictly autism].

Im trying to make sense of females with autism individually being very [very] stressed, to make a big deal of nothing and to be bitter about some insignificant thing. Also possibly less likely to accept that they have Asperger's than their male counterparts.

I guess theres going to be 20 females with [diagnosed]* Asperger's saying dont stereotype in this thread [and you dont need to] and in reality they will be incredibly nice people, perhaps just misunderstood and less able to communicate face to face. So what Im trying to understand is if this description above is more common than I think or if it is just a small group who are affected so badly as to be caustic and really horrible, to have meltdowns when someone talks to them and not think about the feelings of others.

I guessed they were a bit like myself growing up, really shy - quiet and just not adept at social communication [function as a Neurotypical person just "painfully" introverted]

The unusual thing is having asperger's and then the realisation that someone female with "asperger's" may behave completely differently but still be classed as having asperger's - and the realisation of possibly not understanding fully how that affects them. It almost seems to me that Asperger's in females is something different entirely [at least in some people] - I heard years ago that autism may present as eating disorders [in females] and other atypical signs which arent picked up.

So Asperger's in females probably should be classified as different than in males because it affects them so very differently - simply calling the syndrome in females, "female Asperger's" would work.

*people without a diagnosis who think they have Asperger's may have another form of autism [eg PDD-NOS] or something else entirely such as a lack of contact when developing social skills. - Hence I dont necessarily consider people without a diagnosis as definetely having autism/Aspergers.

Being the way I am. Id be cautious about branding a so called "female aspergers". I would think that evaluating females to develop a clearer profile would open up the look for symptoms in aspergers as in all potential symptoms should be considered reguardless of the gender. I feel that these types of symptoms can pertain to males as well. One common female aspie symptom is masking, being chameleon like. Im sure there are undiagnosed male aspies that can exhibit that. Same for females, they can exhibit male symptoms.

I think different cultural standards and biases can affect diagnosis or symptoms which makes things so complicated. Example: 1 potential aspie symptom is pedagogic speech. For me, if I was evaluated where I grew up, according to the societal standards I have mildly pedagogic speech. If I was evaluated where I went to college and compared according to other college students, I dont have pedagogic speech.

For me, I wasn't diagnosed till I was 18 because I was super shy and I didn't talk. Shyness is a common trait amongst the females in the culture I grew up in. However what is unusual is to have a female with that extent of shyness and blank facial expressions. When I attempted to communicate with my peers and make friends at 17, my aspieness was revealed so I got diagnosed the following yr. I apparently exhibited enough male like traits for me to not have a problem with the diagnosis. But on top of that, the women diagnosing it was very aware trying to spot out females.



I side with the stressed one. I think anxiety is very common amongst women with aspergers. I know its true for me, I get so strung out over the smallest things. I'm starting to think I need mood stabilizers. Need the anti-psychotics again. Trust me, Ive known aspie males that get pretty strung out too. I dont think there less likely to accept aspergers. I think females are more likely to go to a psych and get evaluated or research various conditions in thinking that there's a problem. I think there are more likely to be more self-diagnosed aspies then male self-diagnosed. Female perfectionism and social competency is a much higher expectancy then male. Honestly, a male with a expressionless face is more socially acceptable then a female with a expressionless face. But then males will typically fall in being competent and self-sufficient. Males are expected to strong, secure and competent, females are expected to be social butterflies and hold together the fabric of society.

You come across as incredibly sexist. I am not sure if you intend to but you seem to try to make female people into some other species which they are not.



It's a bunch of BS. I grew up female bodied (before I became a transman), and I have the same signs and characteristics as any male-bodied person has. It is rarer in females because a major gene that causes autism is found in the X chromosome. Since females have two X chromosomes it is less likely to manifest in them since the extra X chromosome will provide more protection.

Every person with aspergers is an individual. Don't unfairly say it is because of their sex because it isn't. It's just that females have the biological makeup to limit autistic tendencies or at least autism associated with that gene.

They already have a thread on this however the list of female traits was eye opening for me. Explains a couple of things...

I qualify as classic autism although my current diagnosis is Aspergers. I am female as well. I am not "so very different" from the description of Aspergers and autism given to males. In fact, I fit the description perfectly which is how it was picked up in the first place....

Another way to pigeonhole the two genders.

The reason that male aspies can be so different from female aspies isn't because they have different symptoms, it's that those symptoms manifest differently (in general) in males in females. For instance, take a look at the traits on that list that talk about how females tend to appear androgynous and have a more balanced "anima/animus." This isn't saying that androgyny/etc. is a symptom of AS unique to females. The root of this trait is a symptom of AS: less strong adherence gender rolls. In males, this instead appears as a "gentleness." (Not sure the exact meaning of that. I read it somewhere and forgot where.)

It's not that our Asperger's is different, it's that our Asperger's causes us different problem because we face different things. We have different expectations placed on us, and different ways of (generally speaking) dealing with our problems. Did you know that one of the reasons that experts suspect that girls get diagnosed less than boys is that girls are naturally less aggressive (in general) and are therefor less likely to throw the kinds of tantrums that get boys noticed? It is also suspected that female peers are (in general) more accepting of those less socially adept than them, and have been known to take little aspies under their wing, making the young aspie appear more socially adept than she really is?

It sounds to me like you've just stumbled upon this information, and WrongPlanet. Stick around for a bit. We're more alike than you'd think. Also, check out her book. If that chart interested you, you'll probably enjoy her book on the subject.



I don't necessarily disagree with this statement. It's semantics, really, but I don't like the use of the word "shy" when it comes to Asperger's. "Shy" technically implies social anxiety. While people with ASD may experience social anxiety, the root of the problem isn't social anxiety, it's poor communication skills and a lower social "drive" than your average NT. Personal preference for terminology, I suppose, but I think it's an important distinction to recognize. I've been given the "Shy" moniker all my life, but I'm not afraid to get up on stage and sing a solo, or do an oral report in class. I'm not even afraid of talking to people, but I got called shy all my life because I had trouble socially and preferred to sit indoors reading than play with friends. Now being called "shy" chaffs because it's a way of dismissing the very real problems I face. I'm not just shy. I don't just need to "try harder" or "put myself out there". I have a very real problem that isn't due to shyness.

Sorry to make such a big deal out of this, it's only that your profile labels you as "neurotypical" and the way that you speak seem to imply a sort of third-person view of Asperger's, as opposed to the first person view most people here have. When you made that statement, it seemed to imply that you were drawing a parallel between your own NT childhood and those of people with AS. It felt as if you were saying "they're basically the same as me, only they didn't deal with it as well."

Not that I want to make any assumption about your intent, but your manner of speaking here comes off as very arrogant.



This, specifically, is very condescending. You throw around some very poignant words here. Please remember that the majority of the people here aren't people with an intellectual interest in AS or people with an AS family member. Most people here are people with AS themselves. It seems as if you do not realize this. I feel like you're speaking as you would in an Intro to Psych class, as if for you Asperger's is some distant, horrible disease that affects people too disturbed to speak for themselves or relate to others on a basic level. People with Asperger's do have a unique set of problems to face and they aren't perfectly normal, but that doesn't make them invalids to look down on as broken or damaged. Please remember that, especially if you're seeking a career in psychology.

Its a day after I made the OP and got a variety of responses.......predictably

The link I found describing the female variances in Asperger's was enlightening

What I mean is that yes some females will fit the same pattern of symptoms as a male with aspergers but others may fall through the net and be diagnosed with
something like depression, OCD or even bipolar mistakenly

Ive come across misdiagnosed Aspergers in a female as OCD before [by the patients GP] - I guess a clinical psychologist would probably pick Asperger's up more reliably. The description of them fit that of Asperger's [/Autism] very clearly and the GP didnt seem to understand what OCD was [they had stereotype in their head]

Im not sexist and neither trying to be condescending. I also dont think that trying to understand why some females with Asperger's behave the way they do is merely academic - understanding people and how to get along with them isnt something people can disregard.

I didnt mean to upset anyone - and if anyone really feels upset them I am truly sorry, but just go somewhere else.

But you wrote sexist things. How can we perceive you as an objective judge of your own character when what you say does not match with what you do?



Except you made a fairly unsupported claim -



You're making it sound like autistic women are a homogenous group, and it looks like you are saying this because they are women. Your characterization of how autistic women behave makes it sound like autistic women as a group "make a big deal of nothing and to be bitter about some insignificant thing" as if this is something that only an autistic woman would do.

I find this extremely surprising, as my father - who is bursting with AS traits - is the kind of guy who "makes a big deal of nothing and is bitter about insignificant things." Tony Attwood discusses this as a maladaptive way that some undiagnosed autistic people adopt to cope with their social difficulties - by blaming their social difficulties on other people.

I have no idea what you're referring to about "less likely to accept that they have Asperger's than their male counterparts." I am curious if this is an evidence-based claim or if you've encountered a few women who reject the idea that they're autistic and generalized it to autistic women, even though autistic men also reject the idea and even the diagnosis. Many people take time to come to terms with it.

So why do you think that autistic women are particularly special with regards to these traits? Why aren't autistic men remarkable for behaving like this?

And for that matter, don't quite a few neurotypicals of all genders behave the same way? Don't they also make a big deal about nothing and get bitter about insignificant things? Is it remotely possible that there could be the same motivations at work? Why pathologize every single behavior that an autistic person expresses?



You don't have a right to expect that. If you say something provocative, expect to have it pointed out that it is provocative. It's not really your place to tell anyone here that they just have to suck up your sexist assertions and go away because you want to talk about it. Your line of questioning isn't even valid.

And didn't you say something in your post about:



Since you're telling anyone who might be hurt by your words to go away, I rather wonder whether you think about the feelings of others.

So if its not that our aspergers is different, then why do u say that girls are naturally less aggressive then you are saying that aspergers is manifested differently. But if you say that girls are taught more strictly not to be aggressive then that's different.

I wouldnt say that female peers are more accepting. There more likely to pity the girls and try to mother them. But then Ive also heard of the female peers taking aspie boys under their wing as well. Tho teachers are more likely to notice theres something unusual about that.

Girls being naturally less aggressive? You haven't been through highschool have you? Girls show anger and aggression in a different way. We are less obvious about something we are angry about eg. passive aggressive behaviour, saying nothing is wrong when we are actually angry. Trust me on this one

Girls in general, not girls with AS compared to boys with AS, but in general girls are less aggressive than boys. This isn't my opinion here, this is what I've read from some studies done on AS. I sadly can't find the source I was paraphrasing there, but I found this on Wiki:



So I guess in a way it depends on how you define aggression. I don't think I'm wrong in saying that girls are in general less physically aggressive than boys, and I think there's some validity in saying that this makes boys with AS (in general) more noticeable than girls, especially since diagnosis seems to be driven by trouble in school. A kid who has trouble making friends is a lot less of a problem in the classroom than a kid who starts throwing a temper tantrum in the middle of math.

Basically, what I was getting at there was that there undeniably are gender differences that make AS manifest differently in general between the sexes. It's not that we're suffering from two similar but unique problems, it's that we're dealing with the same thing differently. You could also argue that it's cultural differences, such as different gender expectations like you mentioned. I wouldn't dare suggest that gender is the only deciding factor that determines what kind of experience a person with AS has, but I wouldn't say it doesn't play a roll either. Not so much when it comes to individual cases, but when looking at large groups of people I'd say these trends hold true.

I promise I'm not one of those people who believe in defined gender rolls and universal gender experiences. Having a vagina does not make me who I am, or anybody else in this world. I will fully, 100% stand by that statement. But at the same time, I do have an interest in PROVEN differences between the genders, probably because I've been on the "we're all the same" bandwagon for so long. Science can prove my long-standing beliefs wrong, and I'm really interested in the hows and whys of that. To me, it's not sexist to say that men and women are different. It's sexist to expect a person to behave a certain way based solely on their gender. I won't say "You're a woman/man, and therefore you should be like this and experience this" but I will say that "women/men in general have a stronger tendency to this." That's not wrong in my eyes.



I think it depends on the age group you're looking at, really. I think that once you hit middle school, girls become much, much less accepting than their male counterparts. I think it really depends on how you define "accepting" as well. I would have defined it as "taking pity on them and trying to mother them." XD But if you define it as "being less judgmental," then there might be some argument that the statement isn't true.

This "mother hen" experience is the main reason I think I've gotten through life so well, which is probably why I put so much stock in it. The times I stood out the most at school were when my best friend wasn't around. It's probably bias of me, but because this was such a vital aspect of my experience, I see it as more valid.

I've heard about that as well, but I think you'll agree that with a young, female aspie finding one of these "mother hens" could help to mask the young girl's social difficulties. That's what I was getting at there.

Oh, yeah, I know. Bad choice of words on my part, I guess. When I said "aggression" there I thought it was apparent that I meant physical aggression. Which girls are statistically proven to be less inclined to in general.

But, you see, this is exactly what I was talking about! You say girls show aggression in a different way, I was talking about how girls show their Asperger's in a different way. Me thinks we're all in agreement here. Maybe.

I do agree that girls with Aspergers are a bit different to boys with Aspergers. I mean Aspergers in girls is less obvious than boys, often misdiagnosed as bipolar or whatnot. I'm not very logical however I have a keen interest for the arts, I'm hopless at maths. No two aspies are the same, I've met another male aspie and his interests are pokemon and Japan. I'm yet to met another female aspie, I wonder what her interests might be....

Not sure why some people act like asperger's itself is different when females have the disorder. There are differences between male and female aspies sure, but for the most part it is glaringly obvious that these differences are sex differences and nothing to do with the disorder itself. My earnest apologies to anyone I offend but, awhile ago someone posted the "unique" traits of aspie girls and not only were the majority of questions vague enough to apply to a large portion of shy people both male and female but also contained traits like "being more emotionally open" and "more expressive in the face" really? females being more emotionally expressive, who would have thought that?

To be completely honest I have never felt like a proper female.....so I don't know that aspergers effects me differently because I'm female. As for the mention of anorexia, I have never come close to having anything like that I do not care about my body image that terribly much so I have never really fell victim to insecurities associated with my physical appearance. I have other insecurities but not what you would expect from a typical female.