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Ai_Ling
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29 Jun 2011, 12:26 am

There was one time a doctor told me I was potentially borderline OCD, I didnt really think much of it because I didnt seem to fit the diagnosis criteria at all.

See one of my aspie obsessions is that I get fixated deeply on other people. When people have these types of obsessions they are seen as stalkers and creeps. There's just a horrible connotation and I'm ashamed of it. Psychs don't seem to realize this because Im practically like an open book about almost everything in my life.

I read in a aspergers book for clinicians that aspies can have OCD that involve other people. So Im starting to put this together.

Obsession: I have unwanted thoughts that the person Im obsessed with has a problem with me or I did something wrong. Perhaps there doing something wrong to me, like maybe their lying to me. Tho lately, Ive perpetuated a lot of this into self-blame. I overanalyze there smallest actions and my actions towards them and find fault in me or them.

Compulsion: I need to talk it out with them, I need to straighten it out. And often times they see it as very minor and they dont think much of it. If I don't apologize and admit my faults, it'll drive me haywire crazy. I will get very anxious and depressed for a 1-2 days and the feeling will slowly go away after I've taken forever to rationalize it.

Ive had this problem for 4 yrs and I've hid it quite well. Ive only kinda told one psych and I finally painfully revealed it to a friend. That psych was the one that suggested I was borderline OCD. I didnt go into detail with either.

I dont mind admitting it to a forum cause you guys dont know me and I dont care how Im judged online.



Chronos
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29 Jun 2011, 1:07 am

Ai_Ling wrote:
There was one time a doctor told me I was potentially borderline OCD, I didnt really think much of it because I didnt seem to fit the diagnosis criteria at all.

See one of my aspie obsessions is that I get fixated deeply on other people. When people have these types of obsessions they are seen as stalkers and creeps. There's just a horrible connotation and I'm ashamed of it. Psychs don't seem to realize this because Im practically like an open book about almost everything in my life.

I read in a aspergers book for clinicians that aspies can have OCD that involve other people. So Im starting to put this together.


I would need this to be elaborated on. Do you recall the name of the book?

Ai_Ling wrote:
Obsession: I have unwanted thoughts that the person Im obsessed with has a problem with me or I did something wrong. Perhaps there doing something wrong to me, like maybe their lying to me. Tho lately, Ive perpetuated a lot of this into self-blame. I overanalyze there smallest actions and my actions towards them and find fault in me or them.

Compulsion: I need to talk it out with them, I need to straighten it out. And often times they see it as very minor and they dont think much of it. If I don't apologize and admit my faults, it'll drive me haywire crazy. I will get very anxious and depressed for a 1-2 days and the feeling will slowly go away after I've taken forever to rationalize it.


I feel this is social anxiety caused by things other than OCD and here is why. A person with OCD may very well have unwanted thoughts that someone doesn't like them or love them, but they generally know these worries to be untrue. The worry also tends to have an acute presentation, arising spontaneously and quickly, or in a very specific context.The compulsions associated with OCD are actually rituals that one is highly compelled to do, and do serve to neutralize the obsessions. However these rituals are rarely of any logical nature. To rid one's self of the feeling that person X doesn't like or love them, the person with OCD may tap something in a specific way a certain number of times, or may undo whatever they did that caused the intrusive thought to occur.

You needing to apologize to the person/explain yourself is more typical of normal stress response that people tend to have when they feel they have made themselves look bad to someone they want to make a good impression upon.

I think the root of your problem may stem from your inability to read people.

Ive had this problem for 4 yrs and I've hid it quite well. Ive only kinda told one psych and I finally painfully revealed it to a friend. That psych was the one that suggested I was borderline OCD. I didnt go into detail with either.

I dont mind admitting it to a forum cause you guys dont know me and I dont care how Im judged online.[/quote]



Ai_Ling
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29 Jun 2011, 1:42 am

I know I have social anxiety even tho I dont have an official diagnosis, every single person Ive ever gone to see has agreed.

The Book is called: Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy for Adult Aspergers Syndrome
And its targeted towards psychs and other clinical professionals. So its not targeted towards those actually with AS.

Quote:
if the person is experiencing the thoughts as intrusive and feels related behaviors(compulsions are driven and distressing, then OCD could be considered...it is common for the compulsions to have a social component and involve other people. These include the need to tell, ask, request, or demand information or assurance from others.


I could be reading this all wrong
1) I see the thoughts as intrusive,consuming and distressing. My head is a roller coaster for the smallest reasons.
2) It has a social component and it involves other people. I feel the need to "demand assurance from others" that everythings ok.

Quote:
I think the root of your problem may stem from your inability to read people.


Thats true. It doesnt mean that the OCD couldnt have evolved because of this.

I really dont know, its a hypothesis. It might sound crazy. Perhaps I would need to bounce this 1 off with my psych. But its an uncomfortable topic to discuss. I feel like such a creep.



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29 Jun 2011, 1:54 am

Ok I found whats happening.

Compulsions: http://www.ocdtypes.com/unusual-compulsions.php

Quote:
Urges to tell or confess: People with OCD may constantly wonder if they have done something wrong or made a mistake. One way they often try to cope with this fear is by telling every detail of their actions to another person. This behavior can be particularly troublesome in relationships, as for example, a husband may have an urge to tell his wife every time he notices an attractive woman, to assure her she does not think he is looking at her in an improper manner. Likewise, Catholics may feel compelled to confess every small sin to the priest to be sure that they have not accidentally omitted a cardinal sin to prevent damnation. People with OCD may even stress their therapists as they may feel the need to disclose every detail of their past mental health history to be sure that the therapist will have all the information needed to render a proper diagnosis and treatment plan. As a result people often get tired and frustrated listening to the person with OCD confess or explain things to an extreme degree. The need to tell or confess is often coupled by the need to obtain reassurance (see below).

Excessive reassurance seeking: People with OCD often seek reassurance from others as a way of reducing anxiety from obsessions. Research has shown that people plagued by obsessions about sex, religion, morality, and bodily concerns tend to be the most likely to use reassurance to cope with their distress. Requests for reassurance can come in the form of demands or can be elicited more subtly. People with concerns about illness may visit a doctor repeatedly to be reassured that they have not contracted an illness. People who worry about having said the wrong thing, may seek reassurance from others to ensure that have caused offense. People who use reassurance to cope can be very skilled at eliciting reassuring feedback from others, and neither party may even be aware that the obsessive-compulsive process is occurring. Therapists often provide reassurance to clients as part of the treatment process, but people with OCD should not be reassured as this only perpetuates the OCD cycle.


Umm you would not find this on most websites. Sigh...I need to have a discussion with my psych. *Officially tacks on another self-diagnosis*



Chronos
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29 Jun 2011, 3:44 am

Ai_Ling wrote:
Ok I found whats happening.

Compulsions: http://www.ocdtypes.com/unusual-compulsions.php
Quote:
Urges to tell or confess: People with OCD may constantly wonder if they have done something wrong or made a mistake. One way they often try to cope with this fear is by telling every detail of their actions to another person. This behavior can be particularly troublesome in relationships, as for example, a husband may have an urge to tell his wife every time he notices an attractive woman, to assure her she does not think he is looking at her in an improper manner. Likewise, Catholics may feel compelled to confess every small sin to the priest to be sure that they have not accidentally omitted a cardinal sin to prevent damnation. People with OCD may even stress their therapists as they may feel the need to disclose every detail of their past mental health history to be sure that the therapist will have all the information needed to render a proper diagnosis and treatment plan. As a result people often get tired and frustrated listening to the person with OCD confess or explain things to an extreme degree. The need to tell or confess is often coupled by the need to obtain reassurance (see below).


It's unusual because it's likely not actually OCD and probably more a peripheral co-morbid or "related" thing with the exception of the Catholic feeling a need to confess even the smallest sins, which would fall under scrupulosity and can affect even those who are not religious (implying it IS OCD since it makes no sense). The person logically knows they will not go to hell for forgetting to confess a sin but worry they will anyway.

While I've been known to describe things in great detail, this is not due to the fact that I have OCD. If it were due to OCD, I would likely feel the need to either repeat details or call up later to reassure myself I did not miss any details or unintentionally give the wrong answer.

Ai_Ling wrote:
Excessive reassurance seeking: People with OCD often seek reassurance from others as a way of reducing anxiety from obsessions. Research has shown that people plagued by obsessions about sex, religion, morality, and bodily concerns tend to be the most likely to use reassurance to cope with their distress. Requests for reassurance can come in the form of demands or can be elicited more subtly.


This is true but this is because people with OCD either do not remember the information they need to feel reassured, or their brain did not properly process that information, thinks it didn't get it, and is producing a sensation of doubt to provoke the person to re-collect the relevant information or re-perform the relevant task.

Ai_Ling wrote:
People with concerns about illness may visit a doctor repeatedly to be reassured that they have not contracted an illness. People who worry about having said the wrong thing, may seek reassurance from others to ensure that have caused offense.


Though I realize this was an example, I would like to point out that true hypochondria is a separate disorder from OCD. A person with OCD may, however engage in hypochondria like behavior though they are not actually worried about themselves in the way the hypochondriac is. For example, a true hypochondriac is worried FOR themselves. They are worried they have some horrible thing and might die and this scares them. A person with OCD might worry they have been contaminated or infected/infested with something but they are not actually so concerned about the effects of this. Their fixation is simply that they might "have" it and that alone is often the source of the disturbance. The hypochondriac is worried about what might happen to them as a result of having something.

As far as saying the wrong thing, I think the person with OCD would generally be more concerned that they said something horrible or used the wrong tone and were misunderstood.

Ai_Ling wrote:
People who use reassurance to cope can be very skilled at eliciting reassuring feedback from others, and neither party may even be aware that the obsessive-compulsive process is occurring. Therapists often provide reassurance to clients as part of the treatment process, but people with OCD should not be reassured as this only perpetuates the OCD cycle.


This is generally true. However I do believe there are some situations where reassurance can prove conductive to treatment.

I can see how you would think you might be experiencing a form of OCD. You could have OCD...I'm not in a position to tell you you don't, but it's important to keep in mind that on the surface, OCD can be indistinguishable from many other things, to the person without OCD. Internally, OCD is entirely different and the name of the disorder is actually very misleading because the obsessions aren't obsessions in the sense most people think about them and the compulsions aren't compulsions in the sense most people think about them.

The fear and anxiety associated with OCD is more hallucinatory in nature as is generally illogical and just the a part of the brain trying to compel a person to do something because it thinks it's something important that hasn't been done when it actually has, and can be invoked in situations that don't warrant it.




Umm you would not find this on most websites. Sigh...I need to have a discussion with my psych. *Officially tacks on another self-diagnosis*



Ai_Ling
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29 Jun 2011, 4:37 am

I find myself seeking reassurance from the person. One time, I was in the midst of a meltdown during finals week and I was fearing that my friend, whom im obsessed with was gonna unfriend me and it was pretty irrational. I called him up and I talked to him a bit trying to tell him I was swallowing under the stress of finals week. From just doing that, was a significant sigh of relief. I needed to do it, if I didnt I would have been irritable and depressed for the next few days.

So this manifests itself in the form of a crush. A couple friends knew I had a crush on him but they didnt know quite the extent of the obsession. Id still tell them stuff. One said, that it was consuming my life. And another mentioned how I got worked up over completely petty things. They did not know to the extent of how obsessive I was.

I hate it, I feel like such a freak at times. I work very hard to control it but I still allow the things to slip which does harm to my relationships. Ive lost friendships because of my obsessive nature. One friendship meant a lot to me, we were almost like bffs for 2 yrs. The compulsions to contact them has gone down due to a lot of hard work.



ocdgirl123
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29 Jun 2011, 2:20 pm

I have this type of OCD too. I will think "I did X, will person Y, not like anymore?" I will then try yo find reasons why the person will still like me in my head. I will say "does Y have any friends that I know about that has done something similar to X?", if the answer is yes, I say will in my head "but what if Y's friend's situation was actually very different?"

I really hope this is OCD and NOT social anxiety. Because the thought of having social anxiety is a horrible thought for me. I don't know what it is. I feel that even my closest friend, wouldn't like me if I had social anxiety. I know she would still like me, but my brain tells me that she wouldn't.

By the way, the compulsions can either be not connected in a realistic way, but if they are excessive, that is enough for a diagnosis:

"the behaviors or mental acts are aimed at preventing or reducing distress or preventing some dreaded event or situation; however, these behaviors or mental acts either are not connected in a realistic way with what they are designed to neutralize or prevent or are clearly excessive"

Like for example, a person with OCD is afraid that the door is not locked, will check the door to see if it is locked.



Last edited by ocdgirl123 on 29 Jun 2011, 2:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ai_Ling
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29 Jun 2011, 2:41 pm

ocdgirl123 wrote:
I have this type of OCD too. I will think "I did X, will person Y, not like anymore?" I will then try yo find reasons why the person will still like me in my head. I will say "does Y have any friends that I know about that has done something similar to X?", if the answer is yes, I say will in my head "but what if Y's friend's situation was actually very different?"

I really hope this is OCD and NOT social anxiety. Because the thought of having social anxiety is a horrible thought for me. I don't know what it is. I feel that even my closest friend, wouldn't like me if I had social anxiety. I know she would still like me, but my brain tells me that she wouldn't.


Whether its SA or OCD, the situation still as it is. Would it better to tell your friend its OCD? For me, if I told any of my friends I was OCD about them, it makes me sound like a creep. Whereas, if I just told them I have SA, they'll think more of it as a general thing. Or thats what I think. I havent used diagnostic labels but I put the illusion that its just SA in the way I describe the reasoning for my behavior. I don't use the obsession word.

I take it, your not diagnosed.



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29 Jun 2011, 2:49 pm

I have had an assessment for OCD, but not for social anxiety that I know of. My friend knows about the OCD already, I don't think I have ever said anything about social anxiety to her.



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29 Jun 2011, 3:23 pm

Chronos wrote:
I feel this is social anxiety caused by things other than OCD and here is why. A person with OCD may very well have unwanted thoughts that someone doesn't like them or love them, but they generally know these worries to be untrue.

I HIGHLY disagree that these worries are indicative of social anxiety and not OCD. I have both OCD and AS, and I have zero social anxiety whatsoever. However, I have had many, many times where I've had obsessions about hurting somebody's feelings or making somebody mad, and my compulsion is to ask for reassurance that everything is okay and the person isn't mad at me. And I've had confessing compulsions since age 4, and they have nothing to do with my religion. Rather, my religious beliefs and my scrupulosity mostly stem FROM my OCD. I'm not saying that Ai_Ling has official OCD, mind you. Much more probing into symptoms needs to be done to determine that. What I am saying is that his symptoms could easily be OCD. I have had OCD my whole life, and I have these symptoms more days than not. As for becoming obsessively fixated on a person and always wanting to be around them or talk about them, that would be the AS, and I've had this, too.


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29 Jun 2011, 3:58 pm

I know for me, I only have this with CERTAIN people. I only have it with the people I have a special interest in at that time. Sometimes friends, but usually.



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29 Jun 2011, 5:29 pm

ocdgirl123 wrote:
I know for me, I only have this with CERTAIN people. I only have it with the people I have a special interest in at that time. Sometimes friends, but usually.


Its the same thing with me too. I've thought this entire time for the last 4 yrs that it was all part of social anxiety. I think this is starting to reframe things for me if I do have OCD. It doesnt mean I dont have SA, its just a lot more mild then I thought it was. It happens mostly with the person Im obsessed with. I've gotten much control over all the other people in my life to the point where everythings very normal except for those 1 or 2 friends Im obessive over.

When this first began, I suspected OCD but then when I would read the diagnostic creteria and examples, it just didnt fit. I mean I saw my need to contact the person as a "compulsion". I mean all the hand washing, hoarding, checking examples, I dont exhibit.

So I linked my obessions to a combo of aspie special interests with bad SA.



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29 Jun 2011, 7:17 pm

Ai_Ling wrote:
When this first began, I suspected OCD but then when I would read the diagnostic creteria and examples, it just didnt fit. I mean I saw my need to contact the person as a "compulsion". I mean all the hand washing, hoarding, checking examples, I dont exhibit.

The real way to tell if it can be a compulsion or not is this:
Before you contact the person, do you feel extremely anxious? After you ask for reassurance, do you feel a sense of relief and have your anxiety go away?

If so, then this could be indicative of OCD. The whole point of a compulsion is to help alleviate the intense, intense anxiety, fear, and sense of dread that an obsession brings. If you do not have this recurring cycle of obsession/fear/compulsion/relief, it's not likely to be OCD. And my confessing compulsions only occur with the people who I care about the most. And most of these people, such as my mother and best friend, have never been a special interest for me. I care about them deeply, but it's not in an obsessive excitement way. In addition, when I confess or compulsively ask for reassurance, it's an attempt for me to make sure everything's okay, and that the people I care about aren't upset by something I've done. Most OCD fears center around worrying about others and feeling guilt, not worrying about yourself. I really couldn't care less what people think of me. I worry that I might have done something to upset THEM.

Also, just because you don't compulsively handwash, hoard, or check doesn't mean you can't have a form of OCD. Those are just the stereotypical compulsions/symptoms, since they are the types of OCD that occur most frequently and are heard about most in the media. I'm a pure obsessional, which is a type of OCD very rarely talked about in the general public. Other than confessing and compulsively asking for reassurance, all of my compulsions are hidden, such as mentally praying. I don't appear to have OCD to the untrained observer, because I don't show overt symptoms. If you have any other questions about OCD, just ask. Neuropsychiatric disorders are my specialty, both in my personal struggles and in my career.


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29 Jun 2011, 8:12 pm

Quote:
The real way to tell if it can be a compulsion or not is this:
Before you contact the person, do you feel extremely anxious? After you ask for reassurance, do you feel a sense of relief and have your anxiety go away?


Yes I do. That was the point I was trying get across in the entire thread. When this all first started 4 yrs ago, I used to compulsively call my friend 16x so he would pick up and he would be so annoyed at my insecurity issues. He was my best friend for 2 yrs and it was largely my fault why were not friends anymore. Do you drive your family/friends absolutely crazy?

Over the yrs, I've worked so hard to lessen the compulsions and the compulsive part is not as bad as it used to be. The obsession is still there and I know its so unhealthy for me. In my case, this is all heavily tied into aspie special interests. But my special interests is destructive to my mental health and relationships.

What types of treatment is used for this type of OCD. Would it be a good idea to seek a diagnosis, I am seeing a general psych. Most of what I've read about is addressing the stereotypical OCD cases and Id guess the treatment for this type of OCD is different.

Its weird in trying to reframe so much of my emotional instabilities from the last 4 yrs



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29 Jun 2011, 8:14 pm

OddDuckNash99 wrote:
Most OCD fears center around worrying about others and feeling guilt, not worrying about yourself. I really couldn't care less what people think of me. I worry that I might have done something to upset THEM.


I fear both what people with think of me and if I have done something to upset them. You did say "most". It's seems to follow a more OCD-like pattern than an social anxiety like pattern.

For me, I feel anxious before I "seek reassurance" and relief after that. Then I need to seek reassurance again. I also try to "disprove" the obsession in my mind.

Most of my obsessions about ME rather than other people. I do I have a few that are about other people. Of course, everyone with OCD is different there are always exceptions to "most" rules.



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02 Jul 2011, 1:04 pm

I used to have this kind of OCD. It was centered around a fear that I had miscommunicated or hurt someone's feelings inadvertently, and the associated compulsion was reassurance seeking. Sounds like you have a similar problem, OP.