If a girl is raped and pregnant, should she keep the baby?

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Seabass
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15 Nov 2012, 10:53 am

mechanicalgirl39 wrote:
Seabass wrote:
mechanicalgirl39 wrote:
Seabass wrote:
I was just giving my opinion. I usually just stay out of this topic though, as I'm a man and would never be in that kind of situation.


So you admit you don't know how it is but you throw out half assed opinions anyway?

Seriously, you think the right thing for, say, a poor woman who can barely feed her dog and pay for electricity to do is HAVE A KID?


Yep, sometimes I throw out my opinions out there . . . sorry.

I suppose in that kind of situation it's understandable if she opts for the easy way out. I still don't think its the right thing to do. What if it happens multiple times? Should she just get abortion after abortion?


Why are you so against women being able to 'get out' of pain, drastic body changes, endocrine system disruption and sickness?

You talk about it like it's just letting a child off detention. It makes me sick.


C'mon, that analogy is unfair. Believe me I've thought long and hard about this. Eventually I reached the mindset I have now because when my mom got pregnant she could have very well aborted me considering the situation. I'm sure another woman would have gone through with it. But she didn't, she never even considered it. She had a loving family to turn back to. As I said before, it's understandable in a very dire situation for a woman to turn to abortion. But not anything less than that.



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15 Nov 2012, 1:24 pm

Seabass wrote:
mechanicalgirl39 wrote:
Seabass wrote:
mechanicalgirl39 wrote:
Seabass wrote:
I was just giving my opinion. I usually just stay out of this topic though, as I'm a man and would never be in that kind of situation.


So you admit you don't know how it is but you throw out half assed opinions anyway?

Seriously, you think the right thing for, say, a poor woman who can barely feed her dog and pay for electricity to do is HAVE A KID?


Yep, sometimes I throw out my opinions out there . . . sorry.

I suppose in that kind of situation it's understandable if she opts for the easy way out. I still don't think its the right thing to do. What if it happens multiple times? Should she just get abortion after abortion?


Why are you so against women being able to 'get out' of pain, drastic body changes, endocrine system disruption and sickness?

You talk about it like it's just letting a child off detention. It makes me sick.


C'mon, that analogy is unfair. Believe me I've thought long and hard about this. Eventually I reached the mindset I have now because when my mom got pregnant she could have very well aborted me considering the situation. I'm sure another woman would have gone through with it. But she didn't, she never even considered it. She had a loving family to turn back to. As I said before, it's understandable in a very dire situation for a woman to turn to abortion. But not anything less than that.


What's unfair about it? You don't want to let women get out of having to be pregnant.

Don't you get that pregnancy itself IS DIRE? It's a huge drastic invasive process. And you want to use it like a f*****g detention slip because the bad girl had sex. Sick. Her body doesn't stop being her own because a condom ruptured.

My mom could have aborted me too. So what? She had that right at the time.


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15 Nov 2012, 3:33 pm

mechanicalgirl39 wrote:
Seabass wrote:
mechanicalgirl39 wrote:
Seabass wrote:
mechanicalgirl39 wrote:
Seabass wrote:
I was just giving my opinion. I usually just stay out of this topic though, as I'm a man and would never be in that kind of situation.


So you admit you don't know how it is but you throw out half assed opinions anyway?

Seriously, you think the right thing for, say, a poor woman who can barely feed her dog and pay for electricity to do is HAVE A KID?


Yep, sometimes I throw out my opinions out there . . . sorry.

I suppose in that kind of situation it's understandable if she opts for the easy way out. I still don't think its the right thing to do. What if it happens multiple times? Should she just get abortion after abortion?


Why are you so against women being able to 'get out' of pain, drastic body changes, endocrine system disruption and sickness?

You talk about it like it's just letting a child off detention. It makes me sick.


C'mon, that analogy is unfair. Believe me I've thought long and hard about this. Eventually I reached the mindset I have now because when my mom got pregnant she could have very well aborted me considering the situation. I'm sure another woman would have gone through with it. But she didn't, she never even considered it. She had a loving family to turn back to. As I said before, it's understandable in a very dire situation for a woman to turn to abortion. But not anything less than that.


What's unfair about it? You don't want to let women get out of having to be pregnant.

Don't you get that pregnancy itself IS DIRE? It's a huge drastic invasive process. And you want to use it like a f***ing detention slip because the bad girl had sex. Sick. Her body doesn't stop being her own because a condom ruptured.

My mom could have aborted me too. So what? She had that right at the time.


You're making it seem like I want to prohibit or regulate abortion. That's not the case. Women would find other ways to get rid of unwanted fetus'. But if a single, poor woman came up to me and asked whether she should keep her baby or abort, I would tell her to keep it, and suggest adoption.



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15 Nov 2012, 7:32 pm

Seabass wrote:
mechanicalgirl39 wrote:
Seabass wrote:
mechanicalgirl39 wrote:
Seabass wrote:
mechanicalgirl39 wrote:
Seabass wrote:
I was just giving my opinion. I usually just stay out of this topic though, as I'm a man and would never be in that kind of situation.


So you admit you don't know how it is but you throw out half assed opinions anyway?

Seriously, you think the right thing for, say, a poor woman who can barely feed her dog and pay for electricity to do is HAVE A KID?


Yep, sometimes I throw out my opinions out there . . . sorry.

I suppose in that kind of situation it's understandable if she opts for the easy way out. I still don't think its the right thing to do. What if it happens multiple times? Should she just get abortion after abortion?


Why are you so against women being able to 'get out' of pain, drastic body changes, endocrine system disruption and sickness?

You talk about it like it's just letting a child off detention. It makes me sick.


C'mon, that analogy is unfair. Believe me I've thought long and hard about this. Eventually I reached the mindset I have now because when my mom got pregnant she could have very well aborted me considering the situation. I'm sure another woman would have gone through with it. But she didn't, she never even considered it. She had a loving family to turn back to. As I said before, it's understandable in a very dire situation for a woman to turn to abortion. But not anything less than that.


What's unfair about it? You don't want to let women get out of having to be pregnant.

Don't you get that pregnancy itself IS DIRE? It's a huge drastic invasive process. And you want to use it like a f***ing detention slip because the bad girl had sex. Sick. Her body doesn't stop being her own because a condom ruptured.

My mom could have aborted me too. So what? She had that right at the time.


You're making it seem like I want to prohibit or regulate abortion. That's not the case. Women would find other ways to get rid of unwanted fetus'. But if a single, poor woman came up to me and asked whether she should keep her baby or abort, I would tell her to keep it, and suggest adoption.


I would advise her to think and decide how SHE feels and what SHE wants. I'd help her work it out but I wouldn't TELL her to pick either option.


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17 Nov 2012, 9:07 am

Seabass wrote:
mechanicalgirl39 wrote:
Seabass wrote:
What if it happens multiple times? Should she just get abortion after abortion?


Yes.


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17 Nov 2012, 9:11 am

TrainofLove wrote:
Seabass wrote:
mechanicalgirl39 wrote:
Seabass wrote:
What if it happens multiple times? Should she just get abortion after abortion?


Yes.


I say yes too. Eventually though if there are any birth control methods she could get and use she would probably eventually use them rather than go through the pain and hassle of getting abortions.

After my second pregnancy Planned Parenthood offered me Norplant which I got and once it was time to get that out I had stopped having sex.



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17 Nov 2012, 9:30 am

Seabass wrote:
C'mon, that analogy is unfair. Believe me I've thought long and hard about this.
Maybe you have to think more about this.

Quote:
Eventually I reached the mindset I have now because when my mom got pregnant she could have very well aborted me considering the situation.
And if she did so, so what? It is just the same retroactive abortion argument that is always used.

If my mother aborted me, I wouldn't exist. So I wouldn't really get to suffer anything. It is not really the same as if I was killed right now.

Quote:
I'm sure another woman would have gone through with it. But she didn't, she never even considered it.
If she didn't even consider it , then legal abortion wouldn't have stopped you from being born.


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17 Nov 2012, 1:14 pm

hanyo wrote:
TrainofLove wrote:
Seabass wrote:
mechanicalgirl39 wrote:
Seabass wrote:
What if it happens multiple times? Should she just get abortion after abortion?


Yes.


I say yes too. If she chooses, that is. It's up to her. But I would have no problem with her making that choice. Eventually though if there are any birth control methods she could get and use she would probably eventually use them rather than go through the pain and hassle of getting abortions.

After my second pregnancy Planned Parenthood offered me Norplant which I got and once it was time to get that out I had stopped having sex.

I say yes as well, though she should also consider what she's doing about her physical security, where she lives, locks on her doors, etc. Just as a woman who has accidental pregnancies one after another should examine and reconsider what she's doing about birth control.

I'm not for blaming the victim, at all. But if someone finds themselves a victim over and over again, they need to do some self-assessment for victim issues.



Last edited by SpiritBlooms on 18 Nov 2012, 1:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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17 Nov 2012, 1:36 pm

SpiritBlooms wrote:
hanyo wrote:
TrainofLove wrote:
Seabass wrote:
mechanicalgirl39 wrote:
Seabass wrote:
What if it happens multiple times? Should she just get abortion after abortion?


Yes.


I say yes too. Eventually though if there are any birth control methods she could get and use she would probably eventually use them rather than go through the pain and hassle of getting abortions.

After my second pregnancy Planned Parenthood offered me Norplant which I got and once it was time to get that out I had stopped having sex.

I say yes as well, though she should also consider what she's doing about her physical security, where she lives, locks on her doors, etc. Just as a woman who has accidental pregnancies one after another should examine and reconsider what she's doing about birth control.

I'm not for blaming the victim, at all. But if someone finds themselves a victim over and over again, they need to do some self-assessment for victim issues.

Wow...so we're not just about encouraging mothers to be killers, we want them to be SERIAL killers!

Well, that's all I have to say about that. Whatever. But I do agree with your last sentence there 100%.



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17 Nov 2012, 2:08 pm

Vexcalibur wrote:
Quote:
But if you give consent, then get preggers (modern birth control is pretty reliable so chances of this happening should be low), the responsible, right thing to do would be to have the baby.
The responsible, right thing to do is to abort unwanted pregnancies as quickly as possible.

Condoms have a 3% failure rate. This means that for each 33 women that have sex today using condoms, the expected number of cases in which the condom fails is 1.


Actually that would be ducking responsibility, the woman chose to have sex, both the man and the woman in that situation should have to deal with the consequences.

What you are essentially saying is it is okay to commit infanticide if the child is "incovenient," and this is why the overwhelming majorities of abortions take place...

Abortion is essentially legalized infanticide.



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17 Nov 2012, 4:16 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SX3JnUhTaE&feature=related[/youtube]I asked Mario the same question and here is his answer.


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Last edited by AspieOtaku on 17 Nov 2012, 11:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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17 Nov 2012, 5:35 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
Vexcalibur wrote:
Quote:
But if you give consent, then get preggers (modern birth control is pretty reliable so chances of this happening should be low), the responsible, right thing to do would be to have the baby.
The responsible, right thing to do is to abort unwanted pregnancies as quickly as possible.

Condoms have a 3% failure rate. This means that for each 33 women that have sex today using condoms, the expected number of cases in which the condom fails is 1.


Actually that would be ducking responsibility, the woman chose to have sex, both the man and the woman in that situation should have to deal with the consequences.

And abortion is a way of dealing with the consequences.



Quote:
What you are essentially saying is it is okay to commit infanticide
No, because it is not infanticide. It is abortion.

It is the most responsible thing to do to abort AS FAST AS POSSIBLE. This guarantees the thing that is being killed does not develop enough to even suffer and also has the best safety rate.



Quote:
if the child is "incovenient," and this is why the overwhelming majorities of abortions take place...

I do not still get the idea that saying that it is just for "convenience" somehow proves something is wrong. I do tons and tons of things for my own convenience. Because I am not stupid. So, when I look for the best price for a certain computer, I do it for my own convenience. Whenever I use a complaint phone line, I look for my own convenience.

Quote:
Abortion is essentially legalized infanticide.

Nope.


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17 Nov 2012, 5:41 pm

AngelRho wrote:
SpiritBlooms wrote:
hanyo wrote:
TrainofLove wrote:
Seabass wrote:
mechanicalgirl39 wrote:
Seabass wrote:
What if it happens multiple times? Should she just get abortion after abortion?


Yes.


I say yes too. Eventually though if there are any birth control methods she could get and use she would probably eventually use them rather than go through the pain and hassle of getting abortions.

After my second pregnancy Planned Parenthood offered me Norplant which I got and once it was time to get that out I had stopped having sex.

I say yes as well, though she should also consider what she's doing about her physical security, where she lives, locks on her doors, etc. Just as a woman who has accidental pregnancies one after another should examine and reconsider what she's doing about birth control.

I'm not for blaming the victim, at all. But if someone finds themselves a victim over and over again, they need to do some self-assessment for victim issues.

Wow...so we're not just about encouraging mothers to be killers, we want them to be SERIAL killers!

Well, that's all I have to say about that. Whatever. But I do agree with your last sentence there 100%.

Depends on whether you consider abortion killing. But consider the alternative. Multiple children who are the result of multiple rapes on the same woman? I mean, come on, there can't be a much better recipe for a dysfunctional family. I'm not as concerned about multiple abortions as I am about the psychological health of a family. There are enough kids who grow up in horrible circumstances as it is.



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17 Nov 2012, 6:50 pm

SpiritBlooms wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
SpiritBlooms wrote:
hanyo wrote:
TrainofLove wrote:
Seabass wrote:
mechanicalgirl39 wrote:
Seabass wrote:
What if it happens multiple times? Should she just get abortion after abortion?


Yes.


I say yes too. Eventually though if there are any birth control methods she could get and use she would probably eventually use them rather than go through the pain and hassle of getting abortions.

After my second pregnancy Planned Parenthood offered me Norplant which I got and once it was time to get that out I had stopped having sex.

I say yes as well, though she should also consider what she's doing about her physical security, where she lives, locks on her doors, etc. Just as a woman who has accidental pregnancies one after another should examine and reconsider what she's doing about birth control.

I'm not for blaming the victim, at all. But if someone finds themselves a victim over and over again, they need to do some self-assessment for victim issues.

Wow...so we're not just about encouraging mothers to be killers, we want them to be SERIAL killers!

Well, that's all I have to say about that. Whatever. But I do agree with your last sentence there 100%.

Depends on whether you consider abortion killing. But consider the alternative. Multiple children who are the result of multiple rapes on the same woman? I mean, come on, there can't be a much better recipe for a dysfunctional family. I'm not as concerned about multiple abortions as I am about the psychological health of a family. There are enough kids who grow up in horrible circumstances as it is.

Maybe I see it differently. I had to deal with some truly awful things growing up. I got bullied by classmates and older kids all through school. The first 4 and 1/2 years of college were only marginally better, I got a good break for 2 and 1/2 years, and the same problems that have plagued me much of my life came back to haunt me. So what? It does me no good to whine about it. But I do work to improve my circumstances. There are some wonderful, bright, shining moments every day and some days are just heavenly. My kids don't have to go through what I went through, and one day they'll have their own opportunities to go above and beyond anything I could ever give them. And, hopefully, their children will have even more opportunities.

My point is each generation is responsible for ITS OWN actions, regardless of circumstance. What a beautiful, wondrously colored narrative we create when we refuse to be defined by what and where we came from! I couldn't ever deny my children that, and it's an injustice that some people are all too willing to deny themselves and their own children the same.



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18 Nov 2012, 1:13 am

AngelRho wrote:
Maybe I see it differently. I had to deal with some truly awful things growing up. I got bullied by classmates and older kids all through school. The first 4 and 1/2 years of college were only marginally better, I got a good break for 2 and 1/2 years, and the same problems that have plagued me much of my life came back to haunt me. So what? It does me no good to whine about it. But I do work to improve my circumstances. There are some wonderful, bright, shining moments every day and some days are just heavenly. My kids don't have to go through what I went through, and one day they'll have their own opportunities to go above and beyond anything I could ever give them. And, hopefully, their children will have even more opportunities.

My point is each generation is responsible for ITS OWN actions, regardless of circumstance. What a beautiful, wondrously colored narrative we create when we refuse to be defined by what and where we came from! I couldn't ever deny my children that, and it's an injustice that some people are all too willing to deny themselves and their own children the same.

Of course. But my statement was not intended to imply that children of a rape should or will be unhappy. It was to stress that if a woman chooses abortion she is choosing her freedom. If she chooses to have a child, she's choosing her freedom. If it's not a choice, then she is enslaved. To be enslaved by rape multiple times, that is not a healthy situation for a woman or any children she raises. Yes, people can be resilient and courageous, and if she chooses to have the child, bless her. It's a courageous decision. But so is choosing the option of abortion - to free herself from what she sees as something else - whatever she sees that pregnancy as, or the memory of how it came about.

I've known people who survived abusive situations and did not seem the worse for it, in fact in some cases it's possible it made them stronger. But I've seen the opposite as well.

It's up to the individual to decide what they can live with and what they can't. Whether it's one time or multiple times.



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18 Nov 2012, 6:55 am

SpiritBlooms wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
Maybe I see it differently. I had to deal with some truly awful things growing up. I got bullied by classmates and older kids all through school. The first 4 and 1/2 years of college were only marginally better, I got a good break for 2 and 1/2 years, and the same problems that have plagued me much of my life came back to haunt me. So what? It does me no good to whine about it. But I do work to improve my circumstances. There are some wonderful, bright, shining moments every day and some days are just heavenly. My kids don't have to go through what I went through, and one day they'll have their own opportunities to go above and beyond anything I could ever give them. And, hopefully, their children will have even more opportunities.

My point is each generation is responsible for ITS OWN actions, regardless of circumstance. What a beautiful, wondrously colored narrative we create when we refuse to be defined by what and where we came from! I couldn't ever deny my children that, and it's an injustice that some people are all too willing to deny themselves and their own children the same.

Of course. But my statement was not intended to imply that children of a rape should or will be unhappy. It was to stress that if a woman chooses abortion she is choosing her freedom. If she chooses to have a child, she's choosing her freedom. If it's not a choice, then she is enslaved. To be enslaved by rape multiple times, that is not a healthy situation for a woman or any children she raises. Yes, people can be resilient and courageous, and if she chooses to have the child, bless her. It's a courageous decision. But so is choosing the option of abortion - to free herself from what she sees as something else - whatever she sees that pregnancy as, or the memory of how it came about.

I've known people who survived abusive situations and did not seem the worse for it, in fact in some cases it's possible it made them stronger. But I've seen the opposite as well.

It's up to the individual to decide what they can live with and what they can't. Whether it's one time or multiple times.

Understood. And I don't find fault with a rape victim for infanticide, even it it's her decision. The guilt for something like that lies with the rapist.