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Vexcalibur
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04 Aug 2011, 7:20 pm

Everyone is far left when you are a far right nut.


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Blue_Jackets_fan
Deinonychus
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04 Aug 2011, 7:20 pm

Vexcalibur wrote:
Everyone is far left when you are a far right nut.


I'd rather be a "far-right nut" than a far-left kool-aid drinker with no nuts.



Sweetleaf
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05 Aug 2011, 12:52 am

Well they have better access to healthcare....and don't throw people who cannot pay for treatment out onto the street like they apparently do here...oh yes socialized healthcare actually helps people and is not all about money.



AstroGeek
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05 Aug 2011, 10:23 pm

Blue_Jackets_fan wrote:
AstroGeek wrote:
Blue_Jackets_fan wrote:
Why shouldn't the far-left support Castro?

Castro supports communism, wiping out capitalistism (including myself), giving citizens free health (if you can call it health care), and so on. These are exactly what the far-left wants.

The reason some of the economically far left wouldn't support Cuba is because there are some people on the far left who believe in democracy. Believe it or not, some on the far left believe that people need to decide that socialism is a good idea for themselves rather than have it forced on them.

Also, I don't get your comment about health care. Cuba actually has a very good health care system. The average life expectancy is slightly higher than in the USA (the only countries in the Americas with higher life expectancy are Chile and Canada--I guess the Cs all do well), and infant mortality rates are lower than some industrialized countries. It isn't a perfect system, of course, because Cuba is a very poor country. But honestly, I think it sounds infinitely superior to the barbaric system that the USA has. And that's not just because I'm left wing. I suspect that lots of Canadians would choose Cuba's health care system over the American one. Not the Cuban form of government, of course, but still the health care system.

I just showed your post to a good friend of mine who were forced to fled Cuba with her family to the USA when she was 8 years old on a boat that could barely float.
I would just love to tell you what she said but I think I'm better off not to least I want to eat a ban here.
This is what health care is really like in Cuba (and no this isn't pictures of Nazi Death Camps)
http://www.therealcuba.com/Page10.htm

First of all, I do not mean to offend your friend. I apologize for that. I have done some more reading and I see that the issue is far from cut and dry--I should not have been so confident in my statements. There are definitely severe shortages in drugs and hospitals are not in great condition (to put it mildly). And I will not defend the lack of choice given to the patient, especially in respect to abortions (although some reports gave conflicting information on that, so that is not a clean cut issue either--but the more pessimistic reports do sound more believable). But at the end of the day the life expectancy is still good, so obviously this system, although it could be much better, can't be too horrible. Overall, I think it is admirable that they do provide universal healthcare, and to a degree some of these problems can be attributed to how poor Cuba is. Not all, perhaps not even most, by any means--the Cuban government should certainly spend less on the military and more on the health system. That said, considering how poor Cubans are they are probably better off with this system than with the American one (which they couldn't afford). And universal healthcare is still a good idea, even if Cuba has a poor implementation of it--because a system where only those who can afford healthcare receive it is barbaric.

PS: I stress that I was in the wrong in my earlier post--I was making statements about which I was not informed. I apologize that I offended your friend--she has every right to her opinion, having experienced Cuba first hand. If you see her I hope you wouldn't mind passing on my apology.



Blue_Jackets_fan
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06 Aug 2011, 11:59 pm

AstroGeek wrote:
Blue_Jackets_fan wrote:
AstroGeek wrote:
Blue_Jackets_fan wrote:
Why shouldn't the far-left support Castro?

Castro supports communism, wiping out capitalistism (including myself), giving citizens free health (if you can call it health care), and so on. These are exactly what the far-left wants.

The reason some of the economically far left wouldn't support Cuba is because there are some people on the far left who believe in democracy. Believe it or not, some on the far left believe that people need to decide that socialism is a good idea for themselves rather than have it forced on them.

Also, I don't get your comment about health care. Cuba actually has a very good health care system. The average life expectancy is slightly higher than in the USA (the only countries in the Americas with higher life expectancy are Chile and Canada--I guess the Cs all do well), and infant mortality rates are lower than some industrialized countries. It isn't a perfect system, of course, because Cuba is a very poor country. But honestly, I think it sounds infinitely superior to the barbaric system that the USA has. And that's not just because I'm left wing. I suspect that lots of Canadians would choose Cuba's health care system over the American one. Not the Cuban form of government, of course, but still the health care system.

I just showed your post to a good friend of mine who were forced to fled Cuba with her family to the USA when she was 8 years old on a boat that could barely float.
I would just love to tell you what she said but I think I'm better off not to least I want to eat a ban here.
This is what health care is really like in Cuba (and no this isn't pictures of Nazi Death Camps)
http://www.therealcuba.com/Page10.htm

First of all, I do not mean to offend your friend. I apologize for that. I have done some more reading and I see that the issue is far from cut and dry--I should not have been so confident in my statements. There are definitely severe shortages in drugs and hospitals are not in great condition (to put it mildly). And I will not defend the lack of choice given to the patient, especially in respect to abortions (although some reports gave conflicting information on that, so that is not a clean cut issue either--but the more pessimistic reports do sound more believable). But at the end of the day the life expectancy is still good, so obviously this system, although it could be much better, can't be too horrible. Overall, I think it is admirable that they do provide universal healthcare, and to a degree some of these problems can be attributed to how poor Cuba is. Not all, perhaps not even most, by any means--the Cuban government should certainly spend less on the military and more on the health system. That said, considering how poor Cubans are they are probably better off with this system than with the American one (which they couldn't afford). And universal healthcare is still a good idea, even if Cuba has a poor implementation of it--because a system where only those who can afford healthcare receive it is barbaric.

PS: I stress that I was in the wrong in my earlier post--I was making statements about which I was not informed. I apologize that I offended your friend--she has every right to her opinion, having experienced Cuba first hand. If you see her I hope you wouldn't mind passing on my apology.


Anyone from Miami Florida will tell you if you ever wear a shirt that says "I love Castro" around Little Havana, it will be the last thing you ever do.
The Cubans didn't fled Cuba just for Disney World.



AstroGeek
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07 Aug 2011, 7:46 am

Blue_Jackets_fan wrote:
AstroGeek wrote:
Blue_Jackets_fan wrote:
AstroGeek wrote:
Blue_Jackets_fan wrote:
Why shouldn't the far-left support Castro?

Castro supports communism, wiping out capitalistism (including myself), giving citizens free health (if you can call it health care), and so on. These are exactly what the far-left wants.

The reason some of the economically far left wouldn't support Cuba is because there are some people on the far left who believe in democracy. Believe it or not, some on the far left believe that people need to decide that socialism is a good idea for themselves rather than have it forced on them.

Also, I don't get your comment about health care. Cuba actually has a very good health care system. The average life expectancy is slightly higher than in the USA (the only countries in the Americas with higher life expectancy are Chile and Canada--I guess the Cs all do well), and infant mortality rates are lower than some industrialized countries. It isn't a perfect system, of course, because Cuba is a very poor country. But honestly, I think it sounds infinitely superior to the barbaric system that the USA has. And that's not just because I'm left wing. I suspect that lots of Canadians would choose Cuba's health care system over the American one. Not the Cuban form of government, of course, but still the health care system.

I just showed your post to a good friend of mine who were forced to fled Cuba with her family to the USA when she was 8 years old on a boat that could barely float.
I would just love to tell you what she said but I think I'm better off not to least I want to eat a ban here.
This is what health care is really like in Cuba (and no this isn't pictures of Nazi Death Camps)
http://www.therealcuba.com/Page10.htm

First of all, I do not mean to offend your friend. I apologize for that. I have done some more reading and I see that the issue is far from cut and dry--I should not have been so confident in my statements. There are definitely severe shortages in drugs and hospitals are not in great condition (to put it mildly). And I will not defend the lack of choice given to the patient, especially in respect to abortions (although some reports gave conflicting information on that, so that is not a clean cut issue either--but the more pessimistic reports do sound more believable). But at the end of the day the life expectancy is still good, so obviously this system, although it could be much better, can't be too horrible. Overall, I think it is admirable that they do provide universal healthcare, and to a degree some of these problems can be attributed to how poor Cuba is. Not all, perhaps not even most, by any means--the Cuban government should certainly spend less on the military and more on the health system. That said, considering how poor Cubans are they are probably better off with this system than with the American one (which they couldn't afford). And universal healthcare is still a good idea, even if Cuba has a poor implementation of it--because a system where only those who can afford healthcare receive it is barbaric.

PS: I stress that I was in the wrong in my earlier post--I was making statements about which I was not informed. I apologize that I offended your friend--she has every right to her opinion, having experienced Cuba first hand. If you see her I hope you wouldn't mind passing on my apology.


Anyone from Miami Florida will tell you if you ever wear a shirt that says "I love Castro" around Little Havana, it will be the last thing you ever do.
The Cubans didn't fled Cuba just for Disney World.

I was not saying that I love Castro--don't misunderstand me. I think (and have always thought) that he sounds like quite an unpleasant man--not as bad as the likes of Stalin or Mao, but royally unpleasant and tyrannicle all the same.



ephestia
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11 Aug 2011, 8:02 am

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
In Cuba you can go to jail if your house burns down.


Well I have been told that in a country north of Cuba
go to jail if you look at people's eyes..........