Your political opinions on abortion and capital punishment

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abortion and capital punishment: your opinions?
pro-life; anti death penalty 14%  14%  [ 13 ]
pro-life; pro death penalty 9%  9%  [ 9 ]
pro-choice; anti death penalty 46%  46%  [ 44 ]
pro-choice; pro death penalty 31%  31%  [ 29 ]
Total votes : 95

Oodain
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03 Aug 2011, 3:05 am

actually it seems there is a 30 year limit if charged with crimes against humanity and the possibility of extending his sentence by 5 year periods indefinately if deemed to be a danger to the public (almost a given.)


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I_am_Kira
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03 Aug 2011, 10:22 pm

Pro-life and Pro-death penalty. I believe that everyone has the right to be born, to live, being a gift from God, but if they infringe on someone else's right to be alive (ie murdering someone else, raping them), then the offender no longer has the right to be alive, because by their actions, they have proven that they are no better than an animal, having thrown their human dignity away. It saddens me that the highest % so far of this poll support the exact opposite view. I don't understand the logic behind people who are pro-choice and anti-death penalty. They say it's ok to kill innocent, unborn children, but it's NOT ok to kill monsters that deprive other people of life and joy. "Oh, a fetus isn't a human". Well guess what, you were a fetus once too! And so was I, and everyone else alive today. And yes, the murders and rapists too, but could we tell at birth? No. Once they have revealed their true, evil nature, then they must face their judgment. Fear is a helpful deterant to crime. Make the penalties harsher, and less people, out of that fear, will want to commit such henious acts of evil. As it stands now, recidvism rates are ridiculously high; 70% of inmates return to jail within 3 years of their release, and that's only the ones who are caught again. We, as the tax payers, pay for these evildoers to eat, be clothed, etc. Why should we pay for a murder and/or a rapist to live while there are so many better uses for our money, especially with the economy and all. Why does the rapist get the food that should instead go to a staving family of innocents? And enough with "The death penalty's inhumane!" Nonsense. Does living a pointless, dull existence inside a prison cell for all of your life sound humane? Death is a form of mercy, so executing bad people actually does them a favour by getting it over with faster. Someone's going to respond, "Well, the cost of the trails is more expansive, blah blah blah." How much does it cost to build a noose? As for abortion, why would ANY AS support it? When they do pre-natal testing and find out that the fetus is pre-disposed to AS, the rate of abortion sky-rockets. Why? Because, people hate what is different, like us. Supporting abortion as an Aspie is advocating for your own kind's anihilation. Not to mention, abortion further decays family norms, which are already pretty dismal in this day and age. It propagates the idea that couples no longer have to be responsible for their actions, which causes even worse societal issues that aren't particularly relavent to pro-life vs. pro-choice (feel free to ask me about them, though), and that innocent human lives are garbage. 93% of abortions occur simply because the child is unwanted, 6% for birth complications, and only 1% for rapes. By letting off rapists easily, they rape more girls, leading to more abortions. It's an endless cycle. I know I'm going to get many haters by my response, and you know what? Bite me. If you can't see the reason in this, then you're a lost cause. My only dismay is that, even among intelligent individuals like us Aspies, there are those who are willing to turn a blind eye to injustice. I thought we were better than that. As it turns out, many of you oppose these notions. I can only hope that at least some people saw the light of reason in what I'm saying. It's probably not very likely. Oh well. I tried. I'll sum this up: innocent people deserve to live, and bad people deserve to die. It's as simple as that.



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03 Aug 2011, 11:01 pm

I_am_Kira wrote:
Pro-life and Pro-death penalty. I believe that everyone has the right to be born, to live, being a gift from God, but if they infringe on someone else's right to be alive (ie murdering someone else, raping them), then the offender no longer has the right to be alive, because by their actions, they have proven that they are no better than an animal, having thrown their human dignity away. It saddens me that the highest % so far of this poll support the exact opposite view. I don't understand the logic behind people who are pro-choice and anti-death penalty. They say it's ok to kill innocent, unborn children, but it's NOT ok to kill monsters that deprive other people of life and joy. "Oh, a fetus isn't a human". Well guess what, you were a fetus once too! And so was I, and everyone else alive today. And yes, the murders and rapists too, but could we tell at birth? No. Once they have revealed their true, evil nature, then they must face their judgment. Fear is a helpful deterant to crime. Make the penalties harsher, and less people, out of that fear, will want to commit such henious acts of evil. As it stands now, recidvism rates are ridiculously high; 70% of inmates return to jail within 3 years of their release, and that's only the ones who are caught again. We, as the tax payers, pay for these evildoers to eat, be clothed, etc. Why should we pay for a murder and/or a rapist to live while there are so many better uses for our money, especially with the economy and all. Why does the rapist get the food that should instead go to a staving family of innocents? And enough with "The death penalty's inhumane!" Nonsense. Does living a pointless, dull existence inside a prison cell for all of your life sound humane? Death is a form of mercy, so executing bad people actually does them a favour by getting it over with faster. Someone's going to respond, "Well, the cost of the trails is more expansive, blah blah blah." How much does it cost to build a noose? As for abortion, why would ANY AS support it? When they do pre-natal testing and find out that the fetus is pre-disposed to AS, the rate of abortion sky-rockets. Why? Because, people hate what is different, like us. Supporting abortion as an Aspie is advocating for your own kind's anihilation. Not to mention, abortion further decays family norms, which are already pretty dismal in this day and age. It propagates the idea that couples no longer have to be responsible for their actions, which causes even worse societal issues that aren't particularly relavent to pro-life vs. pro-choice (feel free to ask me about them, though), and that innocent human lives are garbage. 93% of abortions occur simply because the child is unwanted, 6% for birth complications, and only 1% for rapes. By letting off rapists easily, they rape more girls, leading to more abortions. It's an endless cycle. I know I'm going to get many haters by my response, and you know what? Bite me. If you can't see the reason in this, then you're a lost cause. My only dismay is that, even among intelligent individuals like us Aspies, there are those who are willing to turn a blind eye to injustice. I thought we were better than that. As it turns out, many of you oppose these notions. I can only hope that at least some people saw the light of reason in what I'm saying. It's probably not very likely. Oh well. I tried. I'll sum this up: innocent people deserve to live, and bad people deserve to die. It's as simple as that.



par·a·graph
   /ˈpærəˌgræf, -ˌgrɑf/ [par-uh-graf, -grahf]
noun
1.
a distinct portion of written or printed matter dealing with a particular idea, usually beginning with an indentation on a new line.
2.
a paragraph mark.
3.
a note, item, or brief article, as in a newspaper.



ScientistOfSound
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04 Aug 2011, 1:55 am

Pro-Choice & Anti Death Penalty.

As much as I don't like the idea of senseless abortions, I think there should still be in place for women who are raped and do not want children.
I'm anti death penalty because in my opinion by taking somebodies life you're on the same level as them.
(Only replying to the thread, no debates please about how I'm a "scumbag liberal")



I_am_Kira
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04 Aug 2011, 11:57 am

[/quote]
par·a·graph
   /ˈpærəˌgræf, -ˌgrɑf/ [par-uh-graf, -grahf]
noun
1.
a distinct portion of written or printed matter dealing with a particular idea, usually beginning with an indentation on a new line.
2.
a paragraph mark.
3.
a note, item, or brief article, as in a newspaper.[/quote]

Is that all you can say? Par-a-graph? Have you any feasible counter-arguement? No, you don't. That's why all you can do is criticize the length of my arguement. In case you haven't noticed, I'll point it out for you: this is a POLITICAL forum. Not a LITERARY forum. The reason why you cannot come up with any POLITICAL counter-arguement is that because you have nothing worth saying that is even remotely logical. Good day.



blauSamstag
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04 Aug 2011, 12:17 pm

I_am_Kira wrote:

par·a·graph
   /ˈpærəˌgræf, -ˌgrɑf/ [par-uh-graf, -grahf]
noun
1.
a distinct portion of written or printed matter dealing with a particular idea, usually beginning with an indentation on a new line.
2.
a paragraph mark.
3.
a note, item, or brief article, as in a newspaper.[/quote]

Is that all you can say? Par-a-graph? Have you any feasible counter-arguement? No, you don't. That's why all you can do is criticize the length of my arguement. In case you haven't noticed, I'll point it out for you: this is a POLITICAL forum. Not a LITERARY forum. The reason why you cannot come up with any POLITICAL counter-arguement is that because you have nothing worth saying that is even remotely logical. Good day.[/quote]

I didn't criticize the length of your argument, i criticized the fact that it is hard to read, so hard that i suspect it is scarcely worth reading.

I think you oversimplify the statistic for 93% of abortions being because the baby is "unwanted".

I propose that a lot of people don't want a baby because they know they can't properly care for it.



Oodain
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04 Aug 2011, 12:20 pm

i had the exact same reaction to kira's post as he did.

it has nothing to do with anything other than the fact that it is very hard to actually read his post because of format(my perception anyway)

the world is larger than the us the rates he show would need some sources and context.

he also makes some very arogant assumptions "if you cannot.... lost cause...."

also nothing is ever that simple, nothing at all not even why you wash your hands after emptying your bladder.
if he still think so then please define innocent and bad in a way that is objectively verifiable for all humans, he is making the positive claim here after all.

so yes i could try to sort through that whole mess of a post and dig out what could be seen as valid arguments but in reality i shouldnt even have wasted this time on what is clearly more of an emotional rant than an actual argument.

**edit** serious case of misteken poster **edit2** or not, then again i think my points carry.


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Last edited by Oodain on 04 Aug 2011, 12:53 pm, edited 3 times in total.

mechanicalgirl39
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04 Aug 2011, 12:29 pm

Anti death penalty because innocents can be convicted

Pro choice because women are f*****g human beings, not baby capsules.


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04 Aug 2011, 12:35 pm

I'll go ahead and restate my argument simply.

Pro-death-penalty - in extreme cases, because some people are no better than unruly dogs.

Pro-choice - because we can't stop people from having very good reasons to not want to have to raise a child. Necessary evil. I don't believe that any sane person has an easy time deciding to end a pregnancy.



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04 Aug 2011, 1:45 pm

My views are a bit more nuanced, so I didn't answer any. I think abortion should be legal in instances of rape, teenage pregnancy, or life threatening health conditions for the mother. However, I don't think it should just be legal for anyone who doesn't want to have to take care of a kid. I think at some point people should take responsibility for their actions, mother and father, and that there is a sanctity to life that should be respected.

I also support Planned Parenthood, because 95% of what they do isn't related to abortions. Its mostly just education on safe sex, pap smears, cancer screenings, free birth control, and even abstinence education. No federal funding goes to the 5% that's related to abortions, and even if planned parenthood was scrapped, other hospitals would still offer the procedure.

I think abstinence-only is ridiculous, and the fact that such education programs avoid realistic discussions about sex to young people will only leave them ignorant if passions do kick in and they decide to act on them. Its egotistical for humans to think they can control nature, whether its environmental or related to human behavior itself. You can only mitigate it.



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04 Aug 2011, 2:05 pm

JNathanK wrote:
My views are a bit more nuanced, so I didn't answer any. I think abortion should be legal in instances of rape, teenage pregnancy, or life threatening health conditions for the mother. However, I don't think it should just be legal for anyone who doesn't want to have to take care of a kid. I think at some point people should take responsibility for their actions, mother and father, and that there is a sanctity to life that should be respected.


I agree that the sanctity of life should be respected. However, like many people, i had a life changing event relating to the subject. Mine was just a little different than most.

About 12 years ago, I was one of 3 or 4 people in my city with the exact same name, but the only one with a listed phone number.

It turns out that one of my doppelgangers likes running around town with random women he doesn't know very well, or who may in fact be married.

So I started getting these late night phone calls from some guy who was demanding to speak with his wife, or for his wife to come home, or just to tell me that I'm a home wrecker. Two or three a night. Always with a screaming infant in the background.

This went on for a couple months. I was as polite and rational as a man wrongfully accused of adultery can be. I explained over and over that he's got the wrong guy - he was sure he had the right guy because he got the number from his wife's phone bill.

I repeatedly gave him my address and asked him to come on over and see if his wife is in my apartment.

Over time, with enough pieces, i gleaned his story.

This was a guy who knocked up his highschool girlfriend, and then decided to "do the right thing". And unfortunately for father and baby, mother wasn't really interested in that scene.

The whole thing gave me a lot of stress, and probably did some psychological damage.

Ultimately i figured out the handle my doppelganger uses on the intenet, tracked him down, and told him to either stop dating married women or at least give them his actual phone number. And finally the calls stopped.

"Doing the right thing" in this case only served to make at least two and probably three people completely miserable. And one of them was a little baby who doesn't understand why he can't have his mother's attention.

Some people absolutely should not procreate.

I can't decide if it's worse to abort a fetus or to force a child to grow up in a dysfunctional family.

So I'm unwilling to argue that they should always be obliged to raise the child.



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04 Aug 2011, 2:24 pm

@blausamtag

Yah, I guess I don't really have the strongest opinions against abortion. I have a lot of mixed feelings too. Like, what if someone just gets drunk and accidentally has a kid with someone who's a totally incompatible headcase? They probably shouldn't live with each other, and its a shame the kid has to live in that situation. I wish people would just get each other and not be so confused. The world would be a lot better. The world would have more dignity and sanctity to it if people recognized sanctity in it, whether its relating to infants or fully grown adults.



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04 Aug 2011, 2:31 pm

The nut that cannot be cracked is this:

There is absolutely no shortage of qualified prospective parents who want to adopt an infant. Emphasis on infant - they want to raise a child from square 1, without all the baggage and difficult conversations involved in adopting a kid who has already bonded with some other parent - or at least attempted to.

People wait on lists for years and years for the opportunity to adopt an infant.

But a majority of women who decide not to have an abortion decide to try to raise the child, whether or not it is a realistic proposition.

There is a severe shortage of qualified prospective parents who want to adopt a kid with emotional problems.



JNathanK
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04 Aug 2011, 4:39 pm

blauSamstag wrote:
The nut that cannot be cracked is this:

There is absolutely no shortage of qualified prospective parents who want to adopt an infant. Emphasis on infant - they want to raise a child from square 1, without all the baggage and difficult conversations involved in adopting a kid who has already bonded with some other parent - or at least attempted to.

People wait on lists for years and years for the opportunity to adopt an infant.

But a majority of women who decide not to have an abortion decide to try to raise the child, whether or not it is a realistic proposition.

There is a severe shortage of qualified prospective parents who want to adopt a kid with emotional problems.


I'm glad that I have loving parents, and I wish more people could say the same. However, the way I look at it is some people have been driven in their lives to do a lot more in life because adversity and those less than ideal upbringings. So, I'm just going to have to say that we need to understand that our actions and behavioral patterns are sacred. They have consequences, and they can affect not only the course of our own lives but others around us as well. I also think we need to pay more attention to the Foster Care System too and invest in it.

I really would like to avoid abortions as much as much as possible , because I'd like a world where all that come are wanted and are able to get something out of the human experience. That's the problem I have with certain types of Euthanasia too.



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04 Aug 2011, 4:53 pm

Yes, life has sanctity. And real, thinking, feeling people have more of that sanctity than embryos or fetuses.

'Responsibility' is not an argument for forcing someone to give up control of their body and health.


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05 Aug 2011, 12:19 am

I think that abortion should be legal until the fetus is determined to be viable by doctors.

I don't think that there should be a death penalty. BUT, I think that instead of imprisoning/executing people directly people we should just take away their rights. For example: a convicted murderer has no right to security/to not be killed. That way justice will surely be meted out, but it will not be by the state.