Can someone have more than 1 autistic spectrum disorder?

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2ukenkerl
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30 Jul 2011, 11:04 pm

Lucywlf wrote:
My boys' diagnosis is Autism and PDDNOS.


Maybe the doctor meant that it was PDD-NOS which is an autistic disorder. THAT would be a valid diagnosis. But there are only two autistic disorders defined, and they are kanners, aka autism, and AS. PDD-NOS means it is autstic, but doesn't fit either.



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30 Jul 2011, 11:04 pm

PDD-NOS is also known as atypical autism. Just like Asperger's, PDD-NOS is a kind of autism.

So, you could say, "My child is autistic; he has PDD-NOS."

It is like saying, "My pet is a cat; she is Siamese."

Or, I suppose, for PDD-NOS, it should be "My pet is a cat; she's a mixed-breed"! PDD-NOS is the alley cat of autism diagnoses--a bit of everything, nothing in particular, and the most common sort out there. :)


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Iloveshoujoai
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30 Jul 2011, 11:16 pm

Sounds a bit like a completely blind person claiming they are color blind, or a person claiming to have both dark blue and light blue eyes, or claiming they have both black and brown hair. It's a spectrum, it doesn't make much sense to say that one person can be in two separate positions on that spectrum. There may be small differences in the diagnoses of each but ultimately to most doctors classic autism vs. Asperger's is a matter of the severity of the symptoms and not necessarily much else.



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30 Jul 2011, 11:31 pm

NVLD, PDD, AS, HFA = Basically interchangeable terms. They basically mean the same thing, but there kinda sorta not all that much but sort of different.

AS can be co-morbid with ADD, which is not exactly an autism spectrum disorder, but is very similar.

Labels are very annoying as trying to pin down exactly what all the symptoms are and how they react with other possible comorbid problems, it's all very confusing and annyoing.

But autism is autism.


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littlelily613
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31 Jul 2011, 12:26 am

Fragmented wrote:
NVLD, PDD, AS, HFA = Basically interchangeable terms. They basically mean the same thing, but there kinda sorta not all that much but sort of different.


I get what you are saying and am being over technical, but HFA is not always interchangeable with AS. AS is on the high-functioning end of the spectrum, and therefore is HFA. On the other hand, HFA can also be high-functioning classic autism which is not interchangeable with AS. I have moderate classic autism, placed on the high-functioning end of things. I do not have AS nor do I fall into the description for NVLD (the majority of people with classic autism/HFA do not, while the majority of people with AS do).

Fragmented wrote:
AS can be co-morbid with ADD, which is not exactly an autism spectrum disorder, but is very similar.


I have moderate classic autism and my niece who lives with me has severe ADHD. Both being rather extreme forms of our respective disorders, no one has EVER mistaken us for having a similar condition.


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31 Jul 2011, 3:15 am

littlelily613 wrote:
I get what you are saying and am being over technical, but HFA is not always interchangeable with AS. AS is on the high-functioning end of the spectrum, and therefore is HFA. On the other hand, HFA can also be high-functioning classic autism which is not interchangeable with AS. I have moderate classic autism, placed on the high-functioning end of things. I do not have AS nor do I fall into the description for NVLD (the majority of people with classic autism/HFA do not, while the majority of people with AS do).


Much of what I've read says that there are enough similarities that some people think they could be interchangeable, and differences being between personalities. But I really only meant the labels are very similar. Classic autism was not even what I was talking about, I meant the label HFA that some people think is similar to AS. NVLD was only thrown in because it's similar to AS, they all have the similarity of being ASD's. Just saying.

littlelily613 wrote:
I have moderate classic autism and my niece who lives with me has severe ADHD. Both being rather extreme forms of our respective disorders, no one has EVER mistaken us for having a similar condition.


Again, did I say classic autism? As you said, you don't have AS. I'm talking about AS, very specifically AS.

Quote:
First of all, if the truth be told, both Asperger’s Syndrome and ADHD are probably themselves both spectrum disorders, with bleary margins wrapped around core characteristics that, at their heart, cannot be quantified or crystallized.
Quote:
With regard to ADHD and Asperger’s , there is a large overlap in symptomology. In my experience, roughly 60-70 percent of children with Asperger’s Syndrome have symptoms which are compatible with an ADHD diagnosis
http://www.aane.org/asperger_resources/ ... _adhd.html

I can bring other quotes from elsewhere that say the same. Many people get diagnosed with ADD before being recognized as having AS. Extremes are extreme for a reason. In the middleground where there are traits in both categories, it's very easy to confuse the two.


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Lucywlf
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31 Jul 2011, 6:39 am

It's what is written on their report.

Autism
and then under it
PDD--nonspecific.

I wasn't allowed at the time to read the entire report for myself, though.

And that was what I was told.

Geez, make one little mistake and everyone jumps down your throat. I thought this was supposed to be support.



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31 Jul 2011, 9:52 am

Lucywlf wrote:
It's what is written on their report.

Autism
and then under it
PDD--nonspecific.

I wasn't allowed at the time to read the entire report for myself, though.

And that was what I was told.

Geez, make one little mistake and everyone jumps down your throat. I thought this was supposed to be support.


I would read that as giving the general category of the diagnosis on the first line (autism), with the more specific PDD-NOS on the second line, rather than as 2 separate diagnoses. Therefore, the actual diagnosis is PDD-NOS. I can easily see how it could be read as two coexisting dxs, though.

I am unsure why you feel that anyone jumped down your throat, though. You made a statement which, factually, could not be true. Several people responded, politely, explaining why it could not be true.

As to this being a support site - "support" sometimes means making sure that everyone involved accurately understands the issue being discussed. While the explanations may have been more enthusiastically presented than you expected, I'd say that everybody in the thread is now clear on how a person could get two different diagnoses - primarily by seeing different doctors, with slightly differing views of the criteria - but that only one can actually be correct.



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31 Jul 2011, 10:23 am

I didn't see anyone jumping down your throat. You're posting on a board for people with ASD. We're going to be VERY blunt and whatnot. It's just our style of communication. Also, we like rules, and we like people to follow the rules, not least diagnostic ones.



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31 Jul 2011, 10:33 am

AlexWelshman wrote:
For example: can someone have aspergers as well as autism? I know someone who says he has autism & AS.


Simply put.. No

Explanation: An individual can present with symptoms that could be interpreted by some as HFA (HF classic autism) or by others as Aspergers. There are other disorders, such as PDD-NOS, that tend be closer related. The professional, or group of professionals, would choose one that they feel would be the best fit. I have never seen a dual-diagnosis.


There is often overlap with symptoms and a more specific ASD diagnosis can be tricky. This is one reason why the proposed DSM diagnostic system for autism may be changed to be just one diagnosis of ASD.


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31 Jul 2011, 10:40 am

Wanted to add that if someone says they have a dual-diagnosis by a professional, then I would not challenge it. They could exhibit signs that could be either. I would also not consider a dual diagnosis to be a gross error. But, I would love to hear why a professional chose to give a dual-diagnosis. I've never, ever heard of this before. There really is no reason to give a dual-diagnosis where the most common distinguishing criteria is the speech issue in most cases. And most other characteristics of an ASD can overlap.

So, conclusion.. ha ha ha ha.. Long winded today. It would be considered clinically incorrect, but not necessarily a gross error.


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31 Jul 2011, 2:38 pm

I apologize about the "jumping down my throat" comment. I was feeling sick this morning, and when I feel sick I feel persecuted, sometimes even when I'm not.

I get what you're saying about the diagnoses. I was just going by what read and was told. I hate it when, in interviews, people feel the need to dumb down things to the point of being incorrect.

Thanks for clarifying.

Oh, btw, I don't think PDD is the equivalent of alleycats or "mixed breeds". It goes against what all of you have been saying about the autism spectrum: that you can't have two diagnoses at once, therefore your autism "breed", by definition, cannot be mixed.

Maybe PDDs are the new species that have not yet been named.



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31 Jul 2011, 3:38 pm

Fragmented wrote:
Classic autism was not even what I was talking about, I meant the label HFA that some people think is similar to AS.


When a lot of professionals use the word HFA, they are frequently referring to high-functioning classic autism. That is why I mentioned that there is a difference, and that the two are not interchangeable. Studies have shown that there are enough differences between HFA and AS to keep the terms separate and not interchangeable (the book Asperger Syndrome is a good resource).

Fragmented wrote:
NVLD was only thrown in because it's similar to AS.


But NVLD is not interchangeable with HFA. If something is just going to be "thrown in" there rather ambiguously, then I may as well throw in some of my own facts as well. A study which came from that aforementioned book has said that more than 80% of people with AS qualify as NVLD; the vast majority of people with Aspergers also fit into NVLD. Meanwhile, only about 5% of HFA people qualify for NVLD. It was said that NVLD, AS, HFA all mean pretty much the same thing. That is false and deserved clarification.

Fragmented wrote:
Again, did I say classic autism? [...]I'm talking about AS, very specifically AS.


Then you should specifically say Aspergers, and not say that AS and HFA are the same thing when they are not always the same thing. Did I say you said classic autism? No, I did not. I simply added that HFA has more than one meaning. It was for the OTHER readers' benefit, not just you. Perhaps if you stopped twisting my words around, you wouldn't need to get so worked up about it?

Fragmented wrote:
I can bring other quotes from elsewhere that say the same. Many people get diagnosed with ADD before being recognized as having AS. Extremes are extreme for a reason. In the middleground where there are traits in both categories, it's very easy to confuse the two.


No amount of quotes you bring in will tell me that AS and ADHD are overlapping conditions. As someone who lives with ASD and as someone who is completely SURROUNDED by ADHD (niece, father, brother, nephew, and others), I know the two are very different. Some symptoms are similar (many are not), but that does not mean the conditions overlap. The reasons behind the handful of similar symptoms are very different, making ADHD a separate condition, not part of or overlapping with ASD. Yes, a lot of AS people have ADHD as a comorbid. That does not make ADHD part of AS. A lot of people with ASDs also have anxiety. That does not mean anxiety overlaps with ASDs. It just means people can have both conditions simultaneously, same as with ADHD. I would say that most of those that are "misdiagnosed" with ADHD are not really misdiagnosed at all (though for some that might be the case). Many of them likely have both conditions, and the AS was just missed.


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littlelily613
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31 Jul 2011, 3:42 pm

Lucywlf wrote:
It's what is written on their report.

Autism
and then under it
PDD--nonspecific.

I wasn't allowed at the time to read the entire report for myself, though.

And that was what I was told.

Geez, make one little mistake and everyone jumps down your throat. I thought this was supposed to be support.


"Everyone jumps down your throat"....what does that even mean?

Anyway, by the term "geez" I can tell you're irritated, and I really don't understand why since no one was attacking you. People were just pointing out that it is impossible to be diagnosed with classic autism and PDD-NOS. According to what you just wrote, it seems to me that "Autism" was an unnecessarily vague term to indicate today's term "Autism Spectrum Disorder". If a person has PDDNOS, that means they do not qualify for a diagnosis of classic autism. It was a simple clarification, and there is REALLY no need to think people are all ganging up on you.


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littlelily613
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31 Jul 2011, 3:49 pm

Lucywlf wrote:
I apologize about the "jumping down my throat" comment.


Oh okay. Still, I won't retract my comment questioning what that actually means. :? I think I get your implication, but I am at a loss to where all these metaphors that people use come from and how jumping down a person's threat implies a verbal attack. Not picking...and it is rhetorical curiousity....

Lucywlf wrote:
Oh, btw, I don't think PDD is the equivalent of alleycats or "mixed breeds". It goes against what all of you have been saying about the autism spectrum: that you can't have two diagnoses at once, therefore your autism "breed", by definition, cannot be mixed.

Maybe PDDs are the new species that have not yet been named.


I am not sure I get this....but all ASDs are PDDs. Everyone who is autistic or has aspergers or pddnos all have a PDD.

But like I said, I am not sure if I understood what you are saying.


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31 Jul 2011, 3:56 pm

littlelily613 wrote:
[quote="
A lot of AS people have ADHD as a comorbid. That does not make ADHD part of AS. A lot of people with ASDs also have anxiety. That does not mean anxiety overlaps with ASDs. It just means people can have both conditions simultaneously, same as with ADHD. I would say that most of those that are "misdiagnosed" with ADHD are not really misdiagnosed at all (though for some that might be the case). Many of them likely have both conditions, and the AS was just missed.

Just like a lot of people with autism (usually not aspergers) also have Learning Disabilities, but that doesn't mean LD's are a part of ASD does it? I agree.