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MoonMetropolis
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15 Aug 2011, 3:52 am

Up until now, I didn't think bipolar disorder and aspergers syndrome were compatible. Bipolar disorder is characterized by extreme emotional highs and lows in rapid succession, whereas aspies and autistics tend to have a hard time processing, understanding, and/or feeling emotions. To me, they almost seem like opposites. Is it truly possible for someone to have both bipolar disorder and aspergers syndrome? :?


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Davuardo
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15 Aug 2011, 4:15 am

I could be wrong here, I'm no Science Aficionado... but I've heard of quite a lot of cases on WP alone for the two being hand in hand. I suspected that they were almost sort of hand in hand. You could I guess be experiencing the massive illogical highs and lows of Bipolar while at the same time not being able to fully understand them because of Asperger Syndrome. Then again I could very well be barking up the completely wrong planet(haha geddit), let alone the wrong tree, as is also possible

Maybe the part about not being able to interpret them correctly adds to the issues of Bipolar, meaning that Aspies experience it worse?

Might be worth consulting an expert on that I think...

P.S. I've seen a few of your posts, you seem like a very interesting person, high five for personality!


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SmallFruitSong
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15 Aug 2011, 6:20 am

It's fairly possible to have both a mood disorder like BP and Asperger's.

I have Schizoaffective, BP type in combination with Asperger's - so part of my disorder involves bipolar mood swings. I experience hypomanias and severe depression.

With my hypomanias, it's not so much about emotions per se, although they play a part in it, but it also affects how I view the world, my responses to the environment and my behaviour. When I'm hypomanic, I need less sleep, I get racing thoughts [i.e. lots of thoughts happening at the same time], my energy levels go up, I'm much more sociable, my talking goes faster ["pressured speech"] and I tend to be more sexual [not promiscuous, I just want more sex]. I tend to be much more confident as well so I tend to throw myself into projects. Plus, everything seems to be more clearer and sped up, so I find it hard to slow down. During my last big hypomanic episode, I ended up drinking a lot because I felt like I needed something to calm down.

Before I was told that what I was experiencing were hypomanias, I didn't understand that it was a problem because it didn't affect my productivity or functioning. It was only later when I was talking to a psychiatrist that he noted that what I was telling him wasn't within the realm of normal mood fluctuations.

It's the same thing when I experience depression - there are emotions involved for me, but there are also behaviours and responses to the environment. I would feel apathetic, fatigued, and I would find myself losing my appetite and interest in anything. At my worst I would feel suicidal.

Before being medicated, I found that I didn't immediately cycle from hypomania to depression. I'd have periods where my mood was normal. I've also had mixed states before, where both symptoms of hypomania and depression are present, and they're not very nice.


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18 Aug 2011, 12:32 am

Yes, it is quite possible :) I have been diagnosed with both Aspergers and Bipolar, and this is how I think it can happen. Emotionally, my bipolar symptoms overcome my Aspie symptoms, particularly when my emotions are extreme. At the same time however, I'm very unaware of how or why I feel the extreme emotion I'm going through. In between these extreme bursts of emotion I'm quite emotionally disconnected and blank. That's how it is for me :)


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aspiesavant
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08 Feb 2015, 5:42 pm

The distinction between Autism, Dyspraxia, Dyslexia, Bi-Polar Disorder, Schizophrenia, OCD, ADHD and Borderline Personality Disorder is not clear-cut.

There's a significant overlap in symptoms and genetic correlation between each of these "disorders". Co-morbidity is also very common.

Personally, I lean towards the notion that Autism, Dyspraxia, Dyslexia, Bi-Polar Disorder, Schizophrenia, OCD, ADHD and Borderline Personality Disorder are not individual conditions but as different expressions of the same spectrum.

I would also argue that these are not disorders, but normal variations within human behavior that have been pathologized for no other reason but the rather eccentric and unusual behavior of people within, which makes them more difficult to manipulate and control.



Lnb1771
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12 Feb 2015, 2:06 pm

SmallFruitSong wrote:
It's fairly possible to have both a mood disorder like BP and Asperger's.

I have Schizoaffective, BP type in combination with Asperger's - so part of my disorder involves bipolar mood swings. I experience hypomanias and severe depression.


I have bipolar I (dx'd at age 41) and was dx'd autistic at age 3 although I can pass for NT in many situations.

Quote:
With my hypomanias, it's not so much about emotions per se, although they play a part in it, but it also affects how I view the world, my responses to the environment and my behaviour. When I'm hypomanic, I need less sleep, I get racing thoughts [i.e. lots of thoughts happening at the same time], my energy levels go up, I'm much more sociable, my talking goes faster ["pressured speech"] and I tend to be more sexual [not promiscuous, I just want more sex]. I tend to be much more confident as well so I tend to throw myself into projects. Plus, everything seems to be more clearer and sped up, so I find it hard to slow down. During my last big hypomanic episode, I ended up drinking a lot because I felt like I needed something to calm down.

When I experience mania (whether hypo or full blown) I experience those same symptoms (thoughts racing, pressured speech, everyone around me seems to be too slow). I too get more confident and post more online (so I have to be careful not to embarrass myself). Like right now, I am posting here and have been feeling an uptick in mood. I would characterize it as hypo manic at most. Not full blown b/c I'm still sleeping at night. When I was full blown manic, I was sleeping 3-5 hours/night despite the strongest sleep meds. I haven't tried alcohol to calm down so I can't comment on that.

Quote:
Before I was told that what I was experiencing were hypomanias, I didn't understand that it was a problem because it didn't affect my productivity or functioning. It was only later when I was talking to a psychiatrist that he noted that what I was telling him wasn't within the realm of normal mood fluctuations.

It's the same thing when I experience depression - there are emotions involved for me, but there are also behaviours and responses to the environment. I would feel apathetic, fatigued, and I would find myself losing my appetite and interest in anything. At my worst I would feel suicidal.


I had a friend, years back before my diagnosis, tell me that I was acting hypomanic. I was offended back then, but looking back...she was right. When I'm depressed I sleep more, engage in more monotonous activities (too much Farmville), have less motivation and don't post on message boards or check email.

Quote:
Before being medicated, I found that I didn't immediately cycle from hypomania to depression. I'd have periods where my mood was normal. I've also had mixed states before, where both symptoms of hypomania and depression are present, and they're not very nice.

My first full blown bipolar mania was "activated" by the death of my mother. Before that my mania's were "merely" hypomanic. I have finally found a med combination that keeps my mania AND depression in check. I've had mixed states before where I'd vacillate between high and low in a manner of minutes (rapid cycling?). Not fun!

Glad to see there's someone else out there like me :-D
Lydia



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13 Feb 2015, 1:42 pm

Everyone always thinks I am BiPolar and I have a lot of the symptoms but I am Aspie. They said it's Mood Disorder NOS


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omid
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17 Feb 2015, 6:04 am

I have bipolar and asperger's (although I have trouble convincing all docs I have seen about both but some say I have those). A doc I recently saw said it's common for people to have asperger's and bipolar at the same time.
It's a bad combination. I hate changes and it's THE VERY ME which is changing all the time. It's HELL.
It also interferes with diagnosis because when I first went for diagnosis I was manic as hell but when you are an introvert aspie they your mania doesn't manifest itself as classic mania because you wont go as ape s**t as the extroverts and they can't tell. at the same time you are disinhibited somewhat and would actually interact with people (although you dont really like it or want to). because of that they can't tell you have asperger's. I was "friends" with everyone in the clinic I was in at the time I was diagnosed with asperger's. at the surface. In reality I didn't care about any of them and cant remember any of their names. But I was manic and I had to talk to someone and they were just there and I somehow interacted with them. Left me very exhausted after the time in the clinic because they were so many people there and I had to interact with them because of my mania. It's a very s**tty combination.
Thanks to Topamax I don't have that anymore. Or at least to a much lesser extent.


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Let_It_Go
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23 Feb 2015, 10:29 pm

It's very possible.

I was a moderately autistic child, and I also had early-onset bipolar disorder. I would experience highs and lows, and often these disorders (combined with my generalized anxiety and ADHD) would play off of each other. That is to say, the disorders can sometimes combine (as in my case) and present as if they are one disorder. (For example, I could have a severe manic or down swing that causes me to get very upset and act out in an autistic way, such as biting myself, bashing my head, or throwing what some would call an autistic fit.) I'm currently on two medications for bipolar, which helps greatly, but there are occasionally undesirable down swings and up swings. In fact, I believe there was an article about this very circumstance years ago, but I can't seem to find it on the web...

Another point I would like to make is that autistic/asperger's people don't lack emotional reciprocity, necessarily. Autism spectrum and asperger's individuals often do desire social outlets. Many of us, however, simply have difficulty expressing our feelings or interacting in a socially acceptable way. I definitely feel emotions. I'm an extremely emotional person, and I do care about people. (People who don't feel any empathy whatsoever for others would be considered sociopathic, and that's an entirely different way of functioning.) Yet, I have trouble engaging in conversation in a way that shows that I care or that I am interested. For this reason, a lot of people mistake me for someone who is completely self-centered.

Summed up, though, the answer is yes. Bipolar and asperger's can easily go hand-in-hand in some individuals.



Ciphergarm
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09 Mar 2015, 11:33 am

Multiple doctors have diagnosed me with bipolar type 2 and autism spectrum disorder so there's that. I have highs and lows, manic phases but also have the traits of ASD. One doctor claimed I had borderline as well but I don't have an official diagnoses of that and really don't interact with enough people to really have it, I guess.



Campbell1324
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12 Mar 2015, 11:33 am

aspiesavant wrote:
I would also argue that these are not disorders, but normal variations within human behavior that have been pathologized for no other reason but the rather eccentric and unusual behavior of people within, which makes them more difficult to manipulate and control.


Hey, I think you ideas wrong about that subject... That just sort of sounds strange because it seems more or so the wrong way to think about these illnesses. They can't be controlled by willful behavior, which means they have to have medication for it (even though I've experienced times while ON medicine when I could be controlling it). Same goes with something like diabetes... you can't control that without medicine.

MoonMetropolis: I think you weren't informed. I have adult ADD and bipolar, and you already know I'm and aspie.



aspiesavant
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12 Mar 2015, 11:44 am

Campbell1324 wrote:
Hey, I think you ideas wrong about that subject... That just sort of sounds strange because it seems more or so the wrong way to think about these illnesses.


Autism is not an illness or disorder.

The arguments for considering homosexuality and transgender-ism mental disorders are far stronger than those for considering Autism a mental disorder.

Campbell1324 wrote:
They can't be controlled by willful behavior, which means they have to have medication for it (even though I've experienced times while ON medicine when I could be controlling it). Same goes with something like diabetes... you can't control that without medicine.


I've used Empathogens, Amphetamines and Psychedelics to help me with the negative symptoms of my Autism.

I don't need them, though. They make my life easier, but I can live without them.

Considering how many "neurotypicals" take anti-psychotic or anti-depressant medication, I don't really see how taking medication implies a mental disorder. In fact, I'd argue one has to be rather insane to feel "normal" in a society as crazy as post-modern Western society.



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15 Mar 2015, 12:40 am

Only 1 doctor out of the many doctors I had in my life has diagnosed me with bipolar disorder. All of the doctors I've seen recently except for her say I do not have bipolar for sure. 2 say autism spectrum disorder (along with my psychologist). 1 says Personality Disorder NOS (yea, vagueness!). 1, who ~15 years ago diagnosed me with both Asperger's Syndrome and Schizotypal Personality Disorder says that I am not on the autistic spectrum; instead, I have been on the schizophrenia spectrum for most of my life, referring to my tendency to have unusual thoughts and perceptions and cognitive disorganization--he notices I jump around some in my speech.

When I was a kid, I was put on lithium around 3rd grade or so, for a reason I don't know. My diagnoses then were PDD-NOS and ADHD and I was more or less exclusively in a special ed classroom.


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seadog
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15 Mar 2015, 3:29 pm

My mother was dignosed as BP. I feel she is Narissist and has a schizophrenia disorder. But u must realize we were also possibly abused because we didnt lisson, shut down, conform, we were hyper, could not and would not pay attention so we were yelled at all the time, critizied, belittled, possibly hit, screamed at, etc by parent, teachers an others. This has a heavey effect on our personality, and funtioning in this crazy world as adults. We become scared, nervous, sensitive, and more. So sometimes what the Drs see is from years of abuse, plain and simple. My mother had to be on meds because she would get very hyper and out of control, never sleeping and more. So I was raised by a mentally ill person on top of my condition. I'm 90 percent better because of my own work on the abuse and co-depencey issues I have. Look 4 books on helping u change 4 the better, baby steps always. :heart:



aspiesavant
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16 Mar 2015, 4:15 am

seadog wrote:
My mother was dignosed as BP. I feel she is Narissist and has a schizophrenia disorder. But u must realize we were also possibly abused because we didnt lisson, shut down, conform, we were hyper, could not and would not pay attention so we were yelled at all the time, critizied, belittled, possibly hit, screamed at, etc by parent, teachers an others.


My parents never forced me to conform, because they were rather odd ducks themselves, I guess.

I guess I was lucky my parents gave me a lot of freedom.

seadog wrote:
This has a heavey effect on our personality, and funtioning in this crazy world as adults. We become scared, nervous, sensitive, and more. So sometimes what the Drs see is from years of abuse, plain and simple.


In that case, the proper diagnosis would be Borderline Personality Disorder. BPD is typically correlated with parental abuse and/or other childhood abuse.

seadog wrote:
I'm 90 percent better because of my own work on the abuse and co-depencey issues I have. Look 4 books on helping u change 4 the better, baby steps always. :heart:


Sounds like you're on the right path. Good luck wih that!



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16 Mar 2015, 3:04 pm

MoonMetropolis wrote:
whereas aspies and autistics tend to have a hard time processing, understanding, and/or feeling emotions.


Here's where you're wrong. Autistics don't have any trouble feeling emotions, just processing and understanding them. Autism affects what stimuli triggers what emotions, and it can make you unable to feel certain social emotions such as embarrassment, but not the basic capacity to experience sadness, anger, fear and happiness is unaffected by autism. As a result, autism spectrum conditions can coexist just fine with bipolar disorder and other mood disorders.