Are the London Riots about Class Warfare Poor vs Rich ? As a

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pandabear
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15 Aug 2011, 9:18 pm

Inuyasha wrote:

If you had paid attention to Glenn Beck at all, you would have know that these probably are not isolated incidents, in fact he predicted stuff like this. He also pointed out that certain people in the government probably would want stuff like this to happen.

He also predicted hyperinflation, plus $5 per gallon for gasoline.

:roll:

ruveyn
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15 Aug 2011, 9:39 pm

pandabear wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

He also predicted hyperinflation, plus $5 per gallon for gasoline.

:roll:

In some places it is 4 dollars a gallon.

ruveyn

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15 Aug 2011, 10:38 pm

AceOfSpades wrote:

Raptor wrote:

Tequila wrote:

Quote:

You don't need the SAS, you just need the police to do their sodding job properly.

Then the police leave the non-rioting citizens to their own devices, unarmed of course.
So much for the notion of police protection…… :roll:

Isn't he for gun rights?

Who?????

techn0teen
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15 Aug 2011, 10:55 pm

Inuyasha wrote:

No you didn't fix it because it is a hell of a lot more than some, also your reversion to blaming Bush is really getting old.

The point is not everything is anti-business. I thought extending tax breaks for wealthy Americans was very pro-business. I suppose "many" is a better substitute than "some things".

And who is blaming Bush? I never said, "It's Bushes fault". The Bush administration and Obama administration did things to make the economy worse. I typed that in my post. Neither of them helped. Both deserve blame.

Quote:

The housing bubble stemmed from the Community Reinvestment Act (specifically changes to CRA in 1995 under President Clinton), which forced banks to issue over a trillion dollars in junk loans.

I know this. That is why I said legislation from both Democratic and Republican parties. I don't let Democrats off the hook.

Quote:

In essense, Government policies from before Bush even took office caused this mess.

(eye twitches)

techn0teen wrote:

Our problems mainly rest on poor legislation passed by both Republican and Democratic administrations of the past

Your judgement on what I said is very unfair and uncalled for. You are taking what I said way out of context. I might have made you mad due to my poor selection of wording but that is no excuse to do that.

Quote:

Just curious...why is Glenn Beck someone worth paying attention too? Glenn Beck is hit or miss just like everyone else. He has been wrong on some predictions and right on others.

Sweetleaf
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16 Aug 2011, 11:26 am

mikecartwright wrote:

Are the London Riots about Class Warfare Poor vs Rich ? As a Ex Socialist I do think economic class is an
important issue but I don't hate all Rich People I just hate Greed. In my view you are going to have Rich People in every economic system Capitalism Socialism or Communism.

London rioters: 'Showing the rich we do what we want'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14458424

Well from what I heard there was a lot of destruction to local buisnesses and it probably caused more harm to non wealthy people. So even if that is supposed to be what it was about they did not do a very good job of making that point.

Tequila
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16 Aug 2011, 12:08 pm

AceOfSpades wrote:

So much for the notion of police protection…… :roll:

Isn't he for gun rights?[/quote]

I don't want a situation where everyone can own an Uzi, but certainly I think the present situation is intolerably strict for legit folk in Great Britain and gun laws should be reformed.

LKL
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16 Aug 2011, 3:21 pm

@ Inuyasha:
Obama has arguably been better for businesses than for workers:

In any case, you simply cannot seriously make the claim that Obama 'has been bad for business.' If you look at his actions rather than his rhetoric, he has been extremely good for business.
/thread derail, please? Wasn't this about riots in London (which, IIrc, Obama does not have much of an impact on one way or another).

Kraichgauer
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16 Aug 2011, 3:30 pm

Inuyasha wrote:

techn0teen wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

Some things which come out of the White House are anti-business.

I fixed it for you. During the Bush Administration, there were many pro-business legislation passed by the House and Congress and signed by President Bush. It did not help our economy. Anti-business legislation won't help either, but it is not the main reason for our problems.

No you didn't fix it because it is a hell of a lot more than some, also your reversion to blaming Bush is really getting old. The housing bubble stemmed from the Community Reinvestment Act (specifically changes to CRA in 1995 under President Clinton), which forced banks to issue over a trillion dollars in junk loans.

Earlier this week I noted that I had changed my mind on the Community Reinvestment Act.

Contrary to my initial conclusion, the evidence is overwhelming that the CRA played a significant role in creating lax lending standards that fueled the housing bubble. Once I realized this, I had to abandon my suspicion that the anti-CRA case was a figment of the rhetoric of Republicans attempting to distract attention from their own role in the mortgage mess.

So I laid out the facts and arguments that had convinced me to switch sides in the CRA debate. It was a long series of posts that generated hundreds of responses and counter-arguments. Felix Salmon’s response is here, Barry Ritholtz’s here, Mike Rorty's here, Ryan Chitum’s here, and Matthew Wurtzel’s here. All of my posts are here. Henry Blodget's earlier post on the CRA, with which I largely agreed until recently, is here. If you carefully run through these posts and the accompanying comments, I think you'll see that every argument raised by the "Defend CRA at all costs" crowd has been refuted.

For people with less time on their hands, here's a quick guide to the main points raised by the CRA defenders and the arguments that refute them. If I’ve left out any salient points, please let me know and I’ll add them to the list.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/the-cra- ... z1V9bdtaUE

In essense, Government policies from before Bush even took office caused this mess.

techn0teen wrote:

Our problems mainly rest on poor legislation passed by both Republican and Democratic administrations of the past alongside a consumerism economy which collapsed on itself due to dangerous lending practices of credit.

There are already small riots happening in areas of extreme poverty in the United States like Chicago. People think they are isolated incidents, but I do not think they are.

Glenn Beck is nothing but a heartless little troll who sucks up to the rich man. What's his predictions? That the poor are going to lash out at the rich in some worldwide, Islamist/organized labor/communist conspiracy? Has he ever cared to think that maybe people are fed up with the sh***y way they're treated, without any grand conspiracy behind it? Has he even cared to sympathize or empathize with the underprivileged who've had enough?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

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16 Aug 2011, 7:54 pm

Tequila wrote:

AceOfSpades wrote:

So much for the notion of police protection…… :roll:

Isn't he for gun rights?

Quote:

I don't want a situation where everyone can own an Uzi, but certainly I think the present situation is intolerably strict for legit folk in Great Britain and gun laws should be reformed.

Where did this global fear of Uzi's come from?
It's a sub-machinegun, not an epidemic and not everyone wants one.

I want one, of course.

Dox47
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17 Aug 2011, 12:19 am

Raptor wrote:

Where did this global fear of Uzi's come from?
It's a sub-machinegun, not an epidemic and not everyone wants one.

I want one, of course.

I don't, the open bolt system means the thing jumps in your hand before you even get a round downrange; believe me, I know this from experience. I do like the micro version, though I'd be nearly as happy with a MAC11 for what it is.

It is funny how Uzi has become shorthand for virtually any automatic weapon regardless of class, I've seen everything from machine pistols to LMGs referred to as "Uzis". If there's any country where you can legally walk into a shop and walk out with and Uzi or any other fully automatic weapon, I'm not aware of it. Here in the states it's at least 3 months of waiting on top of a lot of paperwork and a minimum four figure investment, and that's if your state allows it and the chief law enforcement officer for your county signs off on it.

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Tequila
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17 Aug 2011, 3:12 am

Dox47 wrote:

It is funny how Uzi has become shorthand for virtually any automatic weapon regardless of class, I've seen everything from machine pistols to LMGs referred to as "Uzis". If there's any country where you can legally walk into a shop and walk out with and Uzi or any other fully automatic weapon, I'm not aware of it. Here in the states it's at least 3 months of waiting on top of a lot of paperwork and a minimum four figure investment, and that's if your state allows it and the chief law enforcement officer for your county signs off on it.

Well, OK, but you take my point, right? What I'm saying is that there's a case for many more legit folk owning guns (and allowing the personal protection excuse to apply) than that happens now.

Dox47
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17 Aug 2011, 3:18 am

Tequila wrote:

Well, OK, but you take my point, right? What I'm saying is that there's a case for many more legit folk owning guns (and allowing the personal protection excuse to apply) than that happens now.

Oh, of course, I was just commenting on the ubiquity of "Uzi" as a generic term when it's actually a specific make and model of firearm, an Israeli 9mm submachinegun to be specific. I just can't pass up an opportunity to shoot down a firearms myth, as many people seem to be confused about the availability of automatic weapons and think you can just buy one over the counter, which simply is not the case. England's laws are demented even when firearms are not involved, from what I understand they barely recognize the right to defend yourself over there.

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Tequila
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17 Aug 2011, 3:33 am

Dox47 wrote:

It's been a major worry of householders for, oh, about the last 20 years or so now that they cannot legally defend their home and property.

The firearms laws in Great Britain are mad. The firearms laws in Northern Ireland - which is what I was thinking of when relaxing them - are slightly less mad. In Northern Ireland a lot of people (ex-police, ex-Army, ex-prison service and so on) own pistols for personal protection. The 'personal' protection' excuse does not apply in Great Britain but does in Northern Ireland. In fact, pistols are essentially banned in Great Britain.

zer0netgain
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17 Aug 2011, 6:41 am

techn0teen wrote:

It is hard to think you are included in a free country when you live in overwhelming poverty that limits your goals and aspirations.

Poverty excludes people from a free society. I base this from seeing a couple family members living in poverty with no opportunity to save their money to move out of the situation. No jobs, no hope, and an anger and frustration rising because of feeling trapped.

I think I understand how people could do such things. I don't agree with it, but I can understand. It is horrible but poverty makes people go crazy.

I don't buy that.

Every person who dares call themselves "disadvantaged" has 10 times the opportunity as I currently do, but they do NOTHING to exploit it. They won't take risks. They expect everything to be handed to them. Their failure to do anything is someone else's fault even though they have done nothing to apply themselves.

Most immigrants to the USA come from poverty American's can't imagine...and they become prosperous because they take advantage of every opportunity and work their ass off for it.

CrinklyCrustacean
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17 Aug 2011, 8:29 am

Tequila wrote:

No; mostly about thugs and looters (some of whom are very middle-class, working people) deciding to tear up the town, wanting something for nothing and killing people in some instances.

Yeah, even though a few of those interviewed have taken political stances, it's just opportunists being thugs for the sake of it. If it was politically-driven, then there would probably be various groups claiming responsibility and lobbying the government, just like the IRA did when they were bombing London in the early 1990's. Gerry Adams was all over the TV, the arguments over a ceasefire raged on, and it got to the point where, even though I was knee-high to a grasshopper, I could correctly assume that any bombing was due to the IRA. It was so pointless and predictable.

LKL
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17 Aug 2011, 3:08 pm

A lack of centralized organization does not preclude individual political motivations. There was almost certainly a lot of mob psychology going on too, though.

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