Obama decides to grant blanket amnesty
22 Aug 2011, 8:18 pm
Orwell wrote:
cw10 wrote:
Obama is the "educated classes". He's doing great don't you think?
Better than Bush, at least.
From what I've read the war is worse under Obama than it was under Bush.
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MarketAndChurch
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22 Aug 2011, 8:25 pm
John_Browning wrote:
MarketAndChurch wrote:
the dream act and amnesty would be good for America as most of them are already pretty American in most aspects except for their citizenship status, the same with closing the border off with snipers and special ops until we can afford a puppet government in Mexico to fix their s***, then we can add them to the US (Along with Canada to form the United States of North America (USNA)) keep our constitution and DC as our capital.
Mexico is a poison pill to our society. We'd do best to quarantine it.
but look at all that real estate... all that oil... all that manufacturing capability... large carriers from China and Japan would no longer need to go around the panama canal to the ports in the south when they could either just go through mexico or dock at one of the new ports we construct there.
it would blend our cultures much better, and move mexico a little closer towards capitalism and away from socialism, and provide millions upon millions of mexicans a pathway out of poverty while increasing America's religiosity and reintroduce us to familism.
Even if we don't merge the two countries, we should at least build a tall fence and invest tens of billions of dollars to guarding it, and at the same time demand they change their socialist ways or else we will begin massive deportations on mass, I mean these people are poor, you think they'd adopt the ways of the richer country they leave their own country for.
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John_Browning
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22 Aug 2011, 9:14 pm
MarketAndChurch wrote:
John_Browning wrote:
MarketAndChurch wrote:
the dream act and amnesty would be good for America as most of them are already pretty American in most aspects except for their citizenship status, the same with closing the border off with snipers and special ops until we can afford a puppet government in Mexico to fix their s***, then we can add them to the US (Along with Canada to form the United States of North America (USNA)) keep our constitution and DC as our capital.
Mexico is a poison pill to our society. We'd do best to quarantine it.
but look at all that real estate... all that oil... all that manufacturing capability... large carriers from China and Japan would no longer need to go around the panama canal to the ports in the south when they could either just go through mexico or dock at one of the new ports we construct there.
it would blend our cultures much better, and move mexico a little closer towards capitalism and away from socialism, and provide millions upon millions of mexicans a pathway out of poverty while increasing America's religiosity and reintroduce us to familism.
Even if we don't merge the two countries, we should at least build a tall fence and invest tens of billions of dollars to guarding it, and at the same time demand they change their socialist ways or else we will begin massive deportations on mass, I mean these people are poor, you think they'd adopt the ways of the richer country they leave their own country for.
Mexico has tons of natural resources. However, their society is so screwed up that the only way to make that piece of real estate a functional part of America would be to get rid of all the Mexicans there. That's why I prefer to kick them out of the US, build a wall, and put a garrison along it. It's looking more and more like we are going to need some sort of military intervention there someday so it's best not to increase economic cooperation with them until that is all done with and we've re-established a functional government there again.
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22 Aug 2011, 10:14 pm
John_Browning wrote:
Mexico has tons of natural resources. However, their society is so screwed up that the only way to make that piece of real estate a functional part of America would be to get rid of all the Mexicans there. That's why I prefer to kick them out of the US, build a wall, and put a garrison along it. It's looking more and more like we are going to need some sort of military intervention there someday so it's best not to increase economic cooperation with them until that is all done with and we've re-established a functional government there again.
Your entire story is overly pessimistic. Mexico is legitimately a developing nation, not a stagnant economy and not a society without any potential for improvement. Many of the problems are shared with other developing nations, and thus likely will decrease as the nation gets more developed.
22 Aug 2011, 10:30 pm
number5 wrote:
Orwell wrote:
blunnet wrote:
I mean, are there alternative systems that support freedom, human rights, social justice, reform and all that, that we can get from history, as that is what we get under democratic governments in the 20th century?
Enlightened despotism. Or some form of technocratic republic, eg one where involvement in civil government is restricted to the educated classes.
I used to think this was a bad idea. Now, I think you may be on to something. We've dumbed it down substantially. Every idiot with a twitter account is an 'expert' on something, and the real experts are dismissed as elitists. I don't go visit a high school dropout when I'm sick. By the same logic, I'd prefer not to leave the fate of our country to people who can't distinguish a government benefit from a paycheck. Perhaps you are wise beyond your years.
I fail to see how someone is an expert when they tamper with the recorded data just to get the results they want. I was taught that something of that nature was academic dishonesty.
22 Aug 2011, 11:07 pm
Inuyasha wrote:
number5 wrote:
Orwell wrote:
blunnet wrote:
I mean, are there alternative systems that support freedom, human rights, social justice, reform and all that, that we can get from history, as that is what we get under democratic governments in the 20th century?
Enlightened despotism. Or some form of technocratic republic, eg one where involvement in civil government is restricted to the educated classes.
I used to think this was a bad idea. Now, I think you may be on to something. We've dumbed it down substantially. Every idiot with a twitter account is an 'expert' on something, and the real experts are dismissed as elitists. I don't go visit a high school dropout when I'm sick. By the same logic, I'd prefer not to leave the fate of our country to people who can't distinguish a government benefit from a paycheck. Perhaps you are wise beyond your years.
I fail to see how someone is an expert when they tamper with the recorded data just to get the results they want. I was taught that something of that nature was academic dishonesty.
I fail to see how your comment has any relationship to anything whatsoever that was said in the post you quoted.
22 Aug 2011, 11:08 pm
Awesomelyglorious wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
number5 wrote:
Orwell wrote:
blunnet wrote:
I mean, are there alternative systems that support freedom, human rights, social justice, reform and all that, that we can get from history, as that is what we get under democratic governments in the 20th century?
Enlightened despotism. Or some form of technocratic republic, eg one where involvement in civil government is restricted to the educated classes.
I used to think this was a bad idea. Now, I think you may be on to something. We've dumbed it down substantially. Every idiot with a twitter account is an 'expert' on something, and the real experts are dismissed as elitists. I don't go visit a high school dropout when I'm sick. By the same logic, I'd prefer not to leave the fate of our country to people who can't distinguish a government benefit from a paycheck. Perhaps you are wise beyond your years.
I fail to see how someone is an expert when they tamper with the recorded data just to get the results they want. I was taught that something of that nature was academic dishonesty.
I fail to see how your comment has any relationship to anything whatsoever that was said in the post you quoted.
I noticed that too be did not want to engage the stupid.
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We must not buy their fruits:
Who knows upon what soil they fed
Their hungry thirsty roots??
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22 Aug 2011, 11:31 pm
Awesomelyglorious wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
number5 wrote:
Orwell wrote:
blunnet wrote:
I mean, are there alternative systems that support freedom, human rights, social justice, reform and all that, that we can get from history, as that is what we get under democratic governments in the 20th century?
Enlightened despotism. Or some form of technocratic republic, eg one where involvement in civil government is restricted to the educated classes.
I used to think this was a bad idea. Now, I think you may be on to something. We've dumbed it down substantially. Every idiot with a twitter account is an 'expert' on something, and the real experts are dismissed as elitists. I don't go visit a high school dropout when I'm sick. By the same logic, I'd prefer not to leave the fate of our country to people who can't distinguish a government benefit from a paycheck. Perhaps you are wise beyond your years.
I fail to see how someone is an expert when they tamper with the recorded data just to get the results they want. I was taught that something of that nature was academic dishonesty.
I fail to see how your comment has any relationship to anything whatsoever that was said in the post you quoted.
I bolded the part to show you how it is relevent, when you have "real experts" doctoring their data to make their position seem valid, why should I believe those "experts."
JakobVirgil wrote:
I noticed that too be did not want to engage the stupid.
If your ego got any bigger your head would explode. On some things you may be a smart individual, in others quite frankly are not.
Case in point, is a reply in which you bashed me instead of reading what I was quoting carefully, it doesn't take a freakin Einstein to figure out how what I said was relevent. Fact of the matter is you just replied that way because of your arrogant belief that I am somehow inferior to you, so you didn't stop and actually look at what I quoted.
22 Aug 2011, 11:35 pm
DarthMetaKnight wrote:
Orwell wrote:
cw10 wrote:
Obama is the "educated classes". He's doing great don't you think?
Better than Bush, at least.
From what I've read the war is worse under Obama than it was under Bush.
Which war? It's true that Afghanistan is going badly for us right now, but we're starting to get a handle on it. Iraq has been (relatively) quiet for several years now.
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22 Aug 2011, 11:37 pm
See what I mean there is no meaningful engagement.
Just some stupidly held beliefs and assumptions.
Not worth the time.
If I want to argue with "conservatives" I prefer to do so with one
that is honest and knows what he is talking about.
_________________
?We must not look at goblin men,
We must not buy their fruits:
Who knows upon what soil they fed
Their hungry thirsty roots??
http://jakobvirgil.blogspot.com/
22 Aug 2011, 11:47 pm
Orwell wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
If I want to argue with "conservatives" I prefer to do so with one
that is honest and knows what he is talking about.
that is honest and knows what he is talking about.
Good luck finding one. You may need to enlist Diogenes' help.
Intellectual honesty and broad knowledge tend to disqualify one from being a "true believer" in any camp.
be it Objectivist or Marxist. Reality always confounds the panaceas.
It usually makes one a liberal is the truest and oldest sense.
a person who is generous.
_________________
?We must not look at goblin men,
We must not buy their fruits:
Who knows upon what soil they fed
Their hungry thirsty roots??
http://jakobvirgil.blogspot.com/
23 Aug 2011, 2:34 am
JakobVirgil wrote:
Orwell wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
If I want to argue with "conservatives" I prefer to do so with one
that is honest and knows what he is talking about.
that is honest and knows what he is talking about.
Good luck finding one. You may need to enlist Diogenes' help.
Intellectual honesty and broad knowledge tend to disqualify one from being a "true believer" in any camp.
be it Objectivist or Marxist. Reality always confounds the panaceas.
It usually makes one a liberal is the truest and oldest sense.
a person who is generous.
You can argue all you want as the country burns. But take note, your house is still on fire.
23 Aug 2011, 7:24 am
cw10 wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
Orwell wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
If I want to argue with "conservatives" I prefer to do so with one
that is honest and knows what he is talking about.
that is honest and knows what he is talking about.
Good luck finding one. You may need to enlist Diogenes' help.
Intellectual honesty and broad knowledge tend to disqualify one from being a "true believer" in any camp.
be it Objectivist or Marxist. Reality always confounds the panaceas.
It usually makes one a liberal is the truest and oldest sense.
a person who is generous.
You can argue all you want as the country burns. But take note, your house is still on fire.
that is not the statement of a conservative but an alarmist, and it has more in common with fascism than a defense
of the american way. Also it in no way engages what I said.
So new Guy thanks for reinforcing my belief that young conservatives are spineless disingenuous old women
who use emotional appeals instead of logical ones.
_________________
?We must not look at goblin men,
We must not buy their fruits:
Who knows upon what soil they fed
Their hungry thirsty roots??
http://jakobvirgil.blogspot.com/
23 Aug 2011, 11:33 am
It seems to me that this thread is long on idealism and short on the practicalities of actually administering a government.
As you should all be only too aware, there are limited resources with which government can undertake interdiction and refoulement. It is far better, I suggest, for government to acknowledge that there are limited resources, and focus those resources on priorities.
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