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The_Face_of_Boo
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24 Aug 2011, 5:12 pm

Tequila wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Your views are too one-sided in that matter.


From what I can tell, the Israelis can be pretty brutal and nasty at times, you'll get no argument from me on that. However, we either look to a democratic, stable, Westernised system of government or we look to Islamist, Jew-hating savages.


I've read many posts of yours and I am starting to decrypt your logic on that matter .

To you

Israeli = civilized Middle-eastern.

Non-Israeli Middle-eastern = savage Middle-eastern.

Fine, that's your opinion.

But the savages' view on most of the Israelis will remain the same, whether peace happened or not = Non-Middle eastern Polish/Russian/European/foreigner invaders.


and Turkey's current rulers are closer to Islamists and they're doing a pretty good job regarding democracy and stability.



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24 Aug 2011, 5:26 pm

Tequila wrote:
From what I can tell, the Israelis can be pretty brutal and nasty at times, you'll get no argument from me on that. However, we either look to a democratic, stable, Westernised system of government or we look to Islamist, Jew-hating savages.

I think that what the Palestinians are doing is what humans naturally do when their land has been taken away. When I hear about what Palestinians are doing I am reminded of the things that Native Americans once did to European settlers that made the settlers call them "savages". That's what happens when you take someone's land away.

Also, I don't think anti-Zionist Palestinian behavior is motivated by Islamism.


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The_Face_of_Boo
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25 Aug 2011, 7:17 am

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
Tequila wrote:
From what I can tell, the Israelis can be pretty brutal and nasty at times, you'll get no argument from me on that. However, we either look to a democratic, stable, Westernised system of government or we look to Islamist, Jew-hating savages.

I think that what the Palestinians are doing is what humans naturally do when their land has been taken away. When I hear about what Palestinians are doing I am reminded of the things that Native Americans once did to European settlers that made the settlers call them "savages". That's what happens when you take someone's land away.

Also, I don't think anti-Zionist Palestinian behavior is motivated by Islamism.


Pretty close, however Middle East's savages won't give up like America's savages.



Inuyasha
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27 Aug 2011, 1:02 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Tequila wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Your views are too one-sided in that matter.


From what I can tell, the Israelis can be pretty brutal and nasty at times, you'll get no argument from me on that. However, we either look to a democratic, stable, Westernised system of government or we look to Islamist, Jew-hating savages.


I've read many posts of yours and I am starting to decrypt your logic on that matter .

To you

Israeli = civilized Middle-eastern.

Non-Israeli Middle-eastern = savage Middle-eastern.

Fine, that's your opinion.

But the savages' view on most of the Israelis will remain the same, whether peace happened or not = Non-Middle eastern Polish/Russian/European/foreigner invaders.


and Turkey's current rulers are closer to Islamists and they're doing a pretty good job regarding democracy and stability.


Israelis do not use children as explosive devices.



ruveyn
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27 Aug 2011, 4:29 am

Inuyasha wrote:

Israelis do not use children as explosive devices.


True. But in a down and dirty fire fight they are more likely to use other people's children as explosive devices, or at least blow them up. That is the nature of war, particularly close quarter urban war.

ruveyn



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27 Aug 2011, 7:09 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
DarthMetaKnight wrote:
Tequila wrote:
From what I can tell, the Israelis can be pretty brutal and nasty at times, you'll get no argument from me on that. However, we either look to a democratic, stable, Westernised system of government or we look to Islamist, Jew-hating savages.

I think that what the Palestinians are doing is what humans naturally do when their land has been taken away. When I hear about what Palestinians are doing I am reminded of the things that Native Americans once did to European settlers that made the settlers call them "savages". That's what happens when you take someone's land away.

Also, I don't think anti-Zionist Palestinian behavior is motivated by Islamism.


Pretty close, however Middle East's savages won't give up like America's savages.


I think the Ashkenazim should embrace the Levantine ape the customs of the Mizrahim.
If they really are from there act like it leave Germany in Germany.
there was a trend in this direction it produced a lot of hummus eating and a resurrection of Hebrew.
But I think Israel should embrace pan-arabism with themselves defined as Arabs.
or at least acknowledge that there is a leventine culture (a mix of Jews Muslims christians and Druze)
and that they should strive to be part of it.


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pandabear
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27 Aug 2011, 8:43 am

They will eventually. Like Jews in America.



ruveyn
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27 Aug 2011, 8:55 am

pandabear wrote:
They will eventually. Like Jews in America.


Yodah says: Hold not your breath, else blue turn you will.

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pandabear
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27 Aug 2011, 9:07 am

Another couple of hundred years, after the Jews are outnumbered. Some future generation of Israelis will be like the hippies of our 1960s, and have big love-ins with their Moslem and Christian neighbors.



Tequila
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27 Aug 2011, 3:19 pm

pandabear wrote:
Another couple of hundred years, after the Jews are outnumbered. Some future generation of Israelis will be like the hippies of our 1960s, and have big love-ins with their Moslem and Christian neighbors.


With all the counter-revolutionaries and inter-factional strife that that will entail.



codarac
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29 Aug 2011, 4:17 pm

ruveyn wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
The fact that there are any Palestinians alive is proof that Israel has no plan or policy for "ethnic cleansing" (aka genocide) whatsoever.

ruveyn


They are just uncertain that they could get away with it.


Jews are plagued with a sense of shame and a guilty conscience. It will be the death of them.

ruveyn


It seems to me this is pretty much the opposite of the truth, and I trust I am allowed to make a general observation of my own here.
The majority of jews, as far as I have observed, are "plagued with a sense" of the "anti-semitism" (i.e., guilt) of the rest of the world, and rarely consider that what they call "anti-semitism" could have anything to do with jewish anti-Gentilism.



Inuyasha
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31 Aug 2011, 11:38 am

codarac wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
The fact that there are any Palestinians alive is proof that Israel has no plan or policy for "ethnic cleansing" (aka genocide) whatsoever.

ruveyn


They are just uncertain that they could get away with it.


Jews are plagued with a sense of shame and a guilty conscience. It will be the death of them.

ruveyn


It seems to me this is pretty much the opposite of the truth, and I trust I am allowed to make a general observation of my own here.
The majority of jews, as far as I have observed, are "plagued with a sense" of the "anti-semitism" (i.e., guilt) of the rest of the world, and rarely consider that what they call "anti-semitism" could have anything to do with jewish anti-Gentilism.


Have you had a look at Europe lately, cause anti-Semitism is on the rise in Europe. Stop trying to say it's all the Jews' fault, they aren't the ones out their calling for the deaths of "infidels."



Shantih
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02 Sep 2011, 7:00 am

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Civilians made the parts for Japanese airplanes.

Once again, they had no choice in this matter - it was either find work, or die.

Quote:
it was necessary to burn the Japanese towns and villages to the ground, which we did.

Why was it necessary? To prove your intellectual and spiritual superiority?

There was absolutely no need for either of the two attacks on Nagasaki and Hiroshima - Japan was obviously going to surrender in a few weeks or months regardless of any incoming attacks, and America knew it.

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Yes it does, since that is part of the definition of genocide.

I've already shown, earlier in this thread, that there are numerous definitions of the word genocide.

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If the Israelis were going to do it, they already would have. The Israelis have enough nukes to lay Gaza and the West Bank waste.

The Israelis are a little smarter than that - they know that ostentatiously wiping out the Palestinian people in one go would cause the world to turn entirely against them - so their tactic is to simply make sure the Palestinians never get any real political power and that the Israelis' crimes against the Palestinian people never get any significant coverage in the western media.

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Israel was able to defeat the armies, navies, and air forces of several nations at once and thereby won an entire war in less than a week.


America won the war for them - Israel doesn't fight its own wars.

It wasn't a communal Jewish effort, but a bloody American military campaign that established the state of Israel.

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If Israel really wanted to eliminate their troublesome neighbors, they could probably do it within a single day.


They could, but wouldn't - the Israelis are intelligent enough to realise that the eradication of several million members of an ethnic group would obviously cause a paradigm shift in the way westerners view their criminal country.

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Given that they constantly receive flak from almost every news outlet regardless of what is actually done,

Do you honestly believe that the western media is against Israel? No, you don't, you're trolling, you must be.

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Exactly, I don't understand how some Americans find the nuclear bombing of two cities of CIVILIANS as a retaliation of MILITARY losses they had at Pearl Harbour. Even the numbers of causalities are incomparable.

No wonder those same people are the same group who support Israel, they're both morally disgusting.


It's not exactly their fault - when they get the same thing parroted to them all throughout their life, it's difficult to see, or to believe anything otherwise.

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Have any idea how many civilians died in conventional warfare due to incendiary weapons? If it weren't for the use of the nuclear weapons, as a demonstration of how quickly Japan's Imperial Sun King could be turned to embers everyone in Japan would probably had died before the war was over. As it is, two towns were destroyed instead. It's still sucks, but it could have been a lot worse.


Japan would have surrendered in a few weeks/months, without a doubt. I don't mean to be nasty, but surely anybody of average intelligence can see this.



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02 Sep 2011, 11:48 am

Shantih wrote:
Quote:
Civilians made the parts for Japanese airplanes.

Once again, they had no choice in this matter - it was either find work, or die.

[quote]

A factory worker who makes weapons for the enemy is as much an instrument of war as a cannon, a plane, a rocket, a bomb etc. whether or not the labor was willing. In war it is legitimate to destroy instruments of war in use by the enemy, hence killing war workers is totally kosher.

War is a nasty unpleasant business. If the leaders of our enemies would learn that they would not start wars against our interests and we would not have to kill anyone.

ruveyn



Shantih
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02 Sep 2011, 12:23 pm

ruveyn wrote:
A factory worker who makes weapons for the enemy is as much an instrument of war as a cannon, a plane, a rocket, a bomb etc. whether or not the labor was willing. In war it is legitimate to destroy instruments of war in use by the enemy, hence killing war workers is totally kosher.

War is a nasty unpleasant business. If the leaders of our enemies would learn that they would not start wars against our interests and we would not have to kill anyone.

ruveyn


The Laws of Aerial Warfare circa. 1923 clearly stipulate the following:

Quote:
(3) The bombardment of cities, towns, villages, dwellings or buildings not in the immediate neighborhood of the operations of land forces is prohibited. In cases where the objectives specified in paragraph 2 are so situated, that they cannot be bombarded without the indiscriminate bombardment of the civilian population, the aircraft must abstain from bombardment.


You violated international law, it's as simple as that. And not only that, but you also did it while being absolutely knowing of the fact that Japan was OBVIOUSLY going to surrender in a short period of time. Why?

You might think you're being patriotic and American by defending the undeniable and attrocious war crimes your nation has committed, but you're really not, you're just being disrespectful and mean.



ruveyn
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02 Sep 2011, 12:28 pm

Shantih wrote:

You violated international law, it's as simple as that. And not only that, but you also did it while being absolutely knowing of the fact that Japan was OBVIOUSLY going to surrender in a short period of time. Why?

You might think you're being patriotic and American by defending the undeniable and attrocious war crimes your nation has committed, but you're really not, you're just being disrespectful and mean.


Screw international "law". In a war for survival the only law is to not lose. By the way, the U.S. was NOT a signatory to the Geneva convention during WW2. The government chose to observe it when feasible. Harry Truman authorized the use of poison gas against Japan, but the success of the nuclear attacks made that unnecessary.

We should not go to war unless we are determined to win and to win we should use whatever means are necessary to the end. The last one standing is the Winner.

ruveyn