The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine

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Nuclear weapons only buys Israel time. Iran simply does not have the infrastructure yet to wage a nuclear war against Israel and of course cannot defeat Israel using conventional forces.

This is why Israelis that oppose the two state solution are Naive the longer we wait the better the position of the Palestinians.
No matter how many buildings are bulldozed and settlements are built. (these tactics weaken international support)
If they wait too long the will be a one state solution a democracy with a Muslim majority.
But maybe that would be best for everyone.

I want to visit Israel at some point in my life. If there was any, and I mean any, country I would ever want to visit in that part of the world, it would be Israel. Mainly because Israel is the West in the Middle East. If Israel falls, bye bye Kansas.

Exactly, that's why it shouldn't be there in the first place.


Ok, just for the sake of debate, let's suppose that the bible is really the God's word and an accurate historical reference.


The Zionist Jews claim that they have the moral right and legitimacy of restoring the land by any means necessary, because, according to the bible, they are the 'descendants' of the land's owners around 2500 years ago.

But the Bible also says that the first Hebrews invaded the lands of Canaan, doesn't that also give the 'descendants' of the Canaanites the legitimacy of kicking out the descendants of their invaders?

Well, then by that logic, what business do the Hashemites have there? The Palestinians already have a homeland, it's called Jordan.

The reality is that none of these arguments have any merit. The real circumstances on the ground are what needs to inform the discussion.

No solution that erases the State of Israel from the map, or that fails to create a Palestinian state on the map has any hope of success.

The end state will not be a democracy. It will be a corrupt thugocracy. That is the best the Palestinians are capable of.

ruveyn

QFT

Israel is there because Europeans were so ashamed of what they had allowed to happen (i.e. the holocaust) that they essentially wanted to get the surviving Jewish People out of Europe. Then there were those that attacked Jewish People whom were trying to get their homes back. Basically, whenever they saw a Jewish person whom had a number tatooed on their arm the Europeans probably felt a sickening guilt.

The Jewish Survivors of the Holocaust for a large part, wanted out of Europe and their own homeland back, they didn't trust their former neighbors (and for good reason).

As for Muslims whom stayed within Israel when it became a country, they are actually full Israeli Citizens.

Also as for the claims that the Jewish people are trying to commit genocide, if they are, it is the most incompetitent campaign to wipe out an ethnic group that has been seen in World History. Considering the fact the Israeli military is one of the most well trained in the World and their Air Force could probably mop the floor with the US Air Force (Israeli pilots are considered the best in the world), I don't see how anyone can honestly claim Israelis are out to wipe out the Palestinians.

Quoted for total Bullcrap and falsification.

There's no study that shows that Palestinians were Hashemites.


We can also say that Norwegians are Swedes.

So, first they are Jordanians, and then you say they are Syrians, then they are of many different nationalities? What's next? I think I smell a load of bovine manure.

Israelis claim that Palestinians do not exist for the same reason that Chinese claim that Tibetans do not exist; that lie makes it much easier to justify what they are doing.

The oldest common origin of Palestinians, Lebanese and Syrians are the Canaanites. Those people today are called "Arabs" because of their current language .

The word "Arab" is a very term vague, it can refer to: The Arab race (The Gulf's Arabs) and the "Arabphones" (Non-Arab people who were culturally and linguistically conquered by Arabs.)
We even have a local term to refer to the 'real Arabs'.

Palestinians are of the Arabphone people, they weren't originally Arabs.

Jordanians are a totally different case (except the Palestinians who reside in Jordan due to the exodus), they were descended from Hashemites and Nabataeans, and other Ancient Arab tribes.

Palestinians are not Jordanians. It is ridiculous and ignorant to assume otherwise.

Mexicans speak Spanish, but most of them aren't Spaniards.

Okay, so Jews have a right to exist. I agree. I also agree with you that ones' own country, established just for them, is necessary to secure their right to exist.

Now let me ask you the following:

Do white gentiles have a right to exist?

Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on 24 Aug 2011, 9:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

So the Palestinians have to pay the price of the Europeans' shame? A small portion of the defeated Germany could have been the solution.

Long before the Holocaust there was a movement by the Zionists to go back to the ancient homeland of the Jews (which was taken by force from the Cana'anites and other tribes in the area) If the Zionists really wanted to go back to square zero they should have tried to establish a state around Ur Casdim (Ur of the Chaldees) which is located in what is now Kuwait where Abraham came from.

Jerusalem is originally a Jebusite village on high ground. Later built up by Solomon as a walled city .

The entire business is bullsh*t.

ruveyn

What's the point of all the foregoing fatuousness?



The question is puerile. All people have a right to exist.

But at least we have you acknowledging the need for the State of Israel to exist.

So drop all the "ethnic cleansing" agitprop and come back to the table with those of us who are willing to talk sensibly about how to create capacity within the Palestinian people to maintain a stable government, and put the territory in their hands. How do they rid themselves of Iran and Hamas? How can they enjoy the benefits from the economic development that they have managed to create in the West Bank? How do we get another Parliamentary democracy created in the Middle East?

The truth is that Fatah is so very nearly there. The Palestinian Authority outranks all of it's Arab neighbours (with the possible exception of Lebanon) on The Economists Freedom Index. While it is still a "hybrid regime," it would not take too much to bring it up into the ranks of "flawed democracies" with Israel (and Italy and France, for that matter).

Inflammatory language will not help the Palestinian people--all it will do is stiffen the resolve of Israel and her supporters. But an engagement of responsible diplomacy, from a government that can commit on behalf of its people can make all the difference in the world.

I was referring to the second part of his post. I think that was the main point that visagrunt was making? The comment about Jordan was a throwaway thing. It probably didn't seem that way to you and I can see why you're offended, but I think it was meant that way.

I'm totally ignorant about the ethnic origins of Palestinians. I guess I should have cut the first part of his post out, instead of quoting it's entirety. I agreed wtih visagrunt's point that we need to focus on the reality as it exists rather than using ancient tribal loyalties as an argument. We can neither remove Israel nor can we deny the rights of Palestinians.

When they stop bombing Israel they might get my sympathy, for what it's worth. Until then I'll consider them similar to other nasties that inhabit this world.

Your views are too one-sided in that matter.

From what I can tell, the Israelis can be pretty brutal and nasty at times, you'll get no argument from me on that. However, we either look to a democratic, stable, Westernised system of government or we look to Islamist, Jew-hating savages.