TOM differences between aspergers, ADHD and giftedness?

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Mdyar
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28 Aug 2011, 5:27 pm

Verdandi wrote:
One of the foremost experts on ADHD says that the name is a terrible name and should probably be changed - but that such a name change is unlikely to go happen. He says it would be like calling autism "hand flapping disorder."


It should be "Executive Dysfunction Disorder." "Attention Defecit" is merely a superficial understanding of what is happening and it minimizes the severity of this condition. I suppose saying I have "Executive Function Disorder is more confusing, as someone would equate that with the "Presidential thingy." :lol: :P

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I don't know that ADHD presents a direct social impairment. My understanding is that it doesn't, although the tendency toward distraction makes it easy to miss things.


It doesn't. As the chemistry avatar miss' points out, it stems from an inability to apply it, an inability to receive it *accurately.*

It, (the knowledge) can't be reliably applied.



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28 Aug 2011, 5:33 pm

Mdyar wrote:
It should be "Executive Dysfunction Disorder." "Attention Defecit" is merely a superficial understanding of what is happening and it minimizes the severity of this condition. I suppose saying I have "Executive Function Disorder is more confusing, as someone would equate that with the "Presidential thingy." :lol: :P


That's one label. I know he suggested multiple different names in one of his talks (intention deficit disorder, motivation deficit disorder, etc). But yeah, EFD would be much more accurate.

(He = Russell Barkley)

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It doesn't. As the chemistry avatar miss' points out, it stems from an inability to apply it, an inability to receive it *accurately.*

It, (the knowledge) can't be reliably applied.


Yeah, Barkley makes the point that people with ADHD know just about the same amount of information as anyone else in similar circumstances - it's not that they don't know what to do, it's that they are unable to do what they know.



wavefreak58
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28 Aug 2011, 8:56 pm

Mdyar wrote:
How about you WaveFreak, do you experience better "functioning" with say. better sleep, less stress, or some unknown variables at play-- but it seems like "it is better?" Mine fluctuate between rock bottom and "good."


While I definitely vary, I've never been able to figure out any type of pattern to executive functioning issues. I REALLY wish I could. When I am really making progress on a project or something I'm not self aware enough to think about what keeps me focused.


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swbluto
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28 Aug 2011, 10:24 pm

wavefreak58 wrote:
Mdyar wrote:
How about you WaveFreak, do you experience better "functioning" with say. better sleep, less stress, or some unknown variables at play-- but it seems like "it is better?" Mine fluctuate between rock bottom and "good."


While I definitely vary, I've never been able to figure out any type of pattern to executive functioning issues. I REALLY wish I could. When I am really making progress on a project or something I'm not self aware enough to think about what keeps me focused.


Another member long ago in another thread I created said that he was better able to remember what people said when he had sufficiently long, good quality sleep. I also noticed I had a problem remembering what other people said at times (in "short term memory" or "working memory" or whatever.), so I created the thread based on that issue. Funny that my psych suggested I have adhd and this issue is being discussed in this thread, lol. If I didn't know any better...



Mdyar
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29 Aug 2011, 8:23 am

There was thread on Giftedness and having ADHD posted on the "Cerebrals" board, a board with IQ's near the 99.9 %.

It was a poll type thread querying how this affects that (users there with ADHD), and does this condition have any unique potentiations with giftedness.

You hear of the more common "twice giftedness" with Aspergers, and of course the plain Jane "giftedness."

- I think I'm atypical in the long term memory sense, as this condition seems to have shortages throughout most memory.
- I can read well.
- I can remember/recall well.
- I'm detail oriented.

Generally (and as wavefreak mentioned ), there is a neurological difference in "gifted ones."

Their difference is ToM and communication. They see the function behind the form, thus they see more details.

They are isolated and they know it.



kt24
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29 Aug 2011, 8:53 am

Tuttle wrote:
Giftedness can be described to have some ToM issues because of not understanding why others don't understand what they understand. However this is very specific and not an overall social difficulty.


btbnnyr wrote:
Someone who is less severely affected by ASD but less severely affected by giftedness may appear more socially dysfunctional than someone who is more severely affected by ASD and more severely affected by giftedness.


This is completely true, and incredibly frustrating for the people who are actually more severely affected.


Add to this being female and there's no wonder there are a lot of female gifted aspies who are undiagnosed.


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kt24
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29 Aug 2011, 9:02 am

Mdyar wrote:
There was thread on Giftedness and having ADHD posted on the "Cerebrals" board, a board with IQ's near the 99.9 %.

It was a poll type thread querying how this affects that (users there with ADHD), and does this condition have any unique potentiations with giftedness.

You hear of the more common "twice giftedness" with Aspergers, and of course the plain Jane "giftedness."

- I think I'm atypical in the long term memory sense, as this condition seems to have shortages throughout most memory.
- I can read well.
- I can remember/recall well.
- I'm detail oriented.

Generally (and as wavefreak mentioned ), there is a neurological difference in "gifted ones."

Their difference is ToM and communication. They see the function behind the form, thus they see more details.

They are isolated and they know it.


An interesting point on giftedness but in NTs- as a teacher I meet a few of these, and it's fascinating to me how similar they are in many ways to people with mild AS- one girl got so upset about playing a game she went and hid in a corner and told me it was because she was fed up of always winning, she had few friends except a very intelligent girl (though not gifted), had a very short attention span but incredible memory, and was able to calculate any maths question in her head. She's better by far at reading than anyone else, pays attention to details and yet she can't do sports well as she's so uncoordinated. If you didn't know, you would swear she was affected by AS in some way- but she's not.
So giftedness itself can present some of the symptoms of autism too.

TO go back to the debate about ToM, however, she's definitely an NT as she can see what other people are thinking and put herself in their position- she could even say what I was thinking when I didn't know myself!

The ADHD boy I taught (only one, so not generalising) had developed ToM- he knew what he was doing, the effects on other people, and how they felt about things, he just lacked the self-control to be able to adapt his behaviour, so it appeared he had no idea about ToM.


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Mdyar
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29 Aug 2011, 10:05 am

kt24 wrote:
Mdyar wrote:
There was thread on Giftedness and having ADHD posted on the "Cerebrals" board, a board with IQ's near the 99.9 %.

It was a poll type thread querying how this affects that (users there with ADHD), and does this condition have any unique potentiations with giftedness.

You hear of the more common "twice giftedness" with Aspergers, and of course the plain Jane "giftedness."

- I think I'm atypical in the long term memory sense, as this condition seems to have shortages throughout most memory.
- I can read well.
- I can remember/recall well.
- I'm detail oriented.

Generally (and as wavefreak mentioned ), there is a neurological difference in "gifted ones."

Their difference is ToM and communication. They see the function behind the form, thus they see more details.

They are isolated and they know it.


An interesting point on giftedness but in NTs- as a teacher I meet a few of these, and it's fascinating to me how similar they are in many ways to people with mild AS- one girl got so upset about playing a game she went and hid in a corner and told me it was because she was fed up of always winning, she had few friends except a very intelligent girl (though not gifted), had a very short attention span but incredible memory, and was able to calculate any maths question in her head. She's better by far at reading than anyone else, pays attention to details and yet she can't do sports well as she's so uncoordinated. If you didn't know, you would swear she was affected by AS in some way- but she's not.
So giftedness itself can present some of the symptoms of autism too.

TO go back to the debate about ToM, however, she's definitely an NT as she can see what other people are thinking and put herself in their position- she could even say what I was thinking when I didn't know myself!

The ADHD boy I taught (only one, so not generalising) had developed ToM- he knew what he was doing, the effects on other people, and how they felt about things, he just lacked the self-control to be able to adapt his behaviour, so it appeared he had no idea about ToM.



Quote:
TO go back to the debate about ToM, however, she's definitely an NT as she can see what other people are thinking and put herself in their position- she could even say what I was thinking when I didn't know myself!
:lol:

'I'm laughing because I did this to my 5th grade teacher - she said: " you think you know everything!" :lol: It was a scold -- I could see her thoughts coming. :lol:

She overall had a fondness for me; she commented on my report card that I was a "great thinker, I had potential." Also I impressed her with my science fair winning of 2nd place, in grade 4 - only "2nd" because -" they only give 1st place to 5th graders."

She was 70 at the time, and with a PhD, she was Doctor W. I'm guessing she was retired and just couldn't give up working/ teaching, thus teaching us 4th and 5th graders. Great person. We had her over for dinner once.



Maje
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29 Aug 2011, 10:40 am

Mdyar wrote:
TO go back to the debate about ToM, however, she's definitely an NT as she can see what other people are thinking and put herself in their position- she could even say what I was thinking when I didn't know myself!


If this is true Im definitely an NT.



Mdyar
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29 Aug 2011, 11:44 am

Maje wrote:
Mdyar wrote:
TO go back to the debate about ToM, however, she's definitely an NT as she can see what other people are thinking and put herself in their position- she could even say what I was thinking when I didn't know myself!


If this is true Im definitely an NT.


Uh, for clarity that is a kt24 qoute.



Maje
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29 Aug 2011, 11:59 am

Mdyar wrote:
Maje wrote:
Mdyar wrote:
TO go back to the debate about ToM, however, she's definitely an NT as she can see what other people are thinking and put herself in their position- she could even say what I was thinking when I didn't know myself!


If this is true Im definitely an NT.


Uh, for clarity that is a kt24 qoute.


Obs, excuse moi :oops: