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2ukenkerl
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03 Sep 2007, 10:14 am

kreb1958 wrote:
We should remember 9/11 quietly and with dignity, and it would be a cross party political affair. Republicans, Democrats, Christians, Muslims, should be able to remember this act of terrorism with dignity, without digressing into the War with Afghanistan etc.

I was appalled when I heard of the news at the time, but as a pacifist totally disagreed with Bush's USA response by invading Afghanistan, in the spurious belief that Osama Bin Laden might be hiding there. Not surprisingly USA have garnered a reputation as a unpopular nation that bullies.

There is a War Against Terror in the UK, but we in the UK are resolved with the "stiff British upper lips" not to cower in the face of Al Qaeda, that we are entitled to use democracy to choose our government, and to choose our religion as we think fit. (Note it seems that mission of Al Qaeda is to convert nations to Islamic Sharia government by their version of jihad).


YOU SAID IT! Frankly, I even hate the TALK of fear. Frankly it just makes the extremists happy, etc... As for me? I flew in a commercial airliner within a week of the airports being reopened! I don't care. If I die, I die. BIG DEAL! Frankly, I am more scared of a spark setting off the fuel tanks, then I am of al Qaeda. As for Osama? I hate him more for his audacity, stupidity, causing all this conspiracy/mourn garbage, and the continued decline in the economy, that was starting to improve before his garbage, then I am about 2 stupid buildings!

And please consider. I HATE lies! I HATE lying! And frankly you don't know me! So WHY would I lie about something so trivial? The answer is clear, that I WOULDN'T! I could have said I had a 170 IQ, spoke 20 languages, got 4.0s in everything, etc... And I never did. Likewise, I am not lying here.

As for the wars? I hate them. I wouldn't have been so audacious, etc... The unfortunate fact, though, is that there has to be a clear resolution of some sort. Just stopping it will be seen as an act of fear, weakness, or lack of resolve. This is made even WORSE by the fact that it has happened before.

If I was in power the whole time(Although I am not that old), this would never have happened. I wouldn't have supported doing business with the arabs, or financing/supporting israel, so the arabs would not have known much about us, or had reason to hate us, or have been so agressive, or had the money or resources to do any of this, and usama(if he was even ever born) would probably have died as a kid in POVERTY! Who knows, he might even have died of POLIO!

Quite frankly, one of the parts of Star Trek I wish society had learned from. One of the most foreign and yet CLEARLY correct policies is that of the prime directive!



Orwell
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03 Sep 2007, 1:08 pm

2ukenkerl wrote:
santabarbarian wrote:
Thank you Orwell. I dare anyone here to google "WTC 7" and watch the collapse videos, and then explain how 19 Muslim extremists caused this building to collapse. While you're at it please explain to me how these terrorists got the US military to stand down on 9/11. If normal intercept procedures had been followed it is extremely unlikely that any single airplane would have crashed into the world trade center buildings or the pentagon, much less 3.


19 muslim extremists? ******NEVER******! 2 fully loaded 747s? CERTAINLY!

And HOW did the military "stand down" on 9/11? WHAT normal procedures?

Do you know why the metal detectors were put in? Here's a hint! *****METAL*****! !! !! ! They were put in to limit HIJACKS! Do you know what the policy was for HIJACKS???? Here's a HINT! SAME AS BANK ROBBERIES! GIVE IN!

THAT is why 9/11 happened! And do you think fighters were always flying around NY? Do you think they were able to track ALL those planes, etc?

There were actually only air traffic controllers at the various towers. Even TODAY they aren't very well organized.

So you think that they planned all this, right down to that last plane.


Um, yes, the FAA can and does track all airplanes in the air at all times. And yes, they can and do deploy fighter jets to intercept any airplane that goes off course. There are several air bases in the region relevent to this discussion, and fighter jets can move pretty dang fast. The FAA standard operating procedures would result in an off-course airplane being intercepted within ten minutes of going off course. Non-compliant airplanes (a red flag for potential hijacking) would be shot down. This does not require any special presidential authorisation, it is simply what the FAA knows they need to do to prevent hijackings and unnecessary death. However, there was a complete suspension of these procedures on 9/11, even after the first airplane had struck the WTC and the second was WAY off course and headed to NYC, fighters were not sent to intercept it.
A few other points... The planes the hit the WTC were 757s, not 747s. The Twin Towers were designed and built to withstand a collision from a 707, which is larger than the 757. Even if the steel beams lost most of their strength, the buildings would have stood because engineers are always careful to overdo safety features, especiallly on such a high-profile project. Google Hani Hanjour, the man who couldn't even handle a Cessna but got into the cockpit of a 757 and pulled off a manouvre that would be impossible even for most military stunt pilots. When that 757 hit the Pentagon, altitude records show that it was in fact sevveral hundred feet above the Pentagon, and its crash created an explosion which not only melted, but also vaporised huge amounts of steel, leaving no airplane parts remaining in the rubble, and yet left human flesh intact.


_________________
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH


santabarbarian
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03 Sep 2007, 3:18 pm

2ukenkerl

If you read the posts and respond to what is actually said there might be an actual conversation rather than a shouting match.

My post refers to the collapse of WTC 7, do you understand that?
WTC1 and WTC2 were hit by airplanes, WTC 7 also collapsed on 9/11 and was hit by nothing. Do you care to respond to the actual topic or will you just continue yelling about something irrelevant ? Have you ever seen the video of this collapse? Did you bother to look it up before your rant, obviously not.

As for the stand down by the military, do some research, I don't have the time or inclination to write you a 10,000 word dissertation on the subject. I will be happy to have the conversation with you if you could trouble yourself enough to even learn about the subject before you speak. Try a google search it's really not that hard.

The military tracks plane using flying radar planes (AWACS), they are not in the air traffic towers. Do you really think that the military relies on information from from civilian air traffic controllers? How naive.
Have you ever heard or NORAD? Of course fighters don't constantly patrol over NYC, but they can be scrambled to the skies above the city normally within 12 minutes. Normally there are pilots on duty and waiting to be airborne within 5 minutes of a hijacking or nation emergency. This did not happen at all on 9/11. In the 100 minutes this all took to unfold our military failed to get a fighter in the vicinity of any of the 4 hijacked planes. Was the military all on vacation? Of course not, there is obviously another explanation for this.

If you are willing to have an honest discussion and do some research you will learn quite a bit. And perhaps your conclusions will be different than mine, but your post was completely without merit because you did no research so you don't know what you are speaking about. In fact you didn't even respond to the questions raised in my post. Will you engage in this like an educated adult or will you plug your ears, cover your eyes and hide in the safety of ignorance?