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minervx
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01 Sep 2011, 12:35 pm

this does not only apply in dating, but often i hear people shifting the blame whenever there is a problem in any kind of relationship, whether it be a marriage or friendship.

i'm going to make a statement here:
whenever there is a problem in a relation between any two humans, both people contributed to the cause of it.

just because both people acted in a way that caused it, does not mean both were wrong in their actions. and one person may have been responsible for the majority of the problem. but its still two-sided.

when there are people who are not strong willed enough to stop other people from taking advantage of them (in anyway), for example, other person will. they both caused this problem, though that does not make the latter not guilty, it does not make the former completely innocent either.

there are plenty of other examples. in many situations, both sides could be right in some aspect depending on which perspective you look, or in many situations, there is no right or wrong, and its neither person's fault, just a bad match.

for example, some people want more privacy and see the other wanting to check their e-mails as intrusive, while other may want to check each others emails with their partner.

the truth is humans psychologically have cognitive biases which distorts the truth into the person's behavior. so everyone is capable of justifying what they did, no matter how wrong they are. so when, some person gives me their side of the story about how they are right and the other person is wrong. i usually do not give a verdict as i did not hear the other person's perspective. anyone who says they arent wrong and the other person is mostly or entirely wrong, i feel is likely closed-minded, wishful, ignorant, or stubborn.

i'm not perfect and i make mistakes, but i almost always try to admit when i'm wrong, recognize my errors rather than blaming it all or most on the other person.



emlion
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01 Sep 2011, 12:43 pm

the phrase 'it takes two to tango' comes to mind.



hyperlexian
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01 Sep 2011, 1:14 pm

HALLELUJAH. it is this awareness that led to the patented* disengagement process, a.k.a. the non-bitter, non-blaming, supportive, friendly end of my marriage. when BOTH parties take responsibility, are self-reflective, care about each other, and are willing to let things go... it creates a much better situation.

we talked extensively about the events that led to the end, and there isn't just one act or one thing. there was no bad guy. we're both decent people in the end and we couldn't make it work anymore. in many ways it was not a healthy relationship, but we care about each other's well-being and still try to support each other.

i know this isn't the case for most relationships, that it can end this smoothly or kindly or mutually. but to be honest, we were not angels during the marriage.... s**t happened etc. but we can see that each of us had some responsibility for the way things went.



*no, it isn't actually patented, silly.


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aliensyndrome
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01 Sep 2011, 3:03 pm

You're right!

Sorry, that was a joke based on what would have been a hypothetical poor choice of words.

I really appreciate the opening post, though. Thanks. I try to be aware of how I may have been wrong in these situations, even if the other party seems "worse".



theWanderer
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01 Sep 2011, 4:59 pm

minervx wrote:
when there are people who are not strong willed enough to stop other people from taking advantage of them (in anyway), for example, other person will. they both caused this problem, though that does not make the latter not guilty, it does not make the former completely innocent either.


For the most part, I agree with you. I even agree with this, if you're talking about someone who consents to being taken advantage of. But in cases where there is a real, non-consenting victim, then I would say your rule no longer applies.

Oh, and even where there was a previous relationship, those cases you hear about in the news where a guy kills his wife / girlfriend because she was about to leave / had left him - for all practical purposes, I tend to assume the killer was the problem. Period. If you're prepared to go that far, just because someone wants to leave you...


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TeaEarlGreyHot
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01 Sep 2011, 5:27 pm

Something a teacher once told me has rang true.

"There's an exception to every rule."

Abusive relationships are not always double sided in this way. Unless, of course, you want to blame the victim for "allowing" themselves to be abused. In which case, I would highly recommend you research domestic abuse and how subtle it can be.


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minervx
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01 Sep 2011, 5:42 pm

of course as dawn said there are exceptions.

i'm not talking about extreme cases like rape or violence.

i mean moreso conflicts...

is the person clingy or is their partner having too much alone time?
is the person intrusive or is their partner keeping secrets?

controversially, i say, in cheating, even though the cheater was the immoral one, and the fault is on him/her, in SOME cases the partner may have contributed to the cause.



TeaEarlGreyHot
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01 Sep 2011, 5:43 pm

minervx wrote:
controversially, i say, in cheating, even though the cheater was the immoral one, and the fault is on him/her, in SOME cases the partner may have contributed to the cause.


Examples, please.


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minervx
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01 Sep 2011, 5:59 pm

contributing to the cause and being at fault for are two different things.

i am NOT saying that cheating is justified morally if the other person does something to contribute to its happening. cheating is morally wrong in any realistic circumstance, in my view.

one person could ignore/neglect the other person, put them down at times, not communicate with them, not be a good listener, express very little love, and make them feel unappreciated (whether its on purpose or not), and that could result in the other person cheating.

now does the other person have the moral grounds to cheat? no, not at all. but it may not have happened if the other person had treated their partner better.

again this is only in SOME cases. in many cases, men are cheaters regardless of who they are with.



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01 Sep 2011, 10:28 pm

I think this is an important point...my husband had a real problem with blaming me for everything until fairly recently...because I have AS and I'm "the one with the problem" he would blame everything that went wrong on me. We're making headway, but he still clings to the idea that when we don't get along it's "mostly" my fault...I get so tired of having to carry all the responsibility. I wish he would recognize that very simple truth that when two people are having issues with each other, barring things like abuse, untreated addiction, etc, it is usually a SHARED responsibility.

~Kate


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theWanderer
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02 Sep 2011, 3:28 pm

Meow101 wrote:
I think this is an important point...my husband had a real problem with blaming me for everything until fairly recently...because I have AS and I'm "the one with the problem" he would blame everything that went wrong on me. We're making headway, but he still clings to the idea that when we don't get along it's "mostly" my fault...I get so tired of having to carry all the responsibility. I wish he would recognize that very simple truth that when two people are having issues with each other, barring things like abuse, untreated addiction, etc, it is usually a SHARED responsibility.

~Kate


Uh, wait... if he doesn't have a "problem", then he ought to bear a much higher share of the responsibility for making things go right... :wink:


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02 Sep 2011, 3:37 pm

My apologies if I were to say it....

I am sorry for not giving you attention and for taking your card for granted. I am more into making phonecall and email than giving cards and letters.

Secondly, I lost part of my faith in long term relationship. Before the decline of the relationship, I thought about the outcome of the long term relationship and this talk with your mother comfirmed this. It was about your health condition that may cause premature death from pregancy. Your premature death would make me a widow, a father who lost his wife and have to take care of the children for the rest of my life. The children would be sadden to learn that they are without a mom. To save you and myself the risk of that agony and pain, I neglected the relationship instead of "breaking up with you". For that same reason, I was being responsible for myself and you.

Lastly, I wanted to date you above other girls that were cute, and enticing. Your private confession of love that I heard from a friends and your reaction from talking to me intrigued me and won my decision to date you.

(sometimes truth hurt more than not telling it as oppose to telling lies) (Please notes that I write poorly and have to proofread and revise many times)



Chronos
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03 Sep 2011, 1:01 am

minervx wrote:
this does not only apply in dating, but often i hear people shifting the blame whenever there is a problem in any kind of relationship, whether it be a marriage or friendship.

i'm going to make a statement here:
whenever there is a problem in a relation between any two humans, both people contributed to the cause of it.


Unless simply having an objection to something the other individual did or didn't do as a contribution to the cause, then I disagree.

Sometimes there is an aggressor in a relationship.



Trigas
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03 Sep 2011, 2:07 am

minervx wrote:
contributing to the cause and being at fault for are two different things.

i am NOT saying that cheating is justified morally if the other person does something to contribute to its happening. cheating is morally wrong in any realistic circumstance, in my view.

one person could ignore/neglect the other person, put them down at times, not communicate with them, not be a good listener, express very little love, and make them feel unappreciated (whether its on purpose or not), and that could result in the other person cheating.

now does the other person have the moral grounds to cheat? no, not at all. but it may not have happened if the other person had treated their partner better.

again this is only in SOME cases. in many cases, men are cheaters regardless of who they are with.


False in some circumstances, if a person wants to cheat they will no matter what. My last gf did that and she even said I treated her better than anyone else had. :scratch: Though she was a bit estranged. Cheating is something I don't think most people want to "actively" do, there are many underlying issues with that type of behavior depending on the person.



minervx
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03 Sep 2011, 11:09 am

read the sentence directly under the one you bolded