Do you think that the United States is evil?

Post Reply New Topic

Vexcalibur wrote:

Do you live here?

The description perfectly fits the Republican Party.

I'll keep that in mind the next time there's an epidemic where you live. I'll call a few friends of mine that work at the CDC and tell them you don't want their evil help. Then they can stay home and we can go out to the movies.

Don't be so sure.

See: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... repression

China may have "gone capitalist" but political opposition is handled in a rather thuggish way. Chine is a thugocracy who leaders have learned to leave the businessmen pretty much alone. Let the geese lay the golden eggs as long as they do not cackle.

ruveyn

What, the sociopath thing or my question?

Being a Colombian, I think I can offer an insider's view on that.

We Latinos both love and hate (and love to hate) the U.S. It's the country that gave us (and the rest of the world) the electric bulb, the car, the airplane, the television and the internet. In an alternate world, some other people might have come up with all that, but in this world they all happen to be U.S. contributions to humankind. So, credit where credit's due. You guys make better sitcoms than we're able to produce ourselves.

It's also the country that gave the world the idea that everyone should have a chance to build a life worth living, regardless of your nobility titles, your class, your money or your connections. Let's not forget that 1776 went before 1789. It's the country that went through several identity crises to find out that those rights should be enjoyed by all races and genders. It's the birthland of such wise people as Henry David Thoreau and David Foster Wallace.

It's the country that put men on the moon.

I don't personally believe in the existence of evil. However...

It's the country that incited the already latent separatist sentiments in Panama and helped them secede from Colombia when our Congress wouldn't accept the unequal conditions of the canal building contract.

It's the country that ordered the murder of democratically elected Chilean president Salvador Allende just because he was a socialist and replaced him with the murderous dictator Augusto Pinochet, who made thousands' lives miserable for decades.

It's the country that expelled Native Americans from their birthplace and conducts its affairs on the same land while wanting to pretend the old dwellers don't exist anymore.

It's the country that annexed half of Mexico back when people knew what "Nevada" and "Colorado" meant.

It's the country where hatred between human beings is so taken for granted that civilians carrying guns is seen as a normal thing.

It's the country where suing each other is a viable livelihood.

It's the country that spent millions to rebuild Western Europe but won't pay decent wages to fruit gatherers, miners and call center operators who work for U.S.-owned companies located in Latin America.

It's the country that chooses to burn the finest of its technology and the fittest of its youth to kill those who seriously hate you instead of stop giving the world reasons to hate you.

I don't see the U.S. as evil. I don't personally see anyone as evil. You gave the world Sesame Street, but also Jersey Shore. You gave the world Martin Luther King, but also George Bush I & II. You are a great civilization that has made some really dumb mistakes, and because of the extent of your power, those mistakes have affected countless lives. That's who you are.

Actualy France ,in particular Paris, is renown as being a sort of ground zero, for the common persons struggle for greater human and or democratic freedom.It is true also that slavery was abolished in Europe at least 100 years before being made lilegal here in the states.Norway and Sweden are to be given a great deal of credit for their countries advancements in the area of economic equality and the corrisponding increase in individual freedom which is made possible by greater equality.
While the US bill of rights is said to be envied around the world as a model of democratic legislation;our actual record in regards to upholding the rights listed in that bill,has often been no better than the efforts made by nations who lack such human rights afirming laws.Keep in mind to,that the US Patriate act,has had the effect of legaly deminishing many of our nations advancements towards the cause of civil liberties and democratic governance.We should not boast so proudly of being the worlds greatest bastion of freedom,when in fact we have more of our own people in prison both in shear number, and per-capita than any other nation on earth.

not to mention the multitude of countries in europe that have their own bill of rights very similar to the us, inreality i think it was in fashion around that time, some before and some after the us.

It is my view that America cannot decide what it is and wants to be. It is a republic, with an empire. That Bush Administration was about as close as it has gotten to being an empire first and a republic second. As far as empires go, the USA is the one I would chose. What it will never overcome is the reality that despite it being a mostly benign hegemon, I cannot vote for it. The President is the leader of the free world but I was never asked if I wanted one. This will always create tension, since the present power structure is at a fundamental level, illegitimate.

That said, I once again state that of all the hegemons that have ever existed, the USA is the best. I would not trade it for the British Empire, the Roman Empire or the Pax Mongolica.

Exactly where are you getting your info from ruveyn;?
What evidence do you have that human beings have always lived'' primarly'' for their own sakes ? If humans have always lived primarly for their own sakes,why then has the human family,in some shape or form,been such an enduring human institution ? I would argue that the maintaniance of a functional family,requires the individuals who comprise that family surrender a good deal of their individual egocentrict tendacy for the wellbeing of the whole family.As far as your claim that egocentrists have a reproductive advantage,I would argue that the sexual mode of production common to mammals is in fact, even on a biological basis, indicative of a natural drive shared by individual creatures to transcend egocentrism.Is it not true that sexual intercourse,''particularly amongst humans,''represents a metaphysical merger of two seperate beings into one ? The physical act of intercourse requires both a physical and emotional adaptation of the individual to the realitiy that another person is involved in a drive and act that offers such tremendous personal pleasure.The fact that we humans do not reproduce asexualy ,gives credence to the argument that we are not by nature mostly egocentric beings,but in fact creatures desighnend by nature to transend egocentrism.
You should keep in mind also that mere physical reproduction,absent any effective means of protecting and rearing the young,would hardly be evolutionarly advantagious to the human race.And as those who have raised children know well,the proper rearing of children demands a great deal of ego abandonment on behalf of those raising the child !

Tyranny can be the only result of an arbitrary surrender of the needs of many to the needs of one or a few.This should be a readily identifiable truth to anyone with even the most base knowledge of history and or polotics.I never cease to be amazed at the manner in which ceartain elites can distort the common persons perception of even the most fundemental of truths,in order that those eltes might coopt the undue and misguided loyalty of the comon people..

Now again, concerning the injustice that must occour when the needs/wants of one individual are given presidence over the needs/wants of the many.Those who believe that individual rights are protected when the rights/wants, of the masses are made secondary,or not reconighzed at all,are,''if they truely beleive such an absurd proposition'',believing in nothing but a lie perpretrated by elites to serve their own exclusionary interests. If by some chance you have been led to believe this cruel fiction; then you should ask yourself this;jst how is it that individual rights are protected by the denial of the rights of the many,when in fact the many,or more correctly the collective,is comprised of many individuals !??
Do not fear the serpent with a forked toung;that devil is but a liar who seeks to enslave and or kill you;rather fear greatly your own split mind which in search of unity will have you believe that in enslavement you are free and in death you shall live.

No not evil. Greedy.

man, honestly, i can't see that much good in anything having to with people. the states are just as "evil" as anywhere else in my opinion. hell sometimes i wake up wishing the whole world burned down in my sleep.

He was saying that most people are self and family-centric and thus do not care much about humanity as a whole. While I am grateful to my parents for raising me and giving up so much, I can't really say it's all that admirable to do so, after all the instinct to raise offspring is so strong, that even a lot of mean spirited people have immense love of their own children. Most people will give up a lot for their family, but that's kind of 'gene selfishness' if you will, rather than true altruism.

I kind of agree, that part of what causes strife in the world, is the contrast in most people between the intense love they have for their family and the near-indifference they have for their fellow human being who is not akin to them. I am sort of in between in the sense that while I do love my family greatly, I am not really obsessed with them and honestly I care about the random person on the street almost as much.

Evil is a pretty harsh word. I admit I have my own personal grudges against my country, particularly the way we have victimized every non-caucasian race since our country started over 200 years ago. I mean stealing land from the Native Americans, enslaving Africans, wrongfully imprisoning every Japanese-American civilian during World War 2, raping and torturing Muslims in the Middle East and trying to cover it up. I could really go on forever about the bad stuff we have done.

However with that said, I don't believe we are truely "evil". We are no better or worse than every other country in the world. Every country since the beginning of humanity has done something to be ashamed of like hurting their own people or outsiders during times of war. Eventually those countries learn from their mistakes and attempt to become more peaceful and accepting like Japan did after World War II. Maybe some day the US will follow in their footsteps, you have to remember we're still a fairly young country so we have many years of mistakes ahead of us before we have a chance to fix them.

I can too.

You know what? It wasn't US who invented the bulb. It was someone contemporaneity to Edison and Edison was the one who spent years trying to find the best way to do it.


Anyway, when I say the US, I say the current US, that ... thing that started with McArthy's times. The original US, the one that drove innovation, the one that helped all the world find out about civil liberties (read my quote) is long gone. It has been replaced by republicans and democrats, two of the same coin.