How on earth can israel kill 9 civilians and get away with i

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91
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04 Sep 2011, 3:41 pm

Vexcalibur wrote:
If anyione saying Israel shouldn't exist as a state. What we have is people criticizing Israel for its policies, like happens with any country in earth and like conservatives love to do with many targets like Europeans, Russians or the Chinese. I don't get why Israel must be a sacred cow in any discussion in which US people are involved.


I can kind of understand. The media in Israel, particularly places like Haaretz are fantastic out meeting out evenhanded criticism; it still baffles me that some are allergic to this. It is not true that only US people see Israel as special, as an Aussie I can say that its true in large part in Aus too (though I understand why when people like Lee Rhiannon are out attempting to organize boycotts of Israeli businesses as Syria butchers its own citizens). There are people who are legitimately ANTI Israel and it can sometimes be difficult to establish the difference between Israel haters and people who are just attempting to criticize a particular policy.

That said, every criticism of Israel must be tempered by the fact that it's enemies do not recognize it's right to exist and have attempted to annihilate it, repeatedly. As for Gaza, I suggest you go there, it is not nearly as bad as it is made out to be, most of it is better than comparably urban and poor areas of Egypt and Syria. Further, the people of Gaza democratically elected their own bad government, one that has as its stated goal to destroy Israel so complaining that they get little sympathy is a bit of a stretch. Rather like a declared murderer, who having killed their parents throws himself on the mercy of the court on the grounds that they are an orphan. Further, if the Arab world wanted the Palestinians in Gaza to not be impoverished, they could be... they are poor, but mostly because the Arab leaders like the sense of urgency related to the situation. If Gaza does not wants the Israelis to deal with them in a different way then all they have to do is recognize that Israel has a right to exist.

*Edit: Fixed quote


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Last edited by 91 on 04 Sep 2011, 4:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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04 Sep 2011, 4:22 pm

Vexcalibur wrote:
Raptor wrote:
I find it more than a bit ironic that whenever there is mention about Israel that so many of these soft hearted, tolerant, equality minded liberals are against the existence of Israel as a state.
You know what hasn't happened in this thread? An occurrence of anyione saying Israel shouldn't exist as a state. What we have is people criticizing Israel for its policies, like happens with any country in earth and like conservatives love to do with many targets like Europeans, Russians or the Chinese. I don't get why Israel must be a sacred cow in any discussion in which US people are involved.

Quote:
Here you have a country for a people that have been historically persecuted in one form or another and the left wants to deny them a sandbox in the middle of a bad neighborhood that they can call home.

For starters it was stupid for them to start their nation just in the middle of everybody wanting them dead. And we love them so much, why couldn't we handle them an Island or a safe territory in US where they wouldn't be surrounded by enemies? No, we had to chose the desert and destabilize the whole area for no actual reason.

This victim card is getting old. Every country in earth has enemies and every country on earth should be evaluated by the same standards. More so, countries that are supposedly your friends should be heralded with a way stronger standard. If a country abuses human rights, you should at least be offended rather than make it evident that the US is a completely unconditional servant of Israel, ready to look away whenever they do any HR abuse. And let us stop pretending that they don't.

Quote:
On top of that they want to deny them the right to protect themselves from neighbors who would just assume wipe them from the face of the earth.

By any chance, they should protect themselves. And let's make it clear that they should protect themselves. But starting a HR crisis in Gasa in which civilians starve and are denied medicines is not self-defense. For god's sake, let us stop being stupid.


Stupid?
There have been several threads here attacking the existence of Israel as a state and for the most part it's been the left that's done the attacking. If not directly attacking their existence then by attacking the way they conduct operations to assure their existence which is the same thing as attacking their existence.
It's a rough neighborhood over there and sometimes they have to put on the brass knuckles or kick someone in the nads to get by.
I find it rather naive if not arrogant to sit back and judge their actions from afar.
But then again if you're rooting for the terrorists then i guess that's a whole other perspective and one that I don't care to understand......



Last edited by Raptor on 04 Sep 2011, 7:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

psychohist
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04 Sep 2011, 6:25 pm

ruveyn wrote:
BombsOnSyria wrote:
Israel killed 9 turkish civilians last year and they get away with it.How on earth is this possible?

How on Earth can the Syrian government kill 1000 of their own and get away with it?

There's a big difference between killing citizens of another country in international waters and killing citizens of a government's own country in their own territory. Governments often get away with the latter because all governments do it to a greater or lesser extent. The former is usually considered an act of war.



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04 Sep 2011, 7:42 pm

psychohist wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
BombsOnSyria wrote:
Israel killed 9 turkish civilians last year and they get away with it.How on earth is this possible?

How on Earth can the Syrian government kill 1000 of their own and get away with it?

There's a big difference between killing citizens of another country in international waters and killing citizens of a government's own country in their own territory. Governments often get away with the latter because all governments do it to a greater or lesser extent. The former is usually considered an act of war.


The Israelis were dealing with blockade runners. War is war. Any ship that tries to run a blockade will be dealt with harshly.

ruveyn



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04 Sep 2011, 9:18 pm

psychohist wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
BombsOnSyria wrote:
Israel killed 9 turkish civilians last year and they get away with it.How on earth is this possible?

How on Earth can the Syrian government kill 1000 of their own and get away with it?

There's a big difference between killing citizens of another country in international waters and killing citizens of a government's own country in their own territory. Governments often get away with the latter because all governments do it to a greater or lesser extent. The former is usually considered an act of war.
The Israelis were being attacked with metal pipes, knives, etc. which are lethal weapons, the Israelis only opened fire with live ammo after they were attacked with afore mentioned weapons.



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04 Sep 2011, 10:24 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
psychohist wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
BombsOnSyria wrote:
Israel killed 9 turkish civilians last year and they get away with it.How on earth is this possible?

How on Earth can the Syrian government kill 1000 of their own and get away with it?

There's a big difference between killing citizens of another country in international waters and killing citizens of a government's own country in their own territory. Governments often get away with the latter because all governments do it to a greater or lesser extent. The former is usually considered an act of war.
The Israelis were being attacked with metal pipes, knives, etc. which are lethal weapons, the Israelis only opened fire with live ammo after they were attacked with afore mentioned weapons.

The Israelis had intelligence that there were people on board that weren't there for humanitarian or journalistic purposes, and they even underestimated the situation which is how the fight happened. The passenger ship where the deadly fight took place had a cargo as well. Israeli intelligence missed that most of it's passengers were there on a one way ticket to collect 72 virgins. On that ship they found all kinds of knives, slingshots, metal pipe, bullet proof vests, and night vision goggles.

All the Palestinians really have to do is make a truce with the Israelis and they could start scaling back the embargo.


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04 Sep 2011, 11:06 pm

Vexcalibur wrote:
For starters it was stupid for them to start their nation just in the middle of everybody wanting them dead. And we love them so much, why couldn't we handle them an Island or a safe territory in US where they wouldn't be surrounded by enemies? No, we had to chose the desert and destabilize the whole area for no actual reason.

This victim card is getting old. Every country in earth has enemies and every country on earth should be evaluated by the same standards. More so, countries that are supposedly your friends should be heralded with a way stronger standard. If a country abuses human rights, you should at least be offended rather than make it evident that the US is a completely unconditional servant of Israel, ready to look away whenever they do any HR abuse. And let us stop pretending that they don't.

Quote:
On top of that they want to deny them the right to protect themselves from neighbors who would just assume wipe them from the face of the earth.

By any chance, they should protect themselves. And let's make it clear that they should protect themselves. But starting a HR crisis in Gasa in which civilians starve and are denied medicines is not self-defense. For god's sake, let us stop being stupid.


It's a sacrifice, it doesn't matter where you put Israel, Islamic fundamentalists would still be at war with it. In fact Islamic fundamentalists are at war with just about every country that houses "infidels". China has their problems with them, Russia has their problems with them, America has problems with them.

And quite honestly Israel is where it is for a reason. It couldn't be anywhere else.

It's a fantastic public relations campaign the Muslims are running. They do what they want, and when they are slapped in the face, they come crying to big daddy to make it stop. Typical Bullies.



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05 Sep 2011, 12:48 am

name one government that either didn't do anything to stop the immoral unjust killing of 9 people or didn't actively took part in the killing of 9 people... their all guilty of being human.

Why is Israel singled out? Is the murdering or killing (there's a difference between the two) somehow weighted more heavily if it is at the hand of an Israeli.... say compared to a Syrian, a French, or a Colombian?

I'm curious... How come no "How on earth can India kill 9 people and get away with it" threads? I know I'm free to start one but that is to get away from the point that your full of it!


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05 Sep 2011, 3:45 am

MarketAndChurch wrote:
name one government that either didn't do anything to stop the immoral unjust killing of 9 people or didn't actively took part in the killing of 9 people... their all guilty of being human.

Why is Israel singled out? Is the murdering or killing (there's a difference between the two) somehow weighted more heavily if it is at the hand of an Israeli.... say compared to a Syrian, a French, or a Colombian?

I'm curious... How come no "How on earth can India kill 9 people and get away with it" threads? I know I'm free to start one but that is to get away from the point that your full of it!


Midinoth Yisroayl is the only nation on earth that has to sue for peace after it has -won- a war.

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05 Sep 2011, 11:38 am

ruveyn wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
easy - they weren't really people.


Says who? You?

ruveyn


Says basic tribal logic. Not part of your tribe, don't have souls, not really people.


Not true. Jews have always accepted pagans to live with them provided the obeyed the Noachic Laws. You are projecting your Nazi psychology onto Jews. That is very perverse. Jews have put up with more sh*t from than enemies than any other people in the world. The only people in the world who have approximated the virtues of Christianity are Jews.

ruveyn


I don't know if you can say for sure that they have put up with more s**t than anyone else...I am not going to feel sorry for someone because they are a jew.



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05 Sep 2011, 11:58 am

Sweetleaf wrote:

I don't know if you can say for sure that they have put up with more sh** than anyone else...I am not going to feel sorry for someone because they are a jew.



Your pity is not only unrequired, it is useless.

When people are motivated by justice they do much more good then when motivated by pity.

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05 Sep 2011, 12:16 pm

On one night in 1945, the United States Air Force killed over 100,000 civilian in Tokyo, Japan, one of the most brutal and successful fire raids in history. Did we get away with it? You bet we did! I don't here you complaining about that. Apparently only when Jews kill civilians you whine and complain.

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05 Sep 2011, 12:19 pm

why can they get away with it? because no one has the balls to criticise or challenge israel, and it is f*****g stupid.



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05 Sep 2011, 12:49 pm

dopplercb wrote:
why can they get away with it? because no one has the balls to criticise or challenge israel, and it is f***ing stupid.


Actually they tried criticizing Israel only to have it blow up in their faces when the video evidence came out, showing the Israelis were attacked with metal rods, and knives.



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05 Sep 2011, 12:58 pm

ruveyn wrote:
psychohist wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
BombsOnSyria wrote:
Israel killed 9 turkish civilians last year and they get away with it.How on earth is this possible?

How on Earth can the Syrian government kill 1000 of their own and get away with it?

There's a big difference between killing citizens of another country in international waters and killing citizens of a government's own country in their own territory. Governments often get away with the latter because all governments do it to a greater or lesser extent. The former is usually considered an act of war.

The Israelis were dealing with blockade runners. War is war. Any ship that tries to run a blockade will be dealt with harshly.

Ah. Then the answer to the original question is, "Israel gets away with it because Turkey hasn't decided to enter the war over the killing of their civilians, at least not yet."



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05 Sep 2011, 1:00 pm

psychohist wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
psychohist wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
BombsOnSyria wrote:
Israel killed 9 turkish civilians last year and they get away with it.How on earth is this possible?

How on Earth can the Syrian government kill 1000 of their own and get away with it?

There's a big difference between killing citizens of another country in international waters and killing citizens of a government's own country in their own territory. Governments often get away with the latter because all governments do it to a greater or lesser extent. The former is usually considered an act of war.

The Israelis were dealing with blockade runners. War is war. Any ship that tries to run a blockade will be dealt with harshly.

Ah. Then the answer to the original question is, "Israel gets away with it because Turkey hasn't decided to enter the war over the killing of their civilians, at least not yet."


Also the fact the evidence is now out for the general public to see that the people killed whom were part of the flotila weren't exactly innocent in the first place. If someone came at me with a metal pipe, I'd shoot them too.