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Nadir
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09 Sep 2011, 1:30 am

Hi all, just to tell a couple of stories that happened this week at College about making friends and such.

1- I was at an orientation session with my girlfriend, we both study psychology and it's amazing how she handles my Aspie persona. In front of us there were a guy and a girl, I knew the guy (I have talked a few times with him and such in class), and my girlfriend knew the girl (both in the same Master's Program. Anyways I introduced her to the guy, and the same she did for me to the girl. After a while the guy said "nice to meet you" to my girlfriend, BUT.... here comes the funny part: since I have some automatic responses to certain things people say, such as "nice to meet you", I told this guy "nice to meet you too", and my girl looked at me like "ummm you already met him, silly...". Of course I realized I made a little mistake, the guy made a weird look on me, bleh... who cares.. lol Sometimes social skills learnt supposely to help you out making friends can make one embarrass himself :P

2- During the conversation with this guy and this girl, the guy said "oh so this is your boyfriend, one of the better students, he writes perfect papers", I usually don't get those compliments in person, so I was not ready for such a sound wave with awesome meaning. Ummm my reaction was the only one I could have, the honest side of an Aspie, which was... "yes, I can't do worse than that I think" while smiling. I didn't mean to be arrogant or anything like that, but then my girlfriend told me I made that mistake....

So that's it, just to share some silly episodes of my daily life, if you want more I have tons of stories, or you might want to share some in this thread.

Oh and for those with AS, I wrote it in first person sentences so you can use your imagination to recreate the situation. So make a little effort to imagine the scene. :D



MarketAndChurch
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09 Sep 2011, 1:49 am

yes I make the mistake of coming off as arrogant all the time myself, it's a battle of thinking my words on the spot and then editing out the offensive bits... to the point that I sometimes remain largely mute. It's wierd. I've also made the mistake of saying hi to someone who was speaking to someone else lol, but can't pinpoint why I did it, it was weird .

Your stories are interesting and it's good that you have awareness of these things, but are these *symptoms* of your AS, a reaction to the reaction of others to your AS, or something totally different? In other words, why do you think you do the things you do? ((just curious))


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Nadir
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09 Sep 2011, 1:58 am

Well depends, when he said "nice to meet you" I knew I was wrong seconds after, cause after all I am not stupid haha, but my reaction to his comment is the result of having to learn certain conversational skills, otherwise the conversation would be "nice to meet you" and I would replay "thank you", like I used to answer one year ago.

The rest are things my girlfriend analyzes with me everyday, she has a lot a patience, and she uses a logical process to make me understand certain things. She also tells me how the other person reacted to my comment, and the reason why he did. At the beginning I would argue with my girlfriend that I was not wrong with my comment because it's the holly truth, but after all she reminds me everyday that this world is about "pretending", especially with those who are not close friends. I have two good friends, and I don't ahve to put a mask on or anything, but apparently for the rest of Human Species it's necessary if you want to walk thrgough life without your nose broken hahaha

So yes, this is pure Aspie stuff that will always be there.



Chuzhack
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09 Sep 2011, 3:51 am

I used to have this thing: whenever told "thank you", I had the impulse to reply "it's okay" (like the reply to "I'm sorry"; I'm not sure I'm translating this correctly. In Hebrew it sounds totally wrong, because we literally say "it's not terrible" in this situation). However, when told "I'm sorry", I used to have a strong urge to reply "you're welcome". I usually caught myself just in time to say the "right" thing, though. I'm still uncomfortable with all that manners nonsense, like saying "what's up?" not expecting anything in reply but "Everything is fine". I pull that off pretty effectively, but I hate it. I always have the urge to say what I truly feel at the moment of answering that greeting.

I try really hard to deal with people by the method of "not giving a crap", but it's really difficult for me. However, ultimately I'd rather be hated by most and have a few friends whom I truly trust over myriads of superficial faked friendships with people who don't know me at all. Though it is scary to try and be truthful to myself... Can't say I'm doing all that well in that respect.



Mishmash
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09 Sep 2011, 6:55 am

I know how you mean about feeling awkward accepting compliments.
I always used to answer compliments like "You look really nice today" with "Thank you, but it's nothing, I really don't".
Then a friend who is a teacher explained to me that when someone compliments you, you should reply with "Thank you very much" or something good. She said that if you are negative when receiving a compliment the other person might feel bad and less likely to compliment you again or think positively of you. This is because the person is offering their opinion in an unspoken way. I.e. "[I think] you look really nice today" or "[I think] you did that really well" and if you reply "No I don't" or similar, you are unconsciously telling that person that you think they have poor judgement.
I never realised this before she told me, but it made a lot of sense afterwards.



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09 Sep 2011, 7:58 am

I am really enjoying this thread, and appreciate it. First of all, it's kind of explaining to me why, when anyone says to my son something like "see you later" he responds "you too" -- which doesn't seem to be quite right of a response, but it's also not a bad thing to say generally. I've always thought it wasn't a correct response, but I can't really put my finger on why it's wrong, so I haven't made a big deal about it. For my son, it's just a knee-jerk response, but seriously, it's not all that bad as it can be applied in multiple different circumstances.

The second thing I'm enjoying is Nadir's general demeanor on this thread, in that he's putting out there silly little "situations" that commonly happen. These things happen with NT's as well, but are probably a little more common on the spectrum. The attitude of "oh well" is the way ALL OF US SHOULD BE. Yeah, our responses might not always be appropriate, but why should we care? It's just a moment in time. We learn, hopefully, and move on. No big deal. In fact, the less you dwell on it, the better off you are.

AND, Nadir -- does your girlfriend have a sister? 'Cause I could sure use a girl like that for my son....



Ha
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09 Sep 2011, 8:45 am

Do WPers see this "problem" as something worth fixing? Or do you think it better to let it be and try to find people who think social chit chat is no big deal?

My son with Autism is 14. So I'd love to hear from college-age and older WPers if you think this is worth the effort it might take to change it? Can it be changed anyway? Is trying to change it damaging? My son wants very much to make friends. But has none.



Nadir
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09 Sep 2011, 11:26 am

I usually say "you too" as well for "see you later" or anything they tell me when saying "bye", that's funny that other people do that as well. And I was not able to change that, except that my girlfriend gave me the idea of saying exactly what the other person says "see you later" and respond "see you later", or "nice to meet you" and respond "nice to meet you", and so on.

Certain mistakes happen to NTs as well, but the difference is that a NT might make just that mistake, for an Aspie it's one more mistake to add up to the whole social interaction with that person, so it become stressful, like it was for me.

And to answer the questions about whether we should fix this problem or not... MY personal experience is that the more you learn about normal social interaction the more you get to interact with others in an efficient manner. Someone could argue that it all depends if you are interested on that person or not, but the fact is that when you want to progress in your carreer, you need to have certain social skills. My biggest sociel skills that I developed thanks to my family, is the ability to explain slowly with some humour at times. Which makes a young adult interesting. The first thing I tell a professor when I start talking is "interupt me when it is right for you, otherwise I will keep going for hours" and they apreciate it, and they usually respect turns in the chat.

Other than that, anything that helps someone develop social skills, and correct mistakes when socializing even if it's just to say "hello"... I think it's good, depends on the personality of that Aspie, if he is nice and someone who you can talk to, then yes start pointing some things out, of course give him some logic on why to change that, otherwise he won't see a good reason on doing that effort. ALSO remember 14 is a critical age, adolescence, and Aspies also have adolescence, so it might be harder, depends again on his perosnality.



Mishmash
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09 Sep 2011, 11:52 am

Nadir wrote:
The first thing I tell a professor when I start talking is "interupt me when it is right for you, otherwise I will keep going for hours" and they apreciate it, and they usually respect turns in the chat.


Good call - today someone asked me about my work...for the first time ever my response was "Of course, but are you very interested, coz I can go on massive tangents!". Their response was, in an amused manner, "Yes I am interested, how about you just go on a *small* tangent?"
This allows me to know that they ARE interested, but to keep it a brief overview, rather than an in-depth monologue, and then they can ask questions if they want to know more, or the conversation can move on easily if they don't.
One thing I am learning lately is to give people subtle hints of how they can help me (like the example above).



Ha
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09 Sep 2011, 12:16 pm

Thank you, Nadir. This helps. I love the humor.

Do you or anyone there have more tips on how to not get stuck with memorized social-skill pat phrases which can pop out any time whether they fit or not?

At 14, my son loves his adolescence. He feels more powerful and competent than he did as a child. He's had the time to develop as a musician and kickboxer. So he's really feeling his oats. Of course, he worries about girls and his Autism and communication challenges, etc. But he wants to socialize so bad he can taste it. Often, he comes across as desperate to please others.

All tips and experience and advice by you who have been teens appreciated.



Nadir
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09 Sep 2011, 12:47 pm

When I was in my adolescence, something that made me suffer a lot is trying to please others in a desperate manner. Especially with girls, if you do that people can take advantage of you and in the end make you suffer a lot. Something I would try (which is what I did), is engaging in some activity and pretending to do what the majority does, which is meeting somewhere, going somewhere all together and such. There is usually a leader or two who have these ideas and the rest join or not, but one of the problems an Aspie usually has is "why would I join them if I'll get bored?", oh well, it is part of a strategy. At first you have to do an act of integration and do an effort. Then, like in any group, people select one or two persons to become closer. I had many problems trying to join groups, I still have them. But as people mature they are more efficient at respecting differences among individuals. I am sure at the music place or kickboxing place there are people who he can go out with, he should try. It will probably be stresful at the beginnning, but as time goes by he will get used to those people and learn how to deal with them.

My personal outcome of all this is that I don't see why I need to get into groups to do the silly things people do when they go out. So I decided to get into a Hiking Club and such, where I feel confortable talking about "how wonderful nature is" or "this is like life, step by step" and some deep thinking that people in that context like. So after all, it's looking where you fit better, but to get to that point you must have had some prior experience (or perhaps someone can find it right away).

My final suggestion is sit down with your son, think consciously on the different types of groups there are in your area, what they do, and if what they do can give you some clues about their personality, see if one group matches with your son. He has to be part of that analysis. I say this because people who do climbing, or hiking, are not really gonna be jerks who smoke and drink the whole weekend, or get into drunk fights or people who don't care about anything, usually, and I say usually, people who go into nature and enjoy it are people who apreciate certain things about life.

Hope this helps.



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09 Sep 2011, 12:57 pm

I reply a thank you with a thank you or its okay when I am not thinking.

The other day I was discussing about some job I applied to with my friend and she said "you'll get the job just hope for the best" I replied with "I know" and then I realized t'was rude said "sorry I was supposed to say thank you for the encouragement". She laughed.



Mishmash
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09 Sep 2011, 1:03 pm

Nadir wrote:
But as people mature they are more efficient at respecting differences among individuals.


THIS is the best advice EVER! And this following....

Nadir wrote:
My final suggestion is sit down with your son, think consciously on the different types of groups there are in your area, what they do, and if what they do can give you some clues about their personality, see if one group matches with your son. He has to be part of that analysis. I say this because people who do climbing, or hiking, are not really gonna be jerks who smoke and drink the whole weekend, or get into drunk fights or people who don't care about anything, usually, and I say usually, people who go into nature and enjoy it are people who apreciate certain things about life.


This is great advice too. Find a square hole where the square peg will fit rather than wasting life being upset because the round hole doesn't accommodate the square peg. I spent too much time trying to be the glamorous girl pubbing puss that the girls I knew were (and being massively miserable).....now ten years later I work in the depths of an archive library where 95% of the staff dress funny, have special interests and are very clever. Finding where you naturally 'fit' is hard but SO worth it in the end! :)



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09 Sep 2011, 1:20 pm

Mishmash wrote:
I know how you mean about feeling awkward accepting compliments.
I always used to answer compliments like "You look really nice today" with "Thank you, but it's nothing, I really don't".
Then a friend who is a teacher explained to me that when someone compliments you, you should reply with "Thank you very much" or something good. She said that if you are negative when receiving a compliment the other person might feel bad and less likely to compliment you again or think positively of you. This is because the person is offering their opinion in an unspoken way. I.e. "[I think] you look really nice today" or "[I think] you did that really well" and if you reply "No I don't" or similar, you are unconsciously telling that person that you think they have poor judgement.
I never realised this before she told me, but it made a lot of sense afterwards.


Great fun, this! There exist cultures where the polite way to acknowledge that you've dressed well, etc. is to be self-deprecating, to say something like "aww, not really, but thanks." Or "ahh no, you're too kind!" Because to acknowledge it without deprecation would be considered rude, or a sign of immodest amounts of pride in your appearance, etc.



Mishmash
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09 Sep 2011, 1:25 pm

Agreed, great fun! :o)
I am white England-born and my friend was white south african (=don't know if this makes a difference or not)



Ha
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09 Sep 2011, 3:19 pm

I like the advice, Nadir and MishMash, to talk about possibilities of various groups.

We're just beginning this conversation. We've pretty much picked out Sierra Club outings to try first. They seem to have lots of great people from every healthy walk of life--a nice mix of loners and natural socializers.

My son and I have our best talks when we're walking about. Something about the rhythm of walking seems to tune up our language and put us more in sync.

Has anyone been on Sierra Club outings?

Do you like to walk and talk?