Idiots amongst people with A.S. (esp. in support groups)

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r_mc
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15 Sep 2006, 10:39 am

Hi,

I am undiagnosed and don't know whether I have A.S. or not. My parents have been pressuring me recently to join an aspergers support group, but I have some reservations about doing it. I have known several people who have definate A.S. tendencies, and two who I know have actual diagnoses. Of the two diagnosed, one was a very nice guy who liked bus timetables and the other was an arrogant self-obsessive who believed himself to be an "otherkin" (non-human soul in a human body) who used his diagnosis to excuse his bad behaviour. Of the people I have known who appear to have aspergers traits, about two thirds are really nice, or are at least decent human beings, and about a third display very negative personality traits. These include extreme arrogance, selfishness, and fundamentalist thinking (I've seen both religious and atheist examples).

I am very nervous around people, particularly ones I don't know too well, and don't want to end up in a situation where I'll be bullied or ostracised (I have had lots of bad experiences with this sort of behaviour). What sort of people do these groups tend to attract? I was also wondering what experiences other people have had with these groups.

Thankyou for your help!



Raph522
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15 Sep 2006, 11:24 am

r_mc wrote:
his diagnosis to excuse his bad behaviour.
I don't like it when people do this... it makes everyone with AS seem like A--holes.

r_mc wrote:
What sort of people do these groups tend to attract? I was also wondering what experiences other people have had with these groups.
I think those groups attract all types of people. usually people looking for friends or people with problems trying to find ways to deal with them... Unfortunatly you cannot tell what type of people(mean or nice) there are until you join.. maybe you can ask to sit in on a group to see if you like it and would like to join... I am not sure if they would let you though..

anyweay..... HI!



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15 Sep 2006, 12:59 pm

I joined a local group but havent gotten up the nerve to go yet.They seem like nice people ,based on their e-mails,but I am sure that there will be one jerk when ever more then 5 people are in a group.It's just a statistical probability.If their behavior is not encouraged by the group,they usually will get bored and go away.(I think aspies are pretty good at confronting bad behavior..at least on this board)I think it would be worth a try...you can always get up and leave if it doesnt fit for you(That being said,I need to screw up my courage and go to the group I joined)


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SamuraiSaxen
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15 Sep 2006, 4:09 pm

Hi, I'm new on this community. I'm undiagnosed too, and I think I have asperger because I have almost all AS charactereistics I found on Internet.

r_mc wrote:
the other was an arrogant self-obsessive who believed himself to be an "otherkin" (non-human soul in a human body) who used his diagnosis to excuse his bad behaviour.


Before I got information about AS, I was like this guy. I thought I was "something more" trapped in a human body, I was in a wrong place in a wrong time; all this because people around me think I am weird, clumsy, and almost all that AS tendencies. When I saw the topic of an article "Asperger Syndrome", I said "what's that?", and my curiosity helped me to find the aswer for my problem. I discovered I'm a human, different to the normal people, but human after all :) .

I think this guy isn't accepting AS, and he/she is trying to use this excuse.

When I discover I had AS, I talked with my mom and my sister, I accept I was a little confused, nevertheless I think my family (specially my father) didn't accept my true condition, they have been presuring me with commentaries like "hey, don't do that, it's a bad manner", and I respond "oh, I didn't know", finally they say "don't be stupid, you know very well what a bad manner is". Neurotypes don't understand AS people have problems with expressions and body language. So, when my best friend asked me about my weird behavior, I told her I had AS and I explain her what it is, not as an excuse, but like a help for me, like saying "hey, can you help me for understanding the normal but complicated human world?".

Maybe that guy has a problem.


r_mc wrote:
Of the people I have known who appear to have aspergers traits, about two thirds are really nice, or are at least decent human beings, and about a third display very negative personality traits. These include extreme arrogance, selfishness, and fundamentalist thinking (I've seen both religious and atheist examples).


I read in an article that extreme arrogance and selfishness can be an AS characteristic in some people with this disorder. That's the reason why some aspergers are nice and others not. But you can try to find in all that people good characteristics in order to have a good relation :wink:

This was my point of view, and sorry for my poor english :oops:



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15 Sep 2006, 8:57 pm

SamuraiSaxen wrote:
I read in an article that extreme arrogance and selfishness can be an AS characteristic in some people with this disorder. That's the reason why some aspergers are nice and others not.


I think that's just what it might seem:
Selfish - because we can't sense the needs of others
Arrogance - for instance, we might treat "superiors" like equals, which is considered disrespectful, because we don't know it's wrong (especially at school, before we learn otherwise).

Of course there'll always be some mean people as long as there are humans, even among aspies.



VesicaPisces
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16 Sep 2006, 2:33 am

superfantastic wrote

"Arrogance - for instance, we might treat "superiors" like equals, which is considered disrespectful, because we don't know it's wrong (especially at school, before we learn otherwise)."

How is treating others with equality wrong?


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16 Sep 2006, 7:44 am

I once was in an Aspie group. There were no arrogant people at all, some were ignorant to their problems, but they were really nice people. I think it is because the arrogant don't have that much problems for themselves that they would join a group.



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16 Sep 2006, 10:41 am

I've found there's a particular mentality that happens in support groups most of the time. It's kind of... anti-political, often self-pitying, generally miserable, medicalized, therapized, unpractical, making all problems into that person's individual problem, lots of things I don't tend to enjoy being around. And this is regardless of what kind of support group it is, or for what kind of people. So, I don't tend to go to them.

For instance, you could find this even in incest support groups. And, while I've been through incest, I have pretty much nothing in common with the mentality of most people who keep coming back to such support groups, even if our experiences are about the same. Same with autism, or migraines, or having disabled relatives, or anything else people generally go to support groups about.


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superfantastic
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16 Sep 2006, 12:41 pm

VesicaPisces wrote:
superfantastic wrote

"Arrogance - for instance, we might treat "superiors" like equals, which is considered disrespectful, because we don't know it's wrong (especially at school, before we learn otherwise)."

How is treating others with equality wrong?


I know you're right, but in the NT world hardly anyone sees that.
It usually isn't appreciated if the teacher/parent tells you off for something and you try to reason with them, exposing all of your reasons and arguments for doing whatever (or to prove you weren't doing it). They call it "answering back", as opposed to a healthy debate or whatever. They don't like for their authority to be challenged.



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17 Sep 2006, 3:24 am

There are positive and negative people amongst any group of people, AS not withstanding. You also have to look at how some of these people have been brought up. Personality traits are generally defined by how someone is brought up, and there are likely a lot of AS types out there who have been through a lot of negativity, both at school and at home. If this is to be the case, chances are that's where the selfishness and arrogance stems from.

I'm in a support group, and I don't really see that sort of behavior. Some are more talkative than I would have imagined. As far as aspies being fundamentalists and all, that probably depends on where there special interest lies. If it's religion, I can truly imagine an aspie becoming a religious fundamentalist. He's read up on the stuff and knows what he is talking about, so he'll disprove a lot of opposing ideas. That's sort of dangerous, but still though ... I haven't really come across that.

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17 Sep 2006, 6:45 pm

I have been going to an Asperger society for I think 4 months now. We meet twice a month.

There is a monthly meeting, where usually about 15 people turn up. At the last one of these we had a guest who was researching AS/autism for a prospective TV programme. One Aspie, unfortunately, was hostile, suspicious and confrontational towards him. He left early in the meeting - or more like he half left, and was half escorted out. This is the only trouble I remember at the society and the rest of the people who attend are nice, Aspies and NT's alike. There are usually 3 or 4 NT's attending who work with ASD in various capacities.

I will say also that the Aspies at the society are a very, very diverse bunch.

There is also a monthly social, held on a Saturday where we go to some local venue or other. The same 4 people (including me) turn up every month. But they are always pleasant, lovely occasions.



vivreestesperer
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18 Sep 2006, 1:31 am

Yeah, I'm part of an Aspie social group with very nice people in it whose company I enjoy very much.

Kate



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18 Sep 2006, 2:23 am

I haven't had experience in AS support groups, but if they're like every other group setting, there's bound to be at least one idiot or jerk. A couple of rotten apples doesn't ruin the bunch, meaning that the idiots are a small minority while the majority of people are great to be with.


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18 Sep 2006, 2:46 am

I tend to avoid other Aspies.. not because I dislike them but because I get.. pushy.. around them.. I demand too much from them and have a bad habit of expecting them to be able to do the same things Ive worked hard to be able to do and get really angry when they give up or get depressed.

I have a few aspie friends who have gotten used to it and actually tend to thank me these days when I refuse to let them give up and tell them they can do better but with people I just meet I can come across as kinda scary :P


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18 Sep 2006, 6:56 am

Hmm, I vaguely remember being at a support group for autistic adults where I was pretty much at starvation level all the time, because I couldn't cook no matter how hard I "pushed myself," and people there were telling me "But it's easy" and trying to get me to try a bunch of things I'd already tried, or to do a bunch of things that were as far beyond my abilities as cooking is. I can imagine how that'd look to someone who assumed everyone had all the same abilities as them as if I "wasn't trying," but to me it looked as if pretty much everyone there was totally ignorant about the fact that not everyone autistic has the same abilities to begin with. :?

I'm never going to thank them for that, in fact I quit attending after realizing that the effort it took to listen to them say useless stuff like that was taking away from the effort I could spend on more useful things.


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