The difference between genius and savantism?

Post Reply New Topic

- From Wikipedia

Oh right... so savantism is when you're a genius, but you're "negatively" mentally atypical. But wait, no apparent abnormalities other than the ability? Isn't that genius?

What the heck is the functional difference between a savant and a genius if a savant can be a savant without first having a "negative" mental atypicality?

I hear the term to be used most often on memory, but is this really compulsory? Isn't superhuman ability in any area already genius? Should we drop the term savant entirely, and just call the existing ones geniuses (ie Aspie genius etc)?

Reason for this is I'm wondering what to classify myself as. Before you start on the whole "you should learn to be humble" nonsense, I'm being quite matter-of-fact here. In the same way that my social skills are virtually nonexistent, I believe myself to be ugly and I believe myself to completely lack self-esteem and have next to no chance at friendship or marriage, I also believe it to be a fact that my reasoning abilities are in the superhuman range relative to my peers and lecturers. Which allows me to breakdown, understand and combine concepts beyond the imagination of any of the people I know, understand topics which nobody else I know can, and create completely new theories almost at will that explain phenomena people merely describe, which do not contradict any already conventionally held theories.

It's not exactly useful for getting a job, friends, a wife or all the stuff I might want in life, but throw away/diminish this ability and I'll be inferior to my peers in almost every other way. As much as I got screwed on part of the deal, I'm not gonna throw away the part I got in return.

It seems to be some unspoken social rule that "Thou shalt not say that you are smart." but I'm hoping this kind of rule does not apply in a community of Aspies.

So......

Can there be such a thing as a logical/reasoning savant?

A genius does what they do with conscious awareness and intent.

A savant has a specific ability which they did not acquire intentionally and cannot explain how they are able to do it.

Yes, it is possible to have both savant syndrome and giftedness, but it's rare. Daniel Tammet is the only case I know of.

The difference is mostly that giftedness is much more generalized than savant syndrome. Savant syndrome involves a very high skill level in a small area, when compared to the person's other abilities. Giftedness involves a very high skill level in large areas, probably multiple large areas, which is not too much higher than the person's other skills.

Savant syndrome example:
Joe has autism and his academic skills and development is average or a little behind. However, he has an extreme talent for reading--he learned to read at the age of two. By the age of six, his spelling was perfect even in obscure words and he had worn out two dictionaries from studying them. At eleven, he won the national spelling bee. In high school, he is still in special education, but attends regular English classes, where he struggles with comprehension but has such a natural talent for grammar and spelling that his teachers have learned that if they disagree, Joe is probably right. He hopes to use his talent for grammar and spelling to become a professional proofreader.

Giftedness example:
Jane's academic skills are good, and her development in general is average or a little ahead. Her nursery school teacher found her reading a children's book to the other toddlers in the class, explaining the events in the book and correctly pronouncing the difficult words. She was tested and found to have a high IQ, and because she was unusually academically advanced, the school recommended she be allowed to start the first grade instead of kindergarten. Throughout her school years, Jane showed talent in most areas, but especially in writing; by the sixth grade, she was writing short books and her grammar was as good as any adult's. In high school, Jane is in advanced-placement classes and works as an editor and writer for her school newspaper. She is taking a few writing classes at the local community college and hopes to become a writer.

So here we can see the big differences in these two cases:

First, Jane's talent is more broad. She is good at reading, grammar, syntax, creative writing, and journalism. Joe, on the other hand, has extreme talent in a much smaller area: Spelling and grammar--the mechanics of writing.

Second, Jane's talent is closer to her other abilities. She's gifted in most areas, and writing is just her best subject. On the other hand, Joe is average in some areas and, because he has autism, probably below-average in many others--it's only in the area of writing that he is extremely talented. (Most people with savant syndrome are actually developmentally delayed--which makes their special abilities even more striking and easy to recognize.)

Third, Joe's talent is more extreme than Jane's. His savant skill developed very early, and he is more skilled in his savant skill than Jane will be in that particular area--while she is good at grammar, he is near-perfect; while she was writing her first (likely clumsy and unpublishable) books, he was proving himself the best speller of all the nation's eleven-to-fourteen-year-olds.

They have some things in common, though.

They both have some degree of flexibility--Jane more so, because her talent is broader. However, the English language requires flexibility because of the many atypicalities in grammar and spelling; and to become really good at learning the patterns of the language, Joe too has to understand how to deal with all those variants.

They both have the potential to use their talents as a career; again, Jane's giftedness allows her more flexibility than Joe's savant skill, because while she could become an English teacher or a journalist or a fiction author, Joe is limited primarily to editing and proofreading.

They are both likely to enjoy using their abilities. Whether it's turning in a paper with perfect spelling and grammar, or writing a hard-hitting expose on the school cafeteria's mystery meat, both teenagers probably find it satisfying to show off what they can do.

And, though Jane is again likely to be more flexible in her learning ability, both are capable of learning, improving, and applying their abilities in new ways. While savant syndrome gives Joe less flexibility than giftedness would, he still has the same ability to learn as an autistic person with his general abilities; rather than staying with the exact skills he had as a hyperlexic pre-schooler, he learned to spell words out loud, proofread others' writing, and express his knowledge of grammar well enough to succeed in English class.

Another way of looking at it is that genius is a high degree of general intelligence, while being a savant means having a high degree of specific intelligence.

A genius can be smart in maths, music, language, and social skills - all at the same time. A savant may be a genius in only one of these, and may even have little or no comprehension outside his or her special interest.

Would I want to be a savant? No way!

A genius? Certainly!

So a savant is a rapier and a genius is a broadsword, if I want to liken ability to weapons (kind of appropriate with all that "cutting-edge" metaphors).

That answers the question quite neatly. Thank you.

More like a savant is like a well-honed Katana, while a genius is like a drawer full of Titanium-Steel Ginsu knives.

In theatrical terms a Savant is like a single spotlight illuminating only the face of one actor, while a genius is the rest of the lighting system that illuminates the entire stage more-or-less equally.

People who aspire to win Nobel prizes or get professorships or become academics tend to use their intelligence the same way models use their looks - to climb social ladders.

A genius is somebody who understands the universe is an illusory prison of the sensory system that only provides a limited paradigm map. A true genius probably realizes their life is a series of cascading nuerochemical events that drives them to stay alive and follow their biological programming to perpetuate their DNA (yes folks that's the payload our biological shells are designed to carry). I imagine people in this category become reclusive and naturally avoid social contact as much as possible to stop themselves going mad over why others can be so superficial.

In this respect I would rather be a Savant, at least my obsession with one field of study would be enough keep me from drawing myself into the big picture view that we are prisoners of our own sensory interpretations.

This explains it perfectly.

However, I do remember one guy on TV who had been recently diagnosed with Aspergers. He was very high functioning and his autism was not at all obvious. But, he also had a savant ability with numbers and could do amazing calculations in an instant. It appeared to be some sort of synesthesia - he subconsciously converted numbers into colours and patterns. If I remember the interview correctly he appeared to be unique in that he was savant, but didn't consider himself to be disabled. Unlike other savants, he was able to explain it somewhat.

I would say it depends on my beginning life situation or where I am living. Genius if it is a place where peers don't pick on you for being a genius. Genius can adapt and learn fast, and with being smarter than the next person I don't think there is room for manipulation or conniving actions toward the genius. Yes the world can be depressing and as long as you don't become consumed by who people are I think being a genius could be fun.

Something that you all should consider is that these labels aren't mutually exclusive. You can actually be both.

(savant comes from french and latin)
From French "savant" from Latin "sapere", and means to know, or having skills
Savant A person of learning, especially one who is versed in literature or science.
A person who is considered eminent because of their achievements.
savantism -- The condition of being a savant.

Whats up here then??
"Savant syndrome is a condition in which a person with a mental disability, such as an autism spectrum disorder, demonstrates profound and prodigious capacities or abilities far in excess of what would be considered normal"

A new ailment of being skilled or instructed, **alarm**alarm** dangerous skills among people
lets medicate; your money and your life!! !

/time to step in wiki for source-checking and get a banner for unreliablity over this page \
i dont know if that works anymore, wiki is rather spiralling downwards(medical was the worse already)
its also in french, which doesn't make sense but at least it starts with:( n'est pas un diagnostic médicalement reconnu, mais le psychiatre américain Darold Treffert le définit) unrecognized diagnostic defined by dr darold treffert, targeting a career, i suppose?

A genius is usually an all-round gifted, inquisitive person, who has an enormous capacity for focus and developing ideas, artistic expression or whatever.
A savant may be gifted, but can also be of average or even lower intelligence with one abnormally developed skill - a splinter skill, which often stands alone as a lighthouse, if you know what I mean.

Daniel Tammet, the savant, a mathematical wiz, who can see calculations as colors and graphic expressions developing before the wild result comes up on his inner screen, and who paints his "calculative landscapes", is in fact very gifted and neither seems, nor identifies as autistic.
He took on the task of learning to speak a decent icelandic in 9 days, I think, or at least a shockingly short time - and he actually did it.
Now he has written some language courses.
So he is a "genie savant".

But, I wanna drawer full of Katanas.

You're spot on in a few points! There are actually two kinds of Savant Syndrome though! Congenital (like what you describe) and Acquired (like me!) which is significantly less common, maybe 50 or so in the world. Acquired Savants don't typically have the limitations that Congenital Savants have though. Each situation is different and VERY RARE.

Daniel Tammet is amazing! Keep in mind that he has multiple abilities though and not just Synesthesia. He combines them all together very to teach people a lot about human capability and autism, but he does other amazing things too, which makes him a Genius in my book.

Another cool High Functioning Autistic Savant is Temple Grandin. She has an amazing story too!

To be completely fair, there is some obvious overlap between the terms Savant and Genius and they get used interchangeably from what I can tell. It's part of the reason why I don't like the name 'Savant Syndrome', it set's an unrealistic (and ambiguous) expectation with some people.

Darold Treffert is the authority on Savant Syndrome and you can switch Wikipedia back to English on the bottom left area under Languages or 'Autres langues' if you're in French