Aspies responsible for attracting manipulative behaviour? NO

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MrXxx
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20 Sep 2011, 6:39 pm

Maje wrote:
Yeah, well ok, since this is going to be impossible... I will just say some words... First you understand what people react to. If you dont understand that, its probably a deficit (according to people´who know this). Yes I change my vibes towards potential rapists etc. How the f*** do I explain that? I play the I-am-dangerous-and-it-will-be-a-hard-task-trying-to-abuse-me role. I was diagnosed with AS by a professional 2 weeks ago, and knowing what I emit is maybe the one thing in the world Im good at. (That doesnt include controlling it at all times, but surely I have used tricks like these in times when they where necessary). Its surely manipulative... Why am I answering to this?

I have been thinking if I ever am confronted with a hungry lyon .... if I could fool her with my stronger (fake) personality, so that she wouldnt attack me according to the risk.


Ah, yes...

But now you are in the realm of "realization, acceptance, and adapting."

The three stage process we all go through, and each of us is at a different stage of it. Many have not yet realized they even have Autism. Many have realized it, but have not yet accepted and embraced it. Many have accepted, and embraced, but have not yet learned to adapt.

Until one reaches that final stage, and develops some adaptation skills, one is usually very ill-equipped to have any clue as to what they are "emitting" to others. It is they who are most susceptible to manipulative types. It is they who wouldn't have a clue how to stop "emitting" whatever it is that attracts manipulative types.

One really needs to go through steps 1-3 before they can even do that. Simply telling them to jump to stage 4 doesn't really help. It's like telling a child who hasn't yet learned to crawl, to run in order to escape a fire.

The child simply isn't capable of it yet.

I agree with you in that we do need to learn how to emit something that doesn't attract these kinds of people, but in order to get to the point where it's possible, there are other steps we need to go through. I guess I'm just trying to fill in those blanks for those who don't understand how to get to that place.

We should remember too though, that not everyone can get that far. Some can't even "put on faces" and aren't capable of faking anything.


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Jayo
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20 Sep 2011, 7:58 pm

MrXxx wrote:
"if you know what you emit... it's controllable..."

Yeah, I can agree with that, but don't forget that "knowing what you emit" is exactly the sort of thing that Autism makes extremely difficult, if not impossible. That is part of the effect of Autism, so it's not that simple to just change the "vibes" you are sending to others if you don't even know and can't understand what they are.


As the original poster of this thread, I have to say that this comment is bang on and I agree with it 150%. It was the whole crux of my argument - how can you possibly know not to project "those vibes" if you don't even know how to define "those vibes"? It's not a concrete concept, it's wayyyy too abstract and sensory-perceptive. Knowing is half the battle, they say, well it's also a prerequisite to conquering the other half. I still remember my intolerant stepmom saying to me as a teenager, "if only you saw yourself on camera, you'd realize how ridiculous you come off around other people." Well, actually, no, I wouldn't - somebody would have had to point out and explain to me which interactions were "bizarre" in order for me to understand (on an intellectual level, at that).

I also remember being in bars with a group of friends, around the age of 21 (I had a circle of trusted friends who accepted me, luckily) and they pointed out certain ways I'd walk past people in a crowd, or hold a beer while talking to someone, and was told that this suggests that I lack confidence. I had no idea of this until they told me, and it didn't make sense, but I still made a conscious effort to practice otherwise (and I emphasise, conscious...) and I can say that it was very rare that I got harassed or threatened in bars.



AtticusKane
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20 Sep 2011, 8:10 pm

Ettina wrote:
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Also, if you're gonna be walking down dark alleys alone at night, you might not want to be wearing a skirt and heels. Not that you deserve to get raped if you do anyway, but, well..... if you cover yourself in meat and run into the forest, don't be surprised when you get ate.


Contrary to stereotypes, rape perpetrators aren't particularly more likely to rape a woman who dresses attractively. The biggest characteristics they tend to pick out are vulnerability characteristics such as low self-esteem, rather than attractiveness characteristics - they generally go for the women who make easier victims. Ironically, women with low self-esteem are actually less likely to dress really sluttily, because they're more likely to have body image issues leading them to want to hide their bodies.

.


I didn't mean what you construed it as. Skirt and heels = easier access, not more attractive. That was my point. If you make yourself an obviously easy target, then people will see that you're an easy target.



Ettina
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21 Sep 2011, 12:25 pm

[quote]"if you know what you emit... it's controllable..." [quote]

I don't agree. There are plenty of things I do that I know put me at risk, but I can't help doing them anyway.

I tend to blurt out very personal things about myself to people I've just met. The only way I can stop myself from doing this is to simply not talk, because once I get started talking anything I think goes straight out my mouth. This tendency has meant a couple of times that people found out perceived vulnerabilities about me (such as the guys who come on to me forcefully as soon as they find out I was sexually abused) or assumed that since I was being so personal that must mean we were closer than we are.

I don't look around when I'm walking, instead I tend to stare at my feet. I've heard this makes you a more attractive target for mugging. (I also get lost easily because of this.) But if I were to try to look attentive as I'm walking, it would take continuous concentration.

I was told, when I was being bullied, that people who don't seem upset by bullying tend not to be targeted again by bullies. But I can't help reacting emotionally. Even when I tried to ignore them, my 'ignoring' was more of a 'withdrawing-in-terror' sort of thing. I can't seem to hide my feelings at all.

Knowing what about you makes you look like a target certainly helps, but it's not a cure-all.



Maje
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21 Sep 2011, 4:59 pm

Ettina wrote:
I tend to blurt out very personal things about myself to people I've just met.


I relate because I seem to not have a degree of friendship to anyone. Its either ok or not. I accept people as my friends from the first moment. Now I let time pass before I start talking, so that people think they have time to get to "know me" first. :wink:

Ettina wrote:
I don't look around when I'm walking, instead I tend to stare at my feet.


I relate, but have managed to overcome this problem. Now I look wherever I want, move however I want. Oh my, that was a long and hard process.

Ettina wrote:
I was told, when I was being bullied, that people who don't seem upset by bullying tend not to be targeted again by bullies. But I can't help reacting emotionally. Even when I tried to ignore them, my 'ignoring' was more of a 'withdrawing-in-terror' sort of thing. I can't seem to hide my feelings at all.


I relate, but I am not bullied anymore. I was bullied from ca. 11y to 14y. I have even teased it out of people sometimes and learned how to turn it and make it ridiculous.

Ettina wrote:
Knowing what about you makes you look like a target certainly helps, but it's not a cure-all.


It is a matter of practise. If you just do as if... people will take it as it seems. Im finished with this. I dont care how I seem, I perfectly manage to stick out, even though its tough when people laugh sometimes.

Practise:
I remember a task I learned from as a child.

My mother was upset about something (I have forgotten what) and she wanted to know who of her children was guilty of the crime.

I played the I-have-a-problem-hiding-that-Im-guilty role even though I didnt know anything about it (I was not guilty).

It was very effective! She immediately picked me as the guilty one and didnt believed me afterwards about this story. She even told me sentences like "I know you"... when I tried to explain. (ironic?)

People judge!

@MrXxx: Regarding those 3 steps: maybe NTs jump from step 1 to step 3 and never go through realizing/accepting the "mutual manipulation"? Apparently it is for them sort of matter of course how things seem to them. Wouldnt a manipulator have an easy play in this game?



Verdandi
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21 Sep 2011, 6:36 pm

AtticusKane wrote:
I didn't mean what you construed it as. Skirt and heels = easier access, not more attractive. That was my point. If you make yourself an obviously easy target, then people will see that you're an easy target.


No correlation. Someone out to commit an act of violence isn't going to switch targets because one is wearing a skirt and another pants.