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techstepgenr8tion
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Joined: 6 Feb 2005
Age: 44
Gender: Male
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Location: 28th Path of Tzaddi

04 Oct 2011, 3:29 pm

I'll first start with a precursury topic: I have had at least a couple friends who say they've seen angels. What I've noticed they have in common - visions like this happened when their lives were in many ways testing their sanity. For those who don't believe they're flat out lying or have friends who similarly say things without being the types who take motivation to lie - what do you think it is?

My take - its really a Jungian event. In dreams the conscious and subconscious mind keep corporate minutes (as well as perhaps other parts of the brain). When a person goes through long periods of on-going stress, particularly being out of sync with themselves - which it seems like it has been in my friends' case, that internal dialog really gets wild to where your subconscious is actively screaming at you.

From that perspective IMO it will come to pass that these types of internal dialog will be guided by what your upbringing has been, what your spiritual beliefs are, etc. - because its really your own mind regurgitating its own imagry.

What I don't know, and what I am somewhat agnostic on is the possibility that there could still be something further behind the subconscious that feeds in; ie. the people who do have, lets say, clairvoyance through such events where, again, something on that pipeline will hit the subconscious and the subconscious brings it to the conscious mind in a format that, hopefully, the conscious mind will be able to make use of. As bland and scientific as the world we know it is I'm sure the mechanisms here are easily just as bland and scientific - although - we can just as easily admit that reading the step by step description of what something like, say, psilocybin does while interacting with neurons vs. actually experiencing it, much like the pathways of 'psychic' experience could be likewise.

Overall though - my amateur opinion - what we see between both the claims of the supernatural and sightings of angels and the like as well as psychic ability when we can't refute it or the public faith healers who seem to be doing some uncanny things that just won't go away and who we can't really locate fraud in; I think this comes along the same chain.

Its all a bit of an infant hypothesis but my take is that, when people have visions - even when it coming from people with proported healing abilities - tha its really two things coming together; ie. the 'religious' iconology is their upbringing, the actual delivery is something separate that we don't necessarily have our heads around but at the same time its connection with a god is purely a narrative brought on by the subconscious, as its trying to tell us something pretty wild and, not having the exact language, and perhaps human language might not house the right tools, it sends imagry, mood, and whatever else to send the message forward.

A few of the things I'm still curious to resolve:
1) The situations people have been in when they've had religious sightings through history
2) Are there Islamic/Hindu/Buddhist faith healers comperable to Christian/Catholic? Same/similar delivery? Same talk of their own belieifs?

I have a strong suspicion to the answer for both of these 1) trauma, 2) yes - all, but I'd still love input.

I think it would be interesting to sort of sow all of this together and see *everything* as a contiguous object rather than contradictory/compartmentalized notions. For those of you who know me, lol, I'm not a fluffy new-agey kind of guy. Still, nonetheless, I hate mysteries and tend to see them as huge wastes of opportunity.

Anyway - discuss.


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“Love takes off the masks that we fear we cannot live without and know we cannot live within. I use the word "love" here not merely in the personal sense but as a state of being, or a state of grace - not in the infantile American sense of being made happy but in the tough and universal sense of quest and daring and growth.” - James Baldwin