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Joker
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06 Oct 2011, 4:39 pm

JakobVirgil wrote:
minervx wrote:
Here are probably some compromises that both parties can agree on:
1. Job training for the unemployed.
2. Taxcuts for middle/lower class
3. Tax deductions for small businesses


I am on board.
Lets add stopping corporate bailouts.
(I would couple this with stronger anti-trust but since we are compromising here I won't mention it.)
Also a less interventionist foreign policy.


I am all for it 8) Sign me up



JakobVirgil
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06 Oct 2011, 4:44 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
minervx wrote:
Here are probably some compromises that both parties can agree on:
1. Job training for the unemployed.
2. Taxcuts for middle/lower class
3. Tax deductions for small businesses


I am on board.
Lets add stopping corporate bailouts.
(I would couple this with stronger anti-trust but since we are compromising here I won't mention it.)
Also a less interventionist foreign policy.


Problem with your argument.

Tax cuts for lower class, got news for you they don't pay Federal Income Taxes, it would be a handout.

Possible problem with your argument:
How do you define what a small business is?


Did you know that Federal Income Tax is not the only tax?

And before we get our panties in a bunch about size
the Small Business Administration sez
Quote:
small business size standards on an industry-by-industry basis, but generally specifies a small business as having fewer than 500 employees for manufacturing businesses and less than $7 million in annual receipts for most nonmanufacturing businesses.

so we could go with that. :?


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Their hungry thirsty roots??

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MarketAndChurch
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06 Oct 2011, 4:51 pm

minervx wrote:
Here are probably some compromises that both parties can agree on:
1. Job training for the unemployed.
2. Taxcuts for middle/lower class
3. Tax deductions for small businesses



I support the job training for the unemployed if that came out of public university funding(unless it is vocational training). They owe society for the massive crushing student loans debt that we are in and don't produce jobs.

Though my ideal is to tax everyone, and have even compromised on taxing the bottom 20%, I can even support cutting taxes for the middle class, but I'm tired of these districts then sending spend-happy officials to DC. If you don't see 40% taken out of your paycheck, runaway spending is non-existent, and 1 trillion wasted is the new 1 billion, and 1 billion is the new 1 million. Also, you pay for the sins of your choice. Half of America voted for Bush, and the other half voted for Obama more recently... Very expensive choices, and whether you voted for them or not, we have to pay for their stupid policies. Also, it will make our budget deficit go down.

I support tax deductions for small businesses but the problem with Obama's current proposal is that these tax cuts are temporary, and only a stable permanent tax system will give business the confidence to hire long-term or permanent workers. Payroll tax cuts aside, I wholly support tax cuts for small businesses in general. The Democratic party does too, largely in spirit, but some of their members don't:

Quote:
A small but vocal group dislikes the payroll tax cuts for employees and small businesses. “I have been very unequivocal,” said Representative Peter A. DeFazio, a Democrat from Oregon. “No more tax cuts.”

His voice rising to a near shriek, he added: “We have the economy that tax cuts give us. And it’s pretty pathetic, isn’t it? The president is in a box.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/15/us/po ... .html?_r=1


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Tadzio
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06 Oct 2011, 4:53 pm

ruveyn wrote:

If "green" technology is viable, the market will take care of it. The Federal government did not subsidize home computers, desk tops, lap tops, ipods and the like. They were viable technologies and did not need government subsidies. On top of that, any area which the government subsidizes will attract scams and swindles like honey attracts flies. Government subsidies are poison. Tax breaks to innovative industries, but NO, NOT ANY subsidies.

ruveyn


Tax Breaks will not result in allowances to violate the Second Law.

The Federal Government subsidized the entire infrastructure that made technologies viable.
The technologies will die shortly after the infrastructure dies. The suprastructure is a myth.

What? The last smart-card just quit working?

Tadzio



MarketAndChurch
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06 Oct 2011, 4:54 pm

JakobVirgil wrote:
minervx wrote:
Here are probably some compromises that both parties can agree on:
1. Job training for the unemployed.
2. Taxcuts for middle/lower class
3. Tax deductions for small businesses


I am on board.
Lets add stopping corporate bailouts.
(I would couple this with stronger anti-trust but since we are compromising here I won't mention it.)
Also a less interventionist foreign policy.


Those 5 qualify not just for this list, but would pass with bi-partisan support amongst the American people.


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Inuyasha
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06 Oct 2011, 4:56 pm

MarketAndChurch wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
minervx wrote:
Here are probably some compromises that both parties can agree on:
1. Job training for the unemployed.
2. Taxcuts for middle/lower class
3. Tax deductions for small businesses


I am on board.
Lets add stopping corporate bailouts.
(I would couple this with stronger anti-trust but since we are compromising here I won't mention it.)
Also a less interventionist foreign policy.


Those 5 qualify not just for this list, but would pass with bi-partisan support amongst the American people.


Sure, we can start with Fannae Mae and Freddie Mac not being bailed out anymore.



JakobVirgil
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06 Oct 2011, 4:58 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
MarketAndChurch wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
minervx wrote:
Here are probably some compromises that both parties can agree on:
1. Job training for the unemployed.
2. Taxcuts for middle/lower class
3. Tax deductions for small businesses


I am on board.
Lets add stopping corporate bailouts.
(I would couple this with stronger anti-trust but since we are compromising here I won't mention it.)
Also a less interventionist foreign policy.


Those 5 qualify not just for this list, but would pass with bi-partisan support amongst the American people.


Sure, we can start with Fannae Mae and Freddie Mac not being bailed out anymore.


I am on board for that.


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We must not buy their fruits:
Who knows upon what soil they fed
Their hungry thirsty roots??

http://jakobvirgil.blogspot.com/


Inuyasha
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06 Oct 2011, 5:00 pm

JakobVirgil wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
MarketAndChurch wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
minervx wrote:
Here are probably some compromises that both parties can agree on:
1. Job training for the unemployed.
2. Taxcuts for middle/lower class
3. Tax deductions for small businesses


I am on board.
Lets add stopping corporate bailouts.
(I would couple this with stronger anti-trust but since we are compromising here I won't mention it.)
Also a less interventionist foreign policy.


Those 5 qualify not just for this list, but would pass with bi-partisan support amongst the American people.


Sure, we can start with Fannae Mae and Freddie Mac not being bailed out anymore.


I am on board for that.


This would pass the house, but wouldn't pass the senate.



JakobVirgil
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06 Oct 2011, 5:11 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
MarketAndChurch wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
minervx wrote:
Here are probably some compromises that both parties can agree on:
1. Job training for the unemployed.
2. Taxcuts for middle/lower class
3. Tax deductions for small businesses


I am on board.
Lets add stopping corporate bailouts.
(I would couple this with stronger anti-trust but since we are compromising here I won't mention it.)
Also a less interventionist foreign policy.


Those 5 qualify not just for this list, but would pass with bi-partisan support amongst the American people.


Sure, we can start with Fannae Mae and Freddie Mac not being bailed out anymore.


I am on board for that.


This would pass the house, but wouldn't pass the senate.


Are you talking about un-bailing out the FM's?
Well we would not have to worry about the senate.
The laws of time would stop us first.
And my Tardis is broken anyway.


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?We must not look at goblin men,
We must not buy their fruits:
Who knows upon what soil they fed
Their hungry thirsty roots??

http://jakobvirgil.blogspot.com/


Inuyasha
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06 Oct 2011, 5:19 pm

JakobVirgil wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
MarketAndChurch wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
minervx wrote:
Here are probably some compromises that both parties can agree on:
1. Job training for the unemployed.
2. Taxcuts for middle/lower class
3. Tax deductions for small businesses


I am on board.
Lets add stopping corporate bailouts.
(I would couple this with stronger anti-trust but since we are compromising here I won't mention it.)
Also a less interventionist foreign policy.


Those 5 qualify not just for this list, but would pass with bi-partisan support amongst the American people.


Sure, we can start with Fannae Mae and Freddie Mac not being bailed out anymore.


I am on board for that.


This would pass the house, but wouldn't pass the senate.


Are you talking about un-bailing out the FM's?
Well we would not have to worry about the senate.
The laws of time would stop us first.
And my Tardis is broken anyway.


I'm not talking about using any ex post facto laws, I'm saying they never receive another bailout and get shut down.



JakobVirgil
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06 Oct 2011, 5:24 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
MarketAndChurch wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
minervx wrote:
Here are probably some compromises that both parties can agree on:
1. Job training for the unemployed.
2. Taxcuts for middle/lower class
3. Tax deductions for small businesses


I am on board.
Lets add stopping corporate bailouts.
(I would couple this with stronger anti-trust but since we are compromising here I won't mention it.)
Also a less interventionist foreign policy.


Those 5 qualify not just for this list, but would pass with bi-partisan support amongst the American people.


Sure, we can start with Fannae Mae and Freddie Mac not being bailed out anymore.


I am on board for that.


This would pass the house, but wouldn't pass the senate.


Are you talking about un-bailing out the FM's?
Well we would not have to worry about the senate.
The laws of time would stop us first.
And my Tardis is broken anyway.


I'm not talking about using any ex post facto laws, I'm saying they never receive another bailout and get shut down.


Then count me in.


_________________
?We must not look at goblin men,
We must not buy their fruits:
Who knows upon what soil they fed
Their hungry thirsty roots??

http://jakobvirgil.blogspot.com/


Inuyasha
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06 Oct 2011, 5:25 pm

JakobVirgil wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
MarketAndChurch wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
minervx wrote:
Here are probably some compromises that both parties can agree on:
1. Job training for the unemployed.
2. Taxcuts for middle/lower class
3. Tax deductions for small businesses


I am on board.
Lets add stopping corporate bailouts.
(I would couple this with stronger anti-trust but since we are compromising here I won't mention it.)
Also a less interventionist foreign policy.


Those 5 qualify not just for this list, but would pass with bi-partisan support amongst the American people.


Sure, we can start with Fannae Mae and Freddie Mac not being bailed out anymore.


I am on board for that.


This would pass the house, but wouldn't pass the senate.


Are you talking about un-bailing out the FM's?
Well we would not have to worry about the senate.
The laws of time would stop us first.
And my Tardis is broken anyway.


I'm not talking about using any ex post facto laws, I'm saying they never receive another bailout and get shut down.


Then count me in.


Welcome to the Republican Party.



JakobVirgil
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06 Oct 2011, 5:28 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
MarketAndChurch wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
minervx wrote:
Here are probably some compromises that both parties can agree on:
1. Job training for the unemployed.
2. Taxcuts for middle/lower class
3. Tax deductions for small businesses


I am on board.
Lets add stopping corporate bailouts.
(I would couple this with stronger anti-trust but since we are compromising here I won't mention it.)
Also a less interventionist foreign policy.


Those 5 qualify not just for this list, but would pass with bi-partisan support amongst the American people.


Sure, we can start with Fannae Mae and Freddie Mac not being bailed out anymore.


I am on board for that.


This would pass the house, but wouldn't pass the senate.


Are you talking about un-bailing out the FM's?
Well we would not have to worry about the senate.
The laws of time would stop us first.
And my Tardis is broken anyway.


I'm not talking about using any ex post facto laws, I'm saying they never receive another bailout and get shut down.


Then count me in.


Welcome to the Republican Party.


Thanks for the invite but it turns out I would need to cut the military by 95% and stop support of Israel.
I also have this irrational fondness of rationality so I don't think it would be a good fit.


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?We must not look at goblin men,
We must not buy their fruits:
Who knows upon what soil they fed
Their hungry thirsty roots??

http://jakobvirgil.blogspot.com/


John_Browning
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06 Oct 2011, 5:31 pm

MarketAndChurch wrote:
i am making a compromise


#Allow and promote wide spread gun-ownership while increasing wide spread gun control policies.
That still wouldn't make gun control work. Firearms being used in violent crime is merely a symptom of larger, more widespread social problems. I'd compare gun control to cutting the top of a wart off, but the wart would at least be temporarily less of a problem. The same cannot be said of tightening the regulation of guns to solve other social problems.

#Allow Gays to marry but give it a new name. And allow Civil Unions in all 50 states.
I guess.

#Allow illegal immigrants citizenship, and pass the dream act while closing off the border.
No. That would not make them any less detrimental to our society. They would still compete for jobs with existing American citizens and visa holders, they would still rely heavily on social services, their kids would still drive down test scores and the quality of the learning environment for other students, it wouldn't do anything to reduce gangs and both violent and property crime, there would be more people sending even larger sums of money from each paycheck out of country so their presence would still continue to create a conservatively $100 billion net loss to our economy annually.
#Raise taxes on everyone except for the bottom 20%, raise them way way more for the uber wealthy, raise them just way more for the wealthy, and then raise them more for lower wealthy(500k to 1 mil), but cut spending dramatically and pay down the deficit.

#Federal ammendment to make Abortion legal in all 50 states but stop federal funding of it.
Maybe if third trimester abortions stay banned except in the generally accepted extreme cases, and minors have to get parental consent except in cases of incest, but require a paternity test at some point. I haven't had time to think about the details of this one.

#Cut off Foreign Aid to Israel to Israel, and foreign aid to every other nation as well. (until we've cut the deficit in half)
How about work out a treaty for the developed world to waive the debts of the third world and most of the developing world (nobody's ever going to see that money again anyway), and a treaty between the more developed countries to at least partially waive whatever debts they owe to each other. I can't work out all the details in a text box. That would require teams of economics experts and diplomats years to work out.

Then, cut humanitarian and military aid to everyone except when it serves American interests. Most of those people only like our handouts rather than us anyway.


#Stop Aimless Sprawl but curtail Liberal Smart Growth Policies... by, for example, Smart Sprawl.
What the hell is that supposed to mean? There is too much red tape in city planing as it is. The one thing I will advocate is making laws that make it harder for developers trying to circumvent relatively new eminent domain reforms from driving away long time rural property owners through litigation.

#Make it easier to fire crappy, union-protected teachers but reward outstanding instructors, especially in maths and sciences with six figure salaries.
Sure, just as soon as that kind of money exists for the school system.

#Federally Invest in "Green Technology" research and development to the tune of 10's of billions but lift the oil moratorium and keep our oil companies tax rates low.
How about cutting all the red tape hurting business so that the green technology industry can thrive on it's own? If green technology is ever going to be cost effective (without creating extrenalities) it will need to be able to compete on a level playing field with technologies that use fossil fuels. Right now, green technology is still at a state in it's evolution where manufacturing and selling it is more profitable than using it.

#Allow more of the highway trust fund to be used to subsidize current public transportation and increasing services and options to the public, while also building more and more and more roadway, bridges, and highways.
Are you suggesting doing twice as much work on the highway infrastructure with half as much money? Are you a voodoo economics apologist? And why would you spend highway funds on other forms of transportation that do not serve nearly as many people? Your proposal would be a disaster for all aspects of the transportation infrastructure controlled at the state level.

The task here is not to agree with me or even call what I've listed a compromise, but to make your own compromise list that throws a bone to the opposition that'll somewhat make everyone happy. I'd just like to see an effort made and see what people consider compromise. I'm sure there's a moderate pragmatist in all of us, and that's what I'm looking for.
It's one thing to negotiate without an ulterior motive of promoting a partisan agenda, it's another to be so open-minded that your brain falls out.


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Inuyasha
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06 Oct 2011, 5:33 pm

JakobVirgil wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
MarketAndChurch wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
minervx wrote:
Here are probably some compromises that both parties can agree on:
1. Job training for the unemployed.
2. Taxcuts for middle/lower class
3. Tax deductions for small businesses


I am on board.
Lets add stopping corporate bailouts.
(I would couple this with stronger anti-trust but since we are compromising here I won't mention it.)
Also a less interventionist foreign policy.


Those 5 qualify not just for this list, but would pass with bi-partisan support amongst the American people.


Sure, we can start with Fannae Mae and Freddie Mac not being bailed out anymore.


I am on board for that.


This would pass the house, but wouldn't pass the senate.


Are you talking about un-bailing out the FM's?
Well we would not have to worry about the senate.
The laws of time would stop us first.
And my Tardis is broken anyway.


I'm not talking about using any ex post facto laws, I'm saying they never receive another bailout and get shut down.


Then count me in.


Welcome to the Republican Party.


Thanks for the invite but it turns out I would need to cut the military by 95% and stop support of Israel.
I also have this irrational fondness of rationality so I don't think it would be a good fit.


Uh there are problems with your argument.

1. Military is for national defense cutting it by 95% is idiotic to say the least.

2. The United States actually relies on Israel for some defense hardware and we also owe Israel a fair bit of money.



blauSamstag
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06 Oct 2011, 5:45 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
Uh there are problems with your argument.

1. Military is for national defense cutting it by 95% is idiotic to say the least.

2. The United States actually relies on Israel for some defense hardware and we also owe Israel a fair bit of money.


1: Who are we defending it against?

2: So make it a cash deal. What's wrong with that? Also if you are referring to treasury debt that is nothing like us owing them money. It's a financial instrument that has nothing to do with military or other material aide. If they purchased T-bills we will pay them back the same as any other T-bill.