You Were Right and I Was *gasp* Wrong.

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2Ex2
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06 Oct 2011, 12:13 pm

I began posting on this site over a year ago, and received lots of great advice that I decided not to follow. Since then, things have gone downhill. I can't remember my old username, and after trying multiple times to have passwords sent to what I thought may have been my old username, I gave up and created a new account.

I've got two kids out of five that have been diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome. The oldest is now 14, and has had nothing but trouble and bad grades for the last six years or so. The younger Aspie is 5 and she's just now in Kindergarten. They were diagnosed a little over a year ago, but the oldest had a previous diagnosis of ADHD.

A little background: My oldest was under a year old when he began to speak in full sentences. He shook a lot (looked like he was shivering, especially when talking), cleared his throat constantly, flipped his fingers and often swayed back and forth while talking. He began to teach himself to read at three and by four was reading books. I took him to a doctor for a checkup and she said she thought he might have a neurological problem, maybe autism. I was furious. How could my brilliant little boy be autistic? I took him to another doctor for a second opinion and got what I wanted to hear. He was gifted. I shouldn't worry.

When my son started school, he was embarrassed when they tried to teach him letter sounds and didn't even tell them he could read. After a couple of days, I met with the teacher and had him read to her. He was set out into the hall to study on his own. He finally was sent to first grade to study with them, but was still considered to be in Kindergarten. This went on through first grade and finally, he was able to skip second grade and go straight to third. That's when he started to have trouble. He was bullied, began to lose track of his things, and his straight A status went to Fs. The school was great about working with me, but he continued to be bullied and so eventually we made the move to another school. It became a repeat of the first school They were great, but he still had trouble. We moved him to another school, supposedly one of the highest rated schools in Illinois. It has been the worst by far. They refused me any help at all the whole time he was in junior high, and he had constant detentions and Saturday schools for forgetting to bring the proper books and supplies to class, for being aggressive (he was constantly bullied), and for being late to class because he would often forget which class came next.

I went in and begged for help and the guidance counselor said there was nothing she could do. She would need a diagnosis. My son and husband refused, not wanting to have a label. This went on for two years when I finally put my foot down and took him to be evaluated, along with my four year old. She'd been taking tumbling classes and I was asked by three different teachers if I'd had her evaluated for austism. So, they both ended up with Asperger's , and my teen also was diagnosed with ADHD and a mood disorder/depression/anxiety. My daughter was also diagnosed with social and specific phobias.

So, I came to WrongPlanet asking for advice and was quickly advised to get an IEP in place. My son did not want any attention drawn to himself and refused to accept the diagnosis and was furious with me for having him tested in the first place. I decided to just inform the school of his diagnosis and work with them. They were kind enough once they had the diagnosis, and made accomodations for him, mainly having a second set of textbooks at home, 9 meetings throughout the year with a social worker to help him get organized, and after school help three days a week. The grades didn't change. He decided to apply to IMSA and even made it through to the interviews, but they ultimately chose not to select him and I'm sure it was because the teachers that wrote his recommendations let them know that he is an underachiever and won't do his homework. He was devastated and stopped trying to do any work at all and got mostly failing grades for the last nine weeks. This year, we had another meeting, and two of the teachers that he has been having the most trouble with did not show up. I emailed them both, and one was very willing to help. The other one says that my son doesn't turn in homework and has trouble staying awake.

I'm sorry this is so long...but what it amounts to is that this teacher is being really hard on my son, which causes him anxiety, which in turn causes him to forget his materials for class, which causes him to get Fs and that causes more anxiety. This teacher seems to think this is a behavioural issue that he needs to be disciplined for. So, he has a Saturday School detention for using up all his passes (they are allowed fifteen per nine weeks and that includes bathroom passes). He often forgets his book or can't get to that class on time, because it's the farthest from his locker. The social worker is trying to get him organized enough that he can make it to class on time and with the proper materials, but so far he's still having trouble. To look at or talk to my son, you'd never know he has Asperger's. It affects mostly his time management, organizational skills and his ability to prioritize. He's learned to control his tics. He can make eye contact for short amounts of time. He makes straight As on tests and scores at the 99th-100th percentile on standardized tests. I think this teacher thinks that my son is just a spoiled know-it-all, and that I'm one of those mothers whose children can do no wrong. I sent him a long (and very nice) email explaining my son's condition (stomach issues and gluten sensitivities as well and the note from his doctor) and some information on Asperger's, thinking since he missed the meeting and didn't hear all this, that he might be a little more understanding if he had the same information the other teachers had. I received a curt, two sentence reply. "______ simply fails to turn in work and has trouble staying awake. Assignments are posted every Monday and he is encouraged to write them down."

I spoke to the guidance counselor, the social worker, the principal and the associate principal about getting the Saturday School dismissed because I believe it is due to issues beyond my son's control (stomach problems, anxiety, forgetfulness), but they said it still stands, but from now on, they'll take his AS and stomach issues into consideration.

So, what I need to know is, what steps exactly do I need to take to get an IEP in place or do you think what I have is enough? Is what I have below just an accommodations plan or would it be considered a 504? Can I even try to get an IEP now that we have this plan instead? They really are going out of their way to help...all except the English teacher. I need simple, easy to understand instructions. It seemed so complicated when explained to me last time, that I was really intimidated. I'm definitely going to go ahead with an IEP for my daughter who's already experiencing problems in socially and with following instructions or directions.

Thank you for reading all this and for any help you can give me. I've posted our accommodations plan below.


Accommodations Plan for _____________
9.27.2011

Diagnosis of Aspergers’s, ADHD (unmedicated) and potential mood disorder (depression) on 9/2010.


Concerns: Homework Completion, Organization and Time Management.

________ will have an extra set of textbooks at home (fee paid for by the parents).

_________ will complete his Assignment Planner at the beginning of every week.
• __________ may turn in any work completed by the end of the class period.
• If __________ turns in completed homework at the end of class, classroom teacher will sign off on that day’s assignment.

__________ will use a designated folder system to organize his homework papers for each class.

Parents will establish a routine for homework completion at home. Suggested the use of 20 minute timers to keep him focused and organize his time.

__________ will attend the EXTRAS program when it starts on October 11th.

___________ will meet with the social worker on Friday’s after lunch to work on organization and other social concerns.
• Color Coded reminders of what bring materials to bring for each class.

Utilize visual cues in the classroom. Provide written directions for assignments or projects.


These accommodations will be in effect beginning 9.27.2011.
Teachers and Parents will meet again at the end of the 9 weeks if we do not see improvement. _______ is expected to be in attendance at that meeting.



diniesaur
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06 Oct 2011, 12:28 pm

I think it is DEFINITELY a good idea to have him attend his own meeting, whether or not he improves. It helped me a lot to have a say in my accomadations and to see that most of my teachers were trying to help me. Also, it's stupid that your school limits the bathroom passes, and you should get it changed for him since with his stomach problems and the anxiety of being bullied he may start needing to throw up every day (I did). Also, the bathroom is a good place to calm down if he absolutely can't handle the noise or bullying or something. I think you should switch back to one of his old schools, though, and get him in honors and AP classes.



2Ex2
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06 Oct 2011, 12:38 pm

Thank you for that. He didn't want to attend any of the meetings because he gets so anxious. We've tried medication, but he hated the way it made him feel. I understand because I was on ADD, depression and anxiety meds for years and found some to be horrible.

The principal, the nurse and guidance counselor are supposed to get together to determine if he can have additional passes. I gave them a note from his doctor. I agree that it's a ridiculous rule.

Unfortunately, we've bought a house here and his two younger siblings are doing well in this school system. Attending IMSA was the only feasible choice he had to switch schools, but he didn't make it in. He's also begged to be homeschooled, but my husband doesn't think it would be a good idea. He already teaches himself independently much more than he's ever learned in school.



2Ex2
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06 Oct 2011, 12:40 pm

I'll make sure he attends the next meeting. I think you are right, even if it makes him nervous. The other problem is, though, that he doesn't think he has Asperger's. It makes him angry if I even bring it up.



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06 Oct 2011, 1:18 pm

I would recommend an IEP instead of a 504.I am going through the same problems with my son. He just started middle school and it has been horrible. A teacher who is trained to work with ASD children has finally been consulted. She is working with the teachers, counselors, special Ed. etc to develop an IEP that fits his needs. IEP's are more powerful than a 504. Parents and students have specific rights with IEP that you do not have with 504. Stay on the school.



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06 Oct 2011, 8:14 pm

2Ex2 wrote:
To look at or talk to my son, you'd never know he has Asperger's. It affects mostly his time management, organizational skills and his ability to prioritize. He's learned to control his tics. He can make eye contact for short amounts of time. He makes straight As on tests and scores at the 99th-100th percentile on standardized tests. I think this teacher thinks that my son is just a spoiled know-it-all, and that I'm one of those mothers whose children can do no wrong. I sent him a long (and very nice) email explaining my son's condition (stomach issues and gluten sensitivities as well and the note from his doctor) and some information on Asperger's, thinking since he missed the meeting and didn't hear all this, that he might be a little more understanding if he had the same information the other teachers had. I received a curt, two sentence reply. "______ simply fails to turn in work and has trouble staying awake. Assignments are posted every Monday and he is encouraged to write them down."


My son is exactly this same way (except when he isn't, right?) and we struggled for years trying to figure out what the heck was going on and then to get him appropriate help. It took a serious crisis to get the school to come around, but finally they did. That being said, I don't think you need a crisis, but there are some teachers that have their minds made up. The easiest option might be to request either a different teacher or for the school to provide a tutor for this one class.

Fortunately for all of us, the world's understanding of autism is changing. I'm sorry for over-sharing (I just posted this elsewhere today) but I was thrilled to find this document for my state that outlines all the non-academic supports kids on the spectrum may need added to their IEP: http://www.isbe.state.il.us/spec-ed/pdf ... e_08-1.pdf It is a really, really good starting place; I wish I'd known about it last year.

It was buried somewhere on the State Board of Education's website. Google "YOUR STATE board of education" and once there, use the search function for the word "autism." Whatever you find that pertains to you, bring it to the school - your teacher needs to be made aware that your child is legally protected under the Americans with Disabilities Act, and she can disagree all she wants but she is still required to accommodate his needs - your State's version of this document may help.

If you aren't in the US, try starting with the local chapter of the autism society.



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06 Oct 2011, 10:34 pm

Since your son has an ASD diagnosis, getting an IEP should be as simple as asking for one. But we all know how should goes ...

Definitely things like sensory breaks, permission to leave the class to self-mitigate or even use the restroom, can and should be in the IEP. More work-a-rounds are needed for the executive function issues, as well, such as posting of assignments to the internet so you, the parent, can help your child keep track. Programming into an academic support period or study hall can also be helpful, with that teacher checking the assignments and coordinating with the other teachers.

But, I am wondering, if there isn't more going on with your 14 year old. He may well have given up the grading rubric, and I wouldn't really blame him. School is at a point where organizational skills are prized over actual demonstration of learning, and the penalty for every missing assignment is deadly. It takes 10 perfect papers to make up for every zero on a lost or misplaced assignment. Kids get frustrated with that system really fast, because it has nothing to do with actually learning the material, and our smart Aspie kids know it. I was able to slowly sell my son on complying anyway, and we worked super hard to make sure he didn't get zeros, because those zeros were killing his spirit. With this situation going on as long as it has with your son ... I don't know if that can still be turned around.

In which, I think you should consider home school. When you home school, the grading rubric is of your own making. You do something that makes sense to him, that he is willing to try to succeed in. I know your husband doesn't like the idea, but it is miles better than failing.

Anyway, that is all I have time for now, and probably can't get back on in the next week. My is 14, too, btw.

PS - I tried to find your old name for you using the old moderator tools I still have but you aren't posting from the same ISP. If you know where that was and want to post from there, I could get you your old name.


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Mom to an amazing young adult AS son, plus an also amazing non-AS daughter. Most likely part of the "Broader Autism Phenotype" (some traits).


audball
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07 Oct 2011, 1:28 am

2Ex2, a lot of what you mentioned your son is going through sounds like working memory deficits. Many kids on the spectrum (my DD included) have executive function issues. A book that has been mentioned here before and worked well for us was "Smart but Scattered: The Revolutionary "Executive Skills" Approach to Helping Kids Reach Their Potential", by Peg Dawson and Richard Guare. It was full of good info for us and many of the techniques illustrated at easy to do and practice. Your son may find he feels a little more empowered with the school organization. Competence leads to confidence.

As for the teacher who causes your son stress, I'm not sure this instructor is ever going to be willing to listen to your son's needs. (And it really ticks me off, because if my child were physically disabled, I don't think a teacher would get away with dismissing the accommodations we ask for!) It seems as if this teacher's mind is made up and generally, these types of teachers are very difficult to work with and convince otherwise. With my DD, if she feels stressed enough, her anxiety takes over and she loses her ability to think clearly. It's almost as if she has "blacked out". The developmental nurse we work with said that the whole "Fight or Flight" syndrome takes over and impedes her ability to do things she is completely capable of without the stressor. It sounds like this teacher is a major contributor to that stress, which starts a vicious cycle. If you think the instructor may be willing to really work with your son, I do like the book "10 Things Every Child with Autism Wishes You Knew", by Ellen Notbohm. It was based on her one page article (so if this teacher really has trouble with books, he can read the short article :wink: ) and it just works as a primer for people who have little to no understanding of ASD.

I'll also add my $.02 and thumbs up for the homeschool idea. We finally decided to homeschool (through our state's online charter) and I reexamined my DD's IEP (she's 9, in 4th grade with HFA/Asperger's/ADHD diagnosis). Basically, almost every accommodation for her IEP is no longer a necessary accommodation. All her requirements for accommodations do not need to be met because frankly, the (stressful) environment she is in has disappeared! She used to have headphones for sensory issues, do half the amount of work the rest of the class was required to do due to attention issues, have modified PE because she couldn't keep up with class...all of that is a non-issue now. She's in a calm classroom of 1. She does *all* the work required in the core curriculum (and then some, because she's *interested* in learning again). And we hike through our local forested park for PE. She's capable of more interactions, demonstrates her knowledge with lots of proficiency, etc. It's been a good change. I know it's not something everyone can do, but if there's any possible way, it's worth a try...Good luck and please keep us posted!



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07 Oct 2011, 5:09 am

People with AS often have coordination issues. These may not be obvious to the outside observer but slow the person down just enough that they lag behind others when it comes to things like writing, getting their books back in their backpack and leaving a class room, or, getting their things out of their locker and getting to class.

And that might be why your son is late to class. If this is the case, he might not perceive that he is moving slowly but might feel that others move impossibly fast.

Perhaps he could get a more centrally located locker.



2Ex2
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07 Oct 2011, 7:53 am

It just so happens that I'm in Illinois too...thanks so much for the link!

My son said the teacher in question didn't give him a hard time today, so maybe my letter helped a little. Or not, who knows. :?

To get an IEP going, I need to write a letter, right? Then who do I send it to? What should it include? I don't have to have the specifics of what we want until the meeting, correct? Or should I include our requests in the initial letter?

Thanks again!



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07 Oct 2011, 8:38 am

Chronos wrote:
People with AS often have coordination issues. These may not be obvious to the outside observer but slow the person down just enough that they lag behind others when it comes to things like writing, getting their books back in their backpack and leaving a class room, or, getting their things out of their locker and getting to class.

And that might be why your son is late to class. If this is the case, he might not perceive that he is moving slowly but might feel that others move impossibly fast.

Perhaps he could get a more centrally located locker.


Chronos, this is incredibly useful. I know it, I experience it myself, but I've never had it put into perspective.

2Ex2 - OK, I can tell you what we did - IEP process went through the guidance counselor, but when we started to have trouble, we copied the principal and vice-principal. I would call the guidance counselor and ask what the process is at your particular school - they will (hopefully) set up what's called a "domain meeting" If she can't set one up, send your letter to the entire chain in the school: principal, vice-principal, homeroom or resource teacher, and guidance counselor or social worker.

Just found this article from Rush Northshore, which is a really good overview of the process and has the bonus of being in-state: http://www.rnbc.org/2009/10/understandi ... tep-guide/ Also sounds like they're a resource if you need one (we have had success with the PDC at Illinois Masonic and also get services from Have Dreams in Evanston/Skokie. An educated advocate isn't a bad thing.)



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07 Oct 2011, 8:46 am

DW....the day I went in and talked to his teachers and principals for his accommodations plan, I was armed with all kinds of information about why my son might not be doing his homework (lack of organizational skills, forgetfulness, not understanding what the assignment was, etc.). I made my case, then the guidance counselor announced that he had come in the day before and informed her that he was apathetic towards homework because it was a waste of time and he simply wasn't going to do it. I sure wish he would have let me know about his little speech before I marched in there, thinking I knew what was going on. Thankfully, she and the social worker realized that his attitude toward homework can be part of Asperger's and honestly, I was the same way in high school. I never did any homework, but grading systems were different then.

I would love to homeschool, but I'm not sure I could keep up with him and I'm not sure I'd be good at it. He's way ahead of me...and he spends hours studying the things he wants to online and he orders textbooks. He knows how to write code and create programs. He does a lot of 3D rendering. He's always bringing home broken game systems and fixes them. Sometimes kids just give him their broken stuff...and he fixes it and then gets to keep it. I told him I thought he was a genius, and he said, no, he just knows where to find the information on how to fix stuff and follows the directions. My husband has always said homeschooling is out of the question. I'm probably on the spectrum too. I've never been tested, but I was diagnosed with ADD, primarily inattentive type around 20 years ago as an adult. My eighth grade teacher told my mom I needed to be held back a year or two because emotionally and socially I was way behind my peers although I was performing at college level. I didn't finish college because of severe anxiety. What I'm trying to say is that I am too disorganized myself...I'm not sure I could keep track of things properly if I was to homeschool. Is it complicated to homeschool?

Audball, my oldest daughter actually recommended that book (Smart but Scattered) to me at the beginning of the summer. She bought it and said when she finished reading it, she would bring it to me. Haven't seen it yet. :) I will have to remind her or else just get my own copyl I'll get the other one too.

I wish I had listened last year and got an IEP in place then. With college coming up (he's a sophomore this year), I'm afraid his GPA isn't going to help him much. He just got back his ACT Discovery test and scored 100%. It is also a career finder and suggested that he look into becoming a physician, diagnostician or several other medical fields. He said he just wants to work on computer software, which is fine with me. But, then he said, he doesn't need a high GPA for that, and why push himself if he can get into the field he wants by doing the bare minimum?

DW, I have a new hard drive on my computer. I don't know if that would make a difference or not with my ip address.



audball
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07 Oct 2011, 11:35 am

2Ex2, I'm thinking that maybe you need a "two-pronged" approach to your son's education: Dealing with his true future (as he will live it) and his "education" future.

First, he sounds incredibly gifted and talented, but maybe he hasn't been able to channel that in a way he, or even others around him, see as valuable. Since he's older, maybe having a real discussion about his likes/dislikes will help you both carve out a future learning path for him. "Traditional" school may not be the best way for him to be educated for his future endeavors. If he does want to go into computer software, investigate further what he thinks that entails and what expectations he has about his future lifestyle. I think there is sometimes a disconnect with Aspie kids in what they want to do and what kind of surroundings they wish to have.

For example, my DD (who is only 9 :? ), loves animals and says that's all she wants to do - take care of animals. Now usually this could mean that she work at a zoo, or as a vet assistant or even a volunteer at a bird sanctuary. However, she also said she wants an "aviary" :wink: when she grows up. Well, you won't be able to create an aviary on a volunteer salary! So I have used this to push that she needs to do math (a subject she is less than fond of) to do well in school, to get into a good graduate program, to have a job that earns enough money. If she really wants a specific type of future, there are things she will have to do that are less pleasurable in the short term to be able to make gains in the long term. As a kid on the spectrum, she only sees things here and now. I'm trying to use some of that concrete/logical thinking to motivate her pushing through those more trying experiences.

So if your son wishes to fix things all day, he could conceivably work as a technician (nothing wrong with that) at a shop, but if he wants to be his own boss, have a successful business, or be the next Steve Jobs, he'll need to show some planning and learn to do those things he doesn't like for his long term goal. You could express that improving organizational skills (although it sounds like he's trying) and doing homework is part of that - it demonstrates being willing to come to school/work prepared and meeting a teacher half-way. If he really balks at homework (not unusual, as my DD, too sees that all schoolwork should be done at school), maybe you can work with a teacher or staff for him to do a longer-term project focused on the subject matter. Maybe instead of a typed report, your son could do an oral report with a demonstration and slides showing how he fixed something.

Cutting to the chase - my DH graduated from a top-notch engineering school (both undergrad and graduate work). He works in a field where there are many engineers. Many of them are geniuses, but you know what is interesting? Many of the people who are the managers of these geniuses graduated from third tier, post-high school technical colleges. These managers have learned to work well with people and know how to position themselves for promotions. Sometimes "knowing everything" is not always the key to success, in the way our kids may define it (being satisfied with your job; earning enough money to do as you wish; not having a boss hanging around over you). It's "unfair" (as my DD has said) and sobering, but it's the reality of the job market today.

His "education future" is a little bit more difficult to plan, mainly because you have to work within the parameters of a system that isn't very sympathetic to our kids and their learning styles. I would say, if you can, just do an internet search on IEPs (how to create them, what standard ones look like, etc.) and see what you can tailor it specifically for him. It should contain accommodations for work (maybe if he can demonstrate knowledge of the subject being taught he only do half the problems for homework, for example), for sensitivities (if he requires quiet for projects, maybe allowing him ear plugs during "work time"), and for testing (if writing is difficult, maybe a keyboard for essay questions). Even the homework could probably be addressed since it's true - in some ways homework is supposed to be a demonstration of what you learned in school. If he has already "learned it", repeating it does seem like a waste of time. Hopefully, you can find some help with the guidance counselor and social worker. Is there a SPED team member that you can spend some time with? Talk to him/her about your son's issues and see how they can outline some accommodations.

Sorry I'm blathering :oops: I take a lot of interest in school issues with older children because mine will be there someday.

Interesting that your husband is not in favor of homeschooling. May I ask why? We came to it because it was our only choice. The curriculum comes to us (it's non-denominational and very science oriented). I like that it holds the kids responsible beginning in 4th grade - kids log into their account and see their work on the screen every day. Miss something and it's the kid's fault! I like the accountability...



zette
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07 Oct 2011, 12:09 pm

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I would love to homeschool, but I'm not sure I could keep up with him and I'm not sure I'd be good at it. He's way ahead of me...and he spends hours studying the things he wants to online and he orders textbooks.


Sounds like he'd be great at homeschooling -- especially if you let him help investigate and pick the curriculum. There are online classes and video lectures out there so you don't have to do any of the teaching, just monitor his progress and hold him accountable to do the lessons.

What are your husband's objections?



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07 Oct 2011, 1:00 pm

2Ex2 wrote:
DW....the day I went in and talked to his teachers and principals for his accommodations plan, I was armed with all kinds of information about why my son might not be doing his homework (lack of organizational skills, forgetfulness, not understanding what the assignment was, etc.). I made my case, then the guidance counselor announced that he had come in the day before and informed her that he was apathetic towards homework because it was a waste of time and he simply wasn't going to do it. I sure wish he would have let me know about his little speech before I marched in there, thinking I knew what was going on. Thankfully, she and the social worker realized that his attitude toward homework can be part of Asperger's and honestly, I was the same way in high school. I never did any homework, but grading systems were different then.


In many instances, homework can be a waste of time. If he has any aspirations of going to a university from high school, then homework is not a waste of time because he has to maintain his GPA.

If he goes to community college first instead, then high school homework isn't as important but most people have to at least know algebra and statistics to transfer to a university later, and he will inevitably have to do homework for a class he finds uninteresting or irrelevant to everything but a degree even in college because all colleges require some type of general education breadth, even colleges that are strictly science and engineering.

Of course he can do programming without a degree but if that's what he wants to do then he needs some baseline level of social skills.



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07 Oct 2011, 1:39 pm

My husband initially was against homeschooling because he thought that my son needed to be around other children. He had always preferred to be around adults or much older children. The main reason my husband is against it, though, is because I am a disorganized mess. I have five children, three of which are still at home. I don't work anymore, but I have to make all their meals from scratch because they are either celiac or gluten sensitive. Two of us are dairy-free because of allergies. I can't afford ready-made or convenience meals, so everything is made entirely from scratch. I spend most of my day cooking, cleaning,packing lunches,emailing or calling back and forth with teachers, running things to school that were left at home or running to school or bus garage to find their lost lunchbags, jackets, books, glasses, etc., gardening, planning meals, helping with homework after school or grocery shopping. My husband is afraid that I just do not have the time to keep up with homeschooling, although it would eliminate a lot of the running back and forth to the school. :wink: