The process of constructing a unified Theory of Mind

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Mdyar
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12 Oct 2011, 3:42 pm

btbnnyr wrote:
Wouldn't this developing of a "personal ToM" to understand other people be problematic if oneself is autistic and most others are not?


see ruveyn



ialdabaoth
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12 Oct 2011, 5:19 pm

Examining my own (current) ToM more carefully, I think it breaks down the most often in reverse - I'm very good at ascribing mental states to others that lead to correct predictions of their actions, but I seem very, very poor at broadcasting details of my own mental state that others choose to interpret in a charitable fashion. If that makes any sense?



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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12 Oct 2011, 5:30 pm

I would like to see things more separate. Theory of mind would, ideally, be the theory that everyone has their own mind and that these minds are capable of being very different from one another, are in transient states, and may sometimes resemble each other strongly. Empathy I would like to see totally unconnected to theory of mind. Empathy, ideally, is the ability to grasp someone's emotional state and hasn't much to do with the realization that everyone has their own mind. Empathy has more to do with intuition while theory of mind can be read about and understood logically.
That way it would be less confusing, imo.



btbnnyr
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12 Oct 2011, 6:16 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
I would like to see things more separate. Theory of mind would, ideally, be the theory that everyone has their own mind and that these minds are capable of being very different from one another, are in transient states, and may sometimes resemble each other strongly. Empathy I would like to see totally unconnected to theory of mind. Empathy, ideally, is the ability to grasp someone's emotional state and hasn't much to do with the realization that everyone has their own mind. Empathy has more to do with intuition while theory of mind can be read about and understood logically.
That way it would be less confusing, imo.


Yes, I would also say that each person has his or her own ToM, and some of these ToMs are similar to each other, and each person has to simulate others using his or her own ToM, and communication problems arise when an autistic person and a neurotypical person, with very different ToMs, try to simulate each other using own ToM instead of other ToM. The same hit, or miss, can also occur between any two people with very different ToMs.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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12 Oct 2011, 6:27 pm

btbnnyr wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
I would like to see things more separate. Theory of mind would, ideally, be the theory that everyone has their own mind and that these minds are capable of being very different from one another, are in transient states, and may sometimes resemble each other strongly. Empathy I would like to see totally unconnected to theory of mind. Empathy, ideally, is the ability to grasp someone's emotional state and hasn't much to do with the realization that everyone has their own mind. Empathy has more to do with intuition while theory of mind can be read about and understood logically.
That way it would be less confusing, imo.


Yes, I would also say that each person has his or her own ToM, and some of these ToMs are similar to each other, and each person has to simulate others using his or her own ToM, and communication problems arise when an autistic person and a neurotypical person, with very different ToMs, try to simulate each other using own ToM instead of other ToM. The same hit, or miss, can also occur between any two people with very different ToMs.

Well said :)



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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12 Oct 2011, 6:37 pm

I just disagree with convolving something that is so simple and straightforward to begin with.