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DevGSL
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11 Oct 2011, 10:59 pm

Is it possible to understand figurative speech if you have mild Aspergers -- through whatever means necessary (like, you've been taught the meaning)?

Like, depending on context, I can understand certain figurative phrases - which might just be because I've learned what most of them mean - but I'm always curious about how or why they're used that way.

Example: Just earlier, I heard the phrase, "Guess I won't look a gift horse in the mouth," which is one I don't hear that often. I used my logic to figure out, since the person who said it had just received something rare, that it probably means he won't complain about not receiving "more" of the rare item. I googled it just because I was curious of the origin of the phrase and stuff like that...

So, does anybody else have a fairly decent understanding of how figurative speech is used, but perhaps not why? Have any good stories?



Dots
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11 Oct 2011, 11:07 pm

I used to obsessively research what figurative speech meant. For example, "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth" - looking a horse in the mouth is inspecting it for something wrong, and the saying is telling you not to look for something wrong with what you've received. Or at least, that's how I understand it.

I know what a lot of figures of speech mean, but the understanding isn't always immediately there. If someone uses one, I have to think about it for a minute.

I don't think I'm as visual a thinker as Temple Grandin, but she did mention once about how when someone uses a figure of speech, like "raining cats and dogs", she'll get a literal image of that in her head. That happens with figures of speech for me. I get an immediate literal picture in my head, not of what it means, but of what it says. Like an actual image of cats and dogs falling from the sky.

I think that's why I don't have an immediate understanding of the figure of speech. I have to get around the literal image in my head first.


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Verdandi
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11 Oct 2011, 11:15 pm

Dots wrote:
as visual a thinker as Temple Grandin, but she did mention once about how when someone uses a figure of speech, like "raining cats and dogs", she'll get a literal image of that in her head. That happens with figures of speech for me. I get an immediate literal picture in my head, not of what it means, but of what it says. Like an actual image of cats and dogs falling from the sky.

I think that's why I don't have an immediate understanding of the figure of speech. I have to get around the literal image in my head first.


I do this too, and it takes me a moment. I do know what a lot of figures of speech mean, however, because you pick them up over time.



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12 Oct 2011, 12:06 am

I have a hard time with figures of speech. Sometimes I can easily figure out what it means just by how it's used but other times I can recognize the person didn't really mean it but I have a hard time understanding what they meant. I have a idiom book I got when I was 18 and used to carry it with me. There were so many of them, I couldn't remember them all.

I can learn what they mean though. Sometimes I have a hard time grasping it. Even the way they are used can confuse me and even though I may know what the phrase means, I don't understand it because of the way it got used. I am the same way with words.



ialdabaoth
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12 Oct 2011, 12:29 am

I can generally figure out quite well what a figure of speech means, and the particular nuances and "dog whistles" associated with any given figure of speech, once I realize that what someone just said is a figure of speech.

In fact, this has got me in trouble just as often as not realizing that something is a figure of speech - for example, phrases like "urban youth" and "street crime" and "inner city violence" are effectively "figures of speech" for me, which leads to... difficulty when I understand what people are really talking about and still disagree with them.



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12 Oct 2011, 5:32 am

The gift horse ... my grandmother told me long ago what it means. Horse's teeth wear out and are getting shorter, the older the horse is. An old nag has only stub in his mouth. But since you don't need to pay for it, it doesn't matter.
She (my grandma) said, if you can get anything for free, take it, even if it's cheap junk.

However, it took me a while and some explanations to understand the meaning of "Why buy a cow when you can get the milk for free" or someone "Not being the brightest bulb on the Christmas tree." The latter still makes me imagine the person hanging there on the tree.

Basically i understand it much better when it is written.



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12 Oct 2011, 5:36 am

I know when to use figurative speech and recognise it when used, but I rarely stop to think what it means. Knowing when it is applicable does not require knowledge of the origins.



Mummy_of_Peanut
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12 Oct 2011, 8:34 am

I use the literal meaning to figure it out. I produce a sort of image of it and that helps to make sense of it.

But, I remember being told to put some elbow grease into it, when I was cleaning the white board at school. I thought the teacher meant I had to use more of the cleaning spray and that was it's weird name. I still don't get the connection between that phrase and effort (unless I had a metal arm and it was needing to be oiled - is that what's meant by it?).

Recently, my mum said that a man had taken a funny turn (a term used here to mean they felt unwell, can mean anything from unsteadiness to a stroke). I thought about it and realised that my daughter would not understand this at all and explained it to her.


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jackbus01
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12 Oct 2011, 9:16 am

nemorosa wrote:
I know when to use figurative speech and recognise it when used, but I rarely stop to think what it means. Knowing when it is applicable does not require knowledge of the origins.


Yes, true but it can sometimes be interesting to know where these figures of speech come from.



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12 Oct 2011, 11:40 am

Mummy_of_Peanut wrote:
I use the literal meaning to figure it out. I produce a sort of image of it and that helps to make sense of it.

But, I remember being told to put some elbow grease into it, when I was cleaning the white board at school. I thought the teacher meant I had to use more of the cleaning spray and that was it's weird name. I still don't get the connection between that phrase and effort (unless I had a metal arm and it was needing to be oiled - is that what's meant by it?).

Recently, my mum said that a man had taken a funny turn (a term used here to mean they felt unwell, can mean anything from unsteadiness to a stroke). I thought about it and realised that my daughter would not understand this at all and explained it to her.


Ah, the old elbow grease... I think that one's ret*d. All it means is that you're supposed to put more effort into the job you're doing. Push harder, use your muscles. That one never really made sense to me, so I never use it, but that's what they mean.



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12 Oct 2011, 2:50 pm

Understanding these types of phrases isn't really a problem for me, but for my 9-year-old daughter (who I suspect might be on the spectrum) it definitely is. In fact, most NT's don't know what the origins of these phrases are either, or why they are used - sometimes a historian could tell them, some of the original meanings have been lost. I think the difference that I observe with my daughter compared to other kids her age is:

1. She doesn't always spot when one of these types of phrases has been used; if she hasn't heard it before she just thinks you have said something rather strange and takes it literally

2. Whether she recognises the phrase or not, she has a need to argue with you if it doesn't make sense to her, whereas most kids would just accept what it means in common usage e.g. she knows "you're getting on like a house on fire" means "you're getting on well" but feels the need to explain to me that that simply doesn't make any sense as a house being on fire is a bad thing and therefore the phrase is silly



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12 Oct 2011, 2:55 pm

I've never heard "You're getting on like a house on fire" before, but I agree with your daughter. It doesn't make sense and is just silly. A house on fire is not good at all. I'm a lot older than 9 and I would probably argue about it, too. :P


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12 Oct 2011, 4:13 pm

They haven often confused me when first learning them, but since I was highly literate at a young age, I haven't heard many new ones lately.

Even after learning them, I do sometimes become confused about why a particular figure of speech was used in a particular context and what it means in that context, and if it is consistent with the original formulation of that figure of speech. I find a lot of people use such language without thinking or understanding it.



LittleBlackCat
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12 Oct 2011, 5:15 pm

Although I don't have a problem with figurative speech as I have learnt most common expressions by my age and can usually pick up that if someone says something really bizarre they probably don't mean it literally, I do sometimes have problems with being a bit pedantic and not picking up what is actually meant by things. For example, someone recently told me in a message to "keep in touch with my discovery" and I spent ages trying to decide whether to message them back or not. I just didn't know whether they meant "keep in touch with them about my discovery" or "keep in touch with the discovery itself" (i.e. keep researching and thinking about things), the latter having an air of finality about it. I decided to reply in the end, but I'm still not sure if they wanted me to or not.



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12 Oct 2011, 7:14 pm

LittleBlackCat wrote:
Although I don't have a problem with figurative speech as I have learnt most common expressions by my age and can usually pick up that if someone says something really bizarre they probably don't mean it literally, I do sometimes have problems with being a bit pedantic and not picking up what is actually meant by things. For example, someone recently told me in a message to "keep in touch with my discovery" and I spent ages trying to decide whether to message them back or not. I just didn't know whether they meant "keep in touch with them about my discovery" or "keep in touch with the discovery itself" (i.e. keep researching and thinking about things), the latter having an air of finality about it. I decided to reply in the end, but I'm still not sure if they wanted me to or not.


That would confuse me, too. In this case, a comma would make all the difference: "keep in touch, with [your] discovery" would indicate to me a request to keep in touch with the sender of the message and provide details of your discovery. Otherwise, I would tend to assume it was advice along the lines of the latter of your two stated possibilities.