Stop Bashing Autism Speaks!
07 Jan 2012, 11:02 pm
vermontsavant wrote:
the asan most certainly could do more for non verbal individuals,and neurodiversity in general.they most certainly could hire more non aspergian autistics.autism speaks can end there silly research and start puting people first.its pride,ego and self centeredeness on both sides pure and simple.its the mid functioning that is hurt the most
In one of these threads that ASAN issue was discussed, with someone that is involved with the ASAN organization.
Of course, ASAN hires no one directly, it's entirely a volunteer organization with a few small chapters throughout the US. And a few other international chapters around the globe.
Their explanation was that they can only provide job announcements from companies that approach them with those opportunities. They say they are looking into an effort for others without college education, still waiting, but it doesn't mean they won't come through at some point in time with those opportunities.
They also explained that their main focus was on disability rights,
KenG is the President of the ASAN organization in Israel.
The organization as a whole has some really nice people in it. He is certainly representative of the potential within the organization, shown in his dedication to advocacy efforts.
The organization raises little to no funds, so there isn't really much they can do for any autistics in the way of direct aid, except for their small chapters that offer morale support for some autistic individuals; and the disability rights, that their leader has made an impact in, on the national level.
The key point though on that organization, is that it is comprised entirely of Autistic Individuals, all of which are volunteers. If they accomplish any objective good, it is all to their merit, just for being involved.
There really hasn't been that much of a focus in the US, on anything but Juvenile Autism. Studies have been presented here by others that provide evidence for that.
As another poster just mentioned though, that identified focus is growing up and moving into the adult population; perceived needs are what change charitable organizations missions and goals, however those needs can't be met until they are measured and identified.
Those needs are coming better into focus, the research that Autism Speaks is now engaging in is objective evidence of it. They are now moving into an area of focus that hasn't been pursued in the past.
The world is becoming a more self-centered place in general, particularly in the US; there is even scientific research that evidences it. No one has a firm handle on why, or what, if anything can be done about that.
That's an issue that affects everyone everywhere in every organization. For those that volunteer in organizations like ASAN and Autism Speaks, whatever they accomplish that helps anyone is a credit to society, I think.
08 Jan 2012, 2:03 am
I have been watching Autism Speaks for a while longer. They did push the 1 in 110 were hopeless cases. They also denied there were autistic adults.
They have edited their message in light of the poop slinging they got.
More recently, while you were here, threads about Has Autism Speaks changed anything but their press releases?
That came about in the recent time when they did bring in John Elder Robison, then Alex, and Holman.
I have been pointing out for years that they had no idea what they were doing, were going in the wrong direction, and without any baseline of what adult autistics become, a wonderful people, they were running expermental treatments on children.
According to recent press releases, through their great Science, they have discovered adults!
ASAN is just out for The Disability Rights money. Someone has to take the Government Funding, and that is what they focus on.
Autism Speaks has been in denial about adults, until their doners children started growing up, and had to come to Wrong Planet to get some direction in where autistics wind up.
Now they suddenly see a new field for Marketing, where older people know their history. They did not help the children, they are not welcome.
The Markram's article has much better stuff to steal.
There have been a lot of lets make a buck off of autism organizations, Most of them failed to deliver anything, and faded away. Autism Speaks spent all the money, now donations are drying up, because they did not produce anything.
Like the Markrams said, the old defective and disordered model is falling away. Autism Speaks invested in the Mental ret*d and Defective, and even in that they were not a player, like Baron Cohen.
They are a discredited play science charity, that now wants a do over.
The Markrams are broadly supported by the autistic community, have a Social rather than a fake medical, or political view, Their science is sound, and they offer the best hope for effective treatments. ABA with or without Adversives would shock them, so would drugs for control. Their view is not only can autistic children grow up better, even mistreated adults can recover.
They point out that thse who study the symptoms of a disability, will find nothing else, even if they can find no evidence. They will continue seeking defects, and exclude all other answers.
"Autistics are just wrong, and need to be cured or extirminated." Autism Speaks.
Now that they have failed at Eugenics, they want our help?
A new press release by the same old rat. For $50 million a year, they will keep writing Press Releases.
Truth is no one but us could define autism. Only Psychology tries, but they were wrong about everything before. The Markrams did call the DSM their bible, so I am not the only one who sees them as a religion, The Church of the Perfect Human.
MIT did try to copy the autistic presence at the Patent Office, and failed totally. It can not be taught. It can be developed by those who have it, it being varied for us.
The Markrams see autism as an over evolution of the brain, which sometimes naturally produces savants, and could produce a lot more if the children were raised as what they are, not tried to be made into something vaugely defined, normal.
Autism Speaks sells fear, where parents should embrace the oppertunity. Victorian England raised some children in the attic till they were seven, and they turned out well. We may be slower to develop, but when we do it is worth it. These are the same years that Autism Speaks and Psychology want to use constant conditioning. Tell the child everything they do is wrong, and make them obey the leash.
Autism Speaks, et al, does not even know what we are speaking about.
To them, Autism is the same as Terrorism, it gives the right to take their lives without trial, lock them up, and torture them forever.
Autism Speaks is destroying a generation we depend on for the technology of 2020. That has been the main path of autistic adults for many generations.
The Markrams see this, and seek to develop the gift.
08 Jan 2012, 3:50 pm
Inventor wrote:
I have been watching Autism Speaks for a while longer. They did push the 1 in 110 were hopeless cases. They also denied there were autistic adults.
They have edited their message in light of the poop slinging they got.
More recently, while you were here, threads about Has Autism Speaks changed anything but their press releases?
That came about in the recent time when they did bring in John Elder Robison, then Alex, and Holman.
I have been pointing out for years that they had no idea what they were doing, were going in the wrong direction, and without any baseline of what adult autistics become, a wonderful people, they were running expermental treatments on children.
According to recent press releases, through their great Science, they have discovered adults!
ASAN is just out for The Disability Rights money. Someone has to take the Government Funding, and that is what they focus on.
Autism Speaks has been in denial about adults, until their doners children started growing up, and had to come to Wrong Planet to get some direction in where autistics wind up.
Now they suddenly see a new field for Marketing, where older people know their history. They did not help the children, they are not welcome.
The Markram's article has much better stuff to steal.
There have been a lot of lets make a buck off of autism organizations, Most of them failed to deliver anything, and faded away. Autism Speaks spent all the money, now donations are drying up, because they did not produce anything.
Like the Markrams said, the old defective and disordered model is falling away. Autism Speaks invested in the Mental ret*d and Defective, and even in that they were not a player, like Baron Cohen.
They are a discredited play science charity, that now wants a do over.
The Markrams are broadly supported by the autistic community, have a Social rather than a fake medical, or political view, Their science is sound, and they offer the best hope for effective treatments. ABA with or without Adversives would shock them, so would drugs for control. Their view is not only can autistic children grow up better, even mistreated adults can recover.
They point out that thse who study the symptoms of a disability, will find nothing else, even if they can find no evidence. They will continue seeking defects, and exclude all other answers.
"Autistics are just wrong, and need to be cured or extirminated." Autism Speaks.
Now that they have failed at Eugenics, they want our help?
A new press release by the same old rat. For $50 million a year, they will keep writing Press Releases.
Truth is no one but us could define autism. Only Psychology tries, but they were wrong about everything before. The Markrams did call the DSM their bible, so I am not the only one who sees them as a religion, The Church of the Perfect Human.
MIT did try to copy the autistic presence at the Patent Office, and failed totally. It can not be taught. It can be developed by those who have it, it being varied for us.
The Markrams see autism as an over evolution of the brain, which sometimes naturally produces savants, and could produce a lot more if the children were raised as what they are, not tried to be made into something vaugely defined, normal.
Autism Speaks sells fear, where parents should embrace the oppertunity. Victorian England raised some children in the attic till they were seven, and they turned out well. We may be slower to develop, but when we do it is worth it. These are the same years that Autism Speaks and Psychology want to use constant conditioning. Tell the child everything they do is wrong, and make them obey the leash.
Autism Speaks, et al, does not even know what we are speaking about.
To them, Autism is the same as Terrorism, it gives the right to take their lives without trial, lock them up, and torture them forever.
Autism Speaks is destroying a generation we depend on for the technology of 2020. That has been the main path of autistic adults for many generations.
The Markrams see this, and seek to develop the gift.
They have edited their message in light of the poop slinging they got.
More recently, while you were here, threads about Has Autism Speaks changed anything but their press releases?
That came about in the recent time when they did bring in John Elder Robison, then Alex, and Holman.
I have been pointing out for years that they had no idea what they were doing, were going in the wrong direction, and without any baseline of what adult autistics become, a wonderful people, they were running expermental treatments on children.
According to recent press releases, through their great Science, they have discovered adults!
ASAN is just out for The Disability Rights money. Someone has to take the Government Funding, and that is what they focus on.
Autism Speaks has been in denial about adults, until their doners children started growing up, and had to come to Wrong Planet to get some direction in where autistics wind up.
Now they suddenly see a new field for Marketing, where older people know their history. They did not help the children, they are not welcome.
The Markram's article has much better stuff to steal.
There have been a lot of lets make a buck off of autism organizations, Most of them failed to deliver anything, and faded away. Autism Speaks spent all the money, now donations are drying up, because they did not produce anything.
Like the Markrams said, the old defective and disordered model is falling away. Autism Speaks invested in the Mental ret*d and Defective, and even in that they were not a player, like Baron Cohen.
They are a discredited play science charity, that now wants a do over.
The Markrams are broadly supported by the autistic community, have a Social rather than a fake medical, or political view, Their science is sound, and they offer the best hope for effective treatments. ABA with or without Adversives would shock them, so would drugs for control. Their view is not only can autistic children grow up better, even mistreated adults can recover.
They point out that thse who study the symptoms of a disability, will find nothing else, even if they can find no evidence. They will continue seeking defects, and exclude all other answers.
"Autistics are just wrong, and need to be cured or extirminated." Autism Speaks.
Now that they have failed at Eugenics, they want our help?
A new press release by the same old rat. For $50 million a year, they will keep writing Press Releases.
Truth is no one but us could define autism. Only Psychology tries, but they were wrong about everything before. The Markrams did call the DSM their bible, so I am not the only one who sees them as a religion, The Church of the Perfect Human.
MIT did try to copy the autistic presence at the Patent Office, and failed totally. It can not be taught. It can be developed by those who have it, it being varied for us.
The Markrams see autism as an over evolution of the brain, which sometimes naturally produces savants, and could produce a lot more if the children were raised as what they are, not tried to be made into something vaugely defined, normal.
Autism Speaks sells fear, where parents should embrace the oppertunity. Victorian England raised some children in the attic till they were seven, and they turned out well. We may be slower to develop, but when we do it is worth it. These are the same years that Autism Speaks and Psychology want to use constant conditioning. Tell the child everything they do is wrong, and make them obey the leash.
Autism Speaks, et al, does not even know what we are speaking about.
To them, Autism is the same as Terrorism, it gives the right to take their lives without trial, lock them up, and torture them forever.
Autism Speaks is destroying a generation we depend on for the technology of 2020. That has been the main path of autistic adults for many generations.
The Markrams see this, and seek to develop the gift.
The Markram's seek the same basic goal as autism speaks, to modify the symptoms of what can be a devastating neurological disorder for some, through biomedical/environmental research, potentially allowing autistic individuals the best opportunity to fulfill their potential in life.
Whether or not you meant it or not, the record here shows that you have been supporting what autism speaks has been doing for years. You were the first one here, that I can see that wasn't afraid to speak your mind, on the subject.
You reversed many of your viewpoints here after Tambourineman did the interview, have no idea why, that's your business, but at least here, it's part of the record that can't be erased.
Autism Speaks has focused on the 1 in 110, there is no doubt about that; you are the only one in this thread referring to them at this point as hopeless, mental ret*d, or defective.
Autism Speaks sticks to the available facts, and have never suggested that all of those children will live in an institution, and has never referred to those children as hopeless, mental ret*d, or defective.
Their goal is to provide hope for those children and families of those children, in reducing their pain/struggles/difficulties/isolation associated with autism. They attacked the problems associated with autism, not the child.
Not all have perceived it as it was intended. That's understandable.
Nor, have they or any other organization ever suggested that there were no adult autistics. They provided information on all 5 spectrum disorders on their website, since the inception of the organization.
They didn't focus their research on autistic adults, have focused on juvenile autism as have most other organizations however they never suggested that autistic adults don't exist.
Autism Speaks is at the forefront now, suggesting that environment factors may have an equal impact on autism, not unlike the Markram's research, through the recent research autism speaks supported, on twin studies and autism.
The Markrams suggest that environmental toxins during pregnancy and after pregnancy triggers autism. Their solution is modifiying the extreme world environment, continued genetic research, research into environmental toxins/factors associated and appropriate treatment, including medication.
The Markram's description of autism is no less one of a potentially devastating disorder, than autism speaks description, from the actual abstract of their theory, per link and quote below.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2518049/
Quote:
Autism is a devastating neurodevelopmental disorder with a polygenetic predisposition that seems to be triggered by multiple environmental factors during embryonic and/or early postnatal life.
Their theory supports the medical and the social model of disability, in that they believe that the disorder can be modified to become a "beneficial one" through bio-medical research and that the overstimulation from the environment should be modified as well, to allow the autistic individual to reach their fullest potential.
The Markram's theory, currently, is based on VPA studies done on rats, not unlike research autism speaks has supported with other environmental impacts and rats.
Mouse models make sense; mice share many of the same genetic markers associated with autism as humans, and they do show associated autistic like traits, under certain conditions, including exposure to VPA, Pthalates, and other environmental toxins.
The intense world theory does a much better job of describing the pain that an autistic can feel in life, than any theory I have seen to date. I think it deserves further research and attention.
Autism Speaks provided funding for a neuroscience conference in which the Intense World Theory was presented by Markram.
The national alliance of autism research (NAAR) that autism speaks merged with has supported Markram's research in the past, in Israel, there is the potential that autism speaks may be involved in future funding for Markram's research, if the organization they currently work for is awarded a grant for such research, in the future by autism speaks.
Since I have been here the thing of significance that has been suggested in these threads to autism speaks that they are currently accomplishing is for research to be done on the real prevalence of autistic adults, superceding the current governmental effort.
I've already stated that several times and provided evidence that they are now funding that research.
I have no idea if those suggestions made a difference, it doesn't even matter, all that matters is that they are doing what needs to be done.
That is the significant thing I can see that has changed since Autism Speaks has been discussed here on this website, since the inception of the organziation.
The partnership with World Planet, in my opinion is probably a more signficant action, than public relations responses:
Basically, taking a couple of videos off their website, answering questions appropriately when questions are asked, and modifying portrayal of autism in their marketing efforts..
In the past you have respected the research that autism speaks does, openly stated you supported the organization, and have put children, with the more disabling aspects, as you referred to in the past as LFA, in the forefront in your discussions, with parents coming in second, and HFA coming in third.
You have a right to change your mind, but the record of your opinions in the past, at least on this website, do not reflect the statement you just made, quoted below. You have evidenced the efforts of the organization as valuable throughout whole threads, not unlike, what I am doing here, if anything, in a more forceful way than I, since, you started posting here.
Quote:
I have been pointing out for years that they had no idea what they were doing, were going in the wrong direction, and without any baseline of what adult autistics become, a wonderful people, they were running expermental treatments on children.
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt123582.html
Quote:
Our problems do not come from a lack of political and legal rights, they come from Autism.
I am with Claradoon, who is older than me, and wants the social skills training that is now being given to three year olds.
It works, an Autism Speaks funded project, and we never got it just living.
"The Guidebook to Earth for Autistics," is being written, and I want a copy.
Why? Because as a HFA, I find there is a lot about Autism that I do hate.
If the children of the future can be helped through a difficult childhood, often lasting till they retire, and then some, it will be a better world.
For those who think they are being demonized by propaganda, a few weeks in the LFA locked ward will change your mind.
The effect of all study is moving the line between those who will spend thier lives in assisted living, and those who can live in the world.
You are protesting the best chance that one in 1,000 have of not spending life in a Group Home.
You are protesting the best chance that those who live in the world will live better.
These are the children of the future, childlike adults, and there is are moral, ethical, legal, reasons to give them the best care we can in this imperfect world.
The protesters are few, offer no program, only demands to be seen as perfect as is, and demand more support.
I do not think I am perfect, and what limited means we have should be put to use with the children where it will do the most good.
Adult autistics do not even come in second, that place should be for the parents of autistic children.
With limited funds, limited knowledge, we must put our efforts where it will do the most good for the most people.
These are the early days of autism awareness, it will take a generation, and we must continue to develop the Future of Autism.
Life can be better for millions.
I am with Claradoon, who is older than me, and wants the social skills training that is now being given to three year olds.
It works, an Autism Speaks funded project, and we never got it just living.
"The Guidebook to Earth for Autistics," is being written, and I want a copy.
Why? Because as a HFA, I find there is a lot about Autism that I do hate.
If the children of the future can be helped through a difficult childhood, often lasting till they retire, and then some, it will be a better world.
For those who think they are being demonized by propaganda, a few weeks in the LFA locked ward will change your mind.
The effect of all study is moving the line between those who will spend thier lives in assisted living, and those who can live in the world.
You are protesting the best chance that one in 1,000 have of not spending life in a Group Home.
You are protesting the best chance that those who live in the world will live better.
These are the children of the future, childlike adults, and there is are moral, ethical, legal, reasons to give them the best care we can in this imperfect world.
The protesters are few, offer no program, only demands to be seen as perfect as is, and demand more support.
I do not think I am perfect, and what limited means we have should be put to use with the children where it will do the most good.
Adult autistics do not even come in second, that place should be for the parents of autistic children.
With limited funds, limited knowledge, we must put our efforts where it will do the most good for the most people.
These are the early days of autism awareness, it will take a generation, and we must continue to develop the Future of Autism.
Life can be better for millions.
Last edited by aghogday on 09 Jan 2012, 12:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
08 Jan 2012, 11:50 pm
To put that in context, it was a reply to ASAN, about five years ago when they were calling for attacking the Awareness Walks, and spilling the blood of grandmothers.
Also at that time I had some hope for research. I do take a wait and see view.
Research did not pan out, ABA, now without Adversives, is the only plan.
The Guidebook for Autistics was penned by the Markrams, and I have followed their work.
ASAN is wrong even compared to Autism Speaks, but using one to block the other is using a lesser evil.
I supported Tangerine_Man, he can write, but disagreed with his politics when he started posting Autism Speaks Propaganda.
There are several people who showed up recently to take over, they all spout the Autism Speaks line, Marketing, not the support of scientific research that I supported. Tamborine_Man has stopped, I thought the Markram's Article great, said the same of his Fortune Article.
We know Autism Speaks well, as the Markrams said, we have long and highly detailed memories. We also know Marketing, Propaganda, when we see it.
As I said, Autism Speaks does not even know what we are speaking of, what our opinions are, what "I Have a Dream," means. They are just out to Spam Wrong Planet, use Marketing to alter public opinion, and that does not work with those who have a Differance of Thought and perception, for they see it as Marketing Lies.
The Markrams again, one of our defenses is being more perceptive, and judging on known facts rather than political speech.
Five years ago was another world. I welcomed John Robison joining Autism Speaks, I thought Alex would become a serious film maker, and working a subject he knows well, I did not care where the money came from, because I think Alex will do as he pleases.
I was calling for a study of adult outcomes as a needed baseline before using life altering treatments on children. Producing better adults is the only purpose.
I was polite, supported them when no other would, trying to point out the potential good that could come of it.
I defended the Legal Claims against them, citing Trademark Law, and what is required, and investigated the claims, and found they were without merit.
Where there was potential good, or no harm done or intended, I defended them.
That was five years ago, and intil recently. I was leaving an open door for civil and reasonable contact.
It does not mean I thought they were right, I politely disagreed with many things. Marketing videos that might play well with potential doners, did not here.
I saw Cure and Extirminate as things that would forever alienate them from the autistic community. They have.
From what I have heard, John Robison was doing the same from the inside.
Five years later ASAN is back, the political wing of Autism Speaks, it took a lot of clout to get Ari appointed, since he is not qualified for anything.
Autism Speaks Spambots appear, calling for us all to go to their web site, and speaking in glowing terms of our ASAN Leaders. Tamborine_Man claimed they were his friends, and they were just trying to help us.
So it took five years to get a response, and it comes from Marketing?
Autism Speaks has failed in its mission, Nothing has been developed and shared with the autistic community. An autistic child today is worse off than twenty years ago.
No one has ever studied the views of autistic adults, so they have no idea what those children will grow up like, yet think they should make expermental changes. In Science and Medicine, they rank with Chelation, Vaccines, and Faith Healing.
Since they consider themselves perfect, any differance of thought and perception is seen as a defect, to be cured. They may have hired a few, but they are not ready to deal with us as equal humans, and accept that some of our differance has come in useful. In places we exceed the norm, and in a technological civilzation, it only takes one to bring the future for all.
The Markrams understand this, and suggest economic compensation to parents of slower developing autistics, low pressure but sense rich nurturing, and aiding the child in gaining control of their mind. This is the opposite of ABA, and Conditioning the child to be Normal. That is not accepting us for what we are.
Selling parents fear to deny the Human Rights of a child may be legal, but I have also written about the Curse of Cursive, forcing me to do something I could not. I was punished for being me, and other adults report the same. Drugs and ABA are just the latest punishment.
Since the main supporters of Autism Speaks are Drug Companies, Psychology, they will never change.
Five years and a half billion dollars later they are here because they failed.
I have been warning them of their reputation in the community for five years, yet here they are trying to sell something we do not want, are sure is wrong, and using neurotypical networking to sell it.
We have been studing them for years, now they want to study us? All it would have taken is an open mind. The lack of perception in our range of thought is obvious.
They are like a small child lying about how the cookie jar wound up broken on the floor. What if I get my little brother to say the same thing?
09 Jan 2012, 12:01 am
Inventor wrote:
Autism Speaks has failed in its mission, Nothing has been developed and shared with the autistic community. An autistic child today is worse off than twenty years ago.
No one has ever studied the views of autistic adults, so they have no idea what those children will grow up like, yet think they should make expermental changes. In Science and Medicine, they rank with Chelation, Vaccines, and Faith Healing.
Since they consider themselves perfect, any differance of thought and perception is seen as a defect, to be cured. They may have hired a few, but they are not ready to deal with us as equal humans, and accept that some of our differance has come in useful. In places we exceed the norm, and in a technological civilzation, it only takes one to bring the future for all.
The Markrams understand this, and suggest economic compensation to parents of slower developing autistics, low pressure but sense rich nurturing, and aiding the child in gaining control of their mind. This is the opposite of ABA, and Conditioning the child to be Normal. That is not accepting us for what we are. If you haven't read this interview yet, then go right now to the WP front page and read it. It is our future.
Selling parents fear to deny the Human Rights of a child may be legal, but I have also written about the Curse of Cursive, forcing me to do something I could not. I was punished for being me, and other adults report the same. Drugs and ABA are just the latest punishment.
Since the main supporters of Autism Speaks are Drug Companies, Psychology, they will never change.
Five years and a half billion dollars later they are here because they failed.
I have been warning them of their reputation in the community for five years, yet here they are trying to sell something we do not want, are sure is wrong, and using neurotypical networking to sell it.
We have been studing them for years, now they want to study us? All it would have taken is an open mind. The lack of perception in our range of thought is obvious.
They are like a small child lying about how the cookie jar wound up broken on the floor. What if I get my little brother to say the same thing?
No one has ever studied the views of autistic adults, so they have no idea what those children will grow up like, yet think they should make expermental changes. In Science and Medicine, they rank with Chelation, Vaccines, and Faith Healing.
Since they consider themselves perfect, any differance of thought and perception is seen as a defect, to be cured. They may have hired a few, but they are not ready to deal with us as equal humans, and accept that some of our differance has come in useful. In places we exceed the norm, and in a technological civilzation, it only takes one to bring the future for all.
The Markrams understand this, and suggest economic compensation to parents of slower developing autistics, low pressure but sense rich nurturing, and aiding the child in gaining control of their mind. This is the opposite of ABA, and Conditioning the child to be Normal. That is not accepting us for what we are. If you haven't read this interview yet, then go right now to the WP front page and read it. It is our future.
Selling parents fear to deny the Human Rights of a child may be legal, but I have also written about the Curse of Cursive, forcing me to do something I could not. I was punished for being me, and other adults report the same. Drugs and ABA are just the latest punishment.
Since the main supporters of Autism Speaks are Drug Companies, Psychology, they will never change.
Five years and a half billion dollars later they are here because they failed.
I have been warning them of their reputation in the community for five years, yet here they are trying to sell something we do not want, are sure is wrong, and using neurotypical networking to sell it.
We have been studing them for years, now they want to study us? All it would have taken is an open mind. The lack of perception in our range of thought is obvious.
They are like a small child lying about how the cookie jar wound up broken on the floor. What if I get my little brother to say the same thing?
Well, that about sums it all up. Nice one.
Now, speaking of Tambourine man, his Interview: Henry and Kamila Markram about The Intense World Theory for Autism hits the mark! These are some people doing real research and trying to find real answers. Intense World Theory totally blows Autistism Speaks, Simon Baron-Cohen, and others totally out of the water, because it is based on FACT, not NT perceptions of things.
So now I'm done wasting my words on Autism Speaks, because they don't really matter…
Ciao
_________________
?No great art has ever been made without the artist having known danger? ~ Rainer Maria Rilke
Last edited by ictus75 on 15 Jan 2012, 9:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
09 Jan 2012, 2:11 am
Inventor wrote:
To put that in context, it was a reply to ASAN, about five years ago when they were calling for attacking the Awareness Walks, and spilling the blood of grandmothers.
Also at that time I had some hope for research. I do take a wait and see view.
Research did not pan out, ABA, now without Adversives, is the only plan.
The Guidebook for Autistics was penned by the Markrams, and I have followed their work.
ASAN is wrong even compared to Autism Speaks, but using one to block the other is using a lesser evil.
I supported Tangerine_Man, he can write, but disagreed with his politics when he started posting Autism Speaks Propaganda.
There are several people who showed up recently to take over, they all spout the Autism Speaks line, Marketing, not the support of scientific research that I supported. Tamborine_Man has stopped, I thought the Markram's Article great, said the same of his Fortune Article.
We know Autism Speaks well, as the Markrams said, we have long and highly detailed memories. We also know Marketing, Propaganda, when we see it.
As I said, Autism Speaks does not even know what we are speaking of, what our opinions are, what "I Have a Dream," means. They are just out to Spam Wrong Planet, use Marketing to alter public opinion, and that does not work with those who have a Differance of Thought and perception, for they see it as Marketing Lies.
The Markrams again, one of our defenses is being more perceptive, and judging on known facts rather than political speech.
Five years ago was another world. I welcomed John Robison joining Autism Speaks, I thought Alex would become a serious film maker, and working a subject he knows well, I did not care where the money came from, because I think Alex will do as he pleases.
I was calling for a study of adult outcomes as a needed baseline before using life altering treatments on children. Producing better adults is the only purpose.
I was polite, supported them when no other would, trying to point out the potential good that could come of it.
I defended the Legal Claims against them, citing Trademark Law, and what is required, and investigated the claims, and found they were without merit.
Where there was potential good, or no harm done or intended, I defended them.
That was five years ago, and intil recently. I was leaving an open door for civil and reasonable contact.
It does not mean I thought they were right, I politely disagreed with many things. Marketing videos that might play well with potential doners, did not here.
I saw Cure and Extirminate as things that would forever alienate them from the autistic community. They have.
From what I have heard, John Robison was doing the same from the inside.
Five years later ASAN is back, the political wing of Autism Speaks, it took a lot of clout to get Ari appointed, since he is not qualified for anything.
Autism Speaks Spambots appear, calling for us all to go to their web site, and speaking in glowing terms of our ASAN Leaders. Tamborine_Man claimed they were his friends, and they were just trying to help us.
So it took five years to get a response, and it comes from Marketing?
Autism Speaks has failed in its mission, Nothing has been developed and shared with the autistic community. An autistic child today is worse off than twenty years ago.
No one has ever studied the views of autistic adults, so they have no idea what those children will grow up like, yet think they should make expermental changes. In Science and Medicine, they rank with Chelation, Vaccines, and Faith Healing.
Since they consider themselves perfect, any differance of thought and perception is seen as a defect, to be cured. They may have hired a few, but they are not ready to deal with us as equal humans, and accept that some of our differance has come in useful. In places we exceed the norm, and in a technological civilzation, it only takes one to bring the future for all.
The Markrams understand this, and suggest economic compensation to parents of slower developing autistics, low pressure but sense rich nurturing, and aiding the child in gaining control of their mind. This is the opposite of ABA, and Conditioning the child to be Normal. That is not accepting us for what we are.
Selling parents fear to deny the Human Rights of a child may be legal, but I have also written about the Curse of Cursive, forcing me to do something I could not. I was punished for being me, and other adults report the same. Drugs and ABA are just the latest punishment.
Since the main supporters of Autism Speaks are Drug Companies, Psychology, they will never change.
Five years and a half billion dollars later they are here because they failed.
I have been warning them of their reputation in the community for five years, yet here they are trying to sell something we do not want, are sure is wrong, and using neurotypical networking to sell it.
We have been studing them for years, now they want to study us? All it would have taken is an open mind. The lack of perception in our range of thought is obvious.
They are like a small child lying about how the cookie jar wound up broken on the floor. What if I get my little brother to say the same thing?
Also at that time I had some hope for research. I do take a wait and see view.
Research did not pan out, ABA, now without Adversives, is the only plan.
The Guidebook for Autistics was penned by the Markrams, and I have followed their work.
ASAN is wrong even compared to Autism Speaks, but using one to block the other is using a lesser evil.
I supported Tangerine_Man, he can write, but disagreed with his politics when he started posting Autism Speaks Propaganda.
There are several people who showed up recently to take over, they all spout the Autism Speaks line, Marketing, not the support of scientific research that I supported. Tamborine_Man has stopped, I thought the Markram's Article great, said the same of his Fortune Article.
We know Autism Speaks well, as the Markrams said, we have long and highly detailed memories. We also know Marketing, Propaganda, when we see it.
As I said, Autism Speaks does not even know what we are speaking of, what our opinions are, what "I Have a Dream," means. They are just out to Spam Wrong Planet, use Marketing to alter public opinion, and that does not work with those who have a Differance of Thought and perception, for they see it as Marketing Lies.
The Markrams again, one of our defenses is being more perceptive, and judging on known facts rather than political speech.
Five years ago was another world. I welcomed John Robison joining Autism Speaks, I thought Alex would become a serious film maker, and working a subject he knows well, I did not care where the money came from, because I think Alex will do as he pleases.
I was calling for a study of adult outcomes as a needed baseline before using life altering treatments on children. Producing better adults is the only purpose.
I was polite, supported them when no other would, trying to point out the potential good that could come of it.
I defended the Legal Claims against them, citing Trademark Law, and what is required, and investigated the claims, and found they were without merit.
Where there was potential good, or no harm done or intended, I defended them.
That was five years ago, and intil recently. I was leaving an open door for civil and reasonable contact.
It does not mean I thought they were right, I politely disagreed with many things. Marketing videos that might play well with potential doners, did not here.
I saw Cure and Extirminate as things that would forever alienate them from the autistic community. They have.
From what I have heard, John Robison was doing the same from the inside.
Five years later ASAN is back, the political wing of Autism Speaks, it took a lot of clout to get Ari appointed, since he is not qualified for anything.
Autism Speaks Spambots appear, calling for us all to go to their web site, and speaking in glowing terms of our ASAN Leaders. Tamborine_Man claimed they were his friends, and they were just trying to help us.
So it took five years to get a response, and it comes from Marketing?
Autism Speaks has failed in its mission, Nothing has been developed and shared with the autistic community. An autistic child today is worse off than twenty years ago.
No one has ever studied the views of autistic adults, so they have no idea what those children will grow up like, yet think they should make expermental changes. In Science and Medicine, they rank with Chelation, Vaccines, and Faith Healing.
Since they consider themselves perfect, any differance of thought and perception is seen as a defect, to be cured. They may have hired a few, but they are not ready to deal with us as equal humans, and accept that some of our differance has come in useful. In places we exceed the norm, and in a technological civilzation, it only takes one to bring the future for all.
The Markrams understand this, and suggest economic compensation to parents of slower developing autistics, low pressure but sense rich nurturing, and aiding the child in gaining control of their mind. This is the opposite of ABA, and Conditioning the child to be Normal. That is not accepting us for what we are.
Selling parents fear to deny the Human Rights of a child may be legal, but I have also written about the Curse of Cursive, forcing me to do something I could not. I was punished for being me, and other adults report the same. Drugs and ABA are just the latest punishment.
Since the main supporters of Autism Speaks are Drug Companies, Psychology, they will never change.
Five years and a half billion dollars later they are here because they failed.
I have been warning them of their reputation in the community for five years, yet here they are trying to sell something we do not want, are sure is wrong, and using neurotypical networking to sell it.
We have been studing them for years, now they want to study us? All it would have taken is an open mind. The lack of perception in our range of thought is obvious.
They are like a small child lying about how the cookie jar wound up broken on the floor. What if I get my little brother to say the same thing?
Not that it is of any real consequence but the records here are correct, it wasn't about five years ago, it was a response made April 11, 2010, per the link I provided of your quote. There are other records here where you directly stated you supported the organization as recently as August of 2011.
I haven't reported many facts here now, that are significantly different from the facts you have reported in the past. If you are suggesting I am spreading propaganda, I suggest you provide counter evidence to refute any facts or resources I have presented.
While I don't support the Autism Speaks organization directly, I do support the beneficial efforts the organization and it's volunteers provide for autistic individuals.
Their latest research iniatives, do have the potential to make autistic individuals lives better through better methods of identification, awareness, understanding of the prevalence of autism, and avenues for support for adult autistics in their communities.
Quote:
I support Autism Speaks. They are non autistic, professional fund raisers, their target market is non autistic parents, and their focus is on autistic children
.http://www.wrongplanet.net/postx168459-225-0.html
The reason I point it out is what you said 5 years ago, is not something I would consider reasonable, as a recent change in opinion, representative of it, nor would I suggest it is.
Your support for autism speaks research has been a consistent opinion for approximately 4 years, as the record shows. I understand you haven't agreed with merits of everything the organization has done, nor have I. That is also in the record.
I agree that the modern environment is too extreme for some autistics, that has been one of my opinions as to why life is so much harder for some autistic inviduals today than it was in the past, when there wasn't as much stimulus in life.
However, in their interview the Markram's make it clear they are pursuing epigenetic alterations to change what they describe in their theory as a devastating neurological disorder into a "beneficial one". Per the interview and the link to their actual research theory that I provided in the last post.
The potential of epigenetic alterations, means the removal or manipulation of toxic environmental agents in the prenatal or postnatal development to alter the symptoms of the disorder.
They intend through further research to identify which set of genes are predisposing to autism during pregnancy to lower the threshold of epigenetic insult during pregnancy, which is identification of autism on a prenatal basis through genetics for intervention during pregnancy through nutrition.
I personally don't have a problem with that, but prenatal identification of autism has been the biggest fear that many people in the autistic community have expressed about autism research ever since genetic research began. It's good the Markram's can word it in a way, where it doesn't appear to offend most people.
Isolating and eliminating environmental agents/toxins as what they refer to as potentially insulting to the human genome is one thing, but manipulating those environmental agents to guide the evolution of the brain, sounds like an experiment on a child that I can't see happening any time soon, at least not in the US.
They are suggesting autism can be treated by nutrients and drugs; that could be true if new effective drugs are developed, or specific nutritional deficiencies can be identified, but so far, no existing drugs or specific nutritional supplements have been shown to be effective in treating autism.
I believe in the value of scientific research. I don't question the value of the research they propose, except for the manipulation of the evolution of the brain through agents that insult the human genome; that sounds a bit far fetched to me, at least from what they state in the interview.
To date, some have dismissed drug therapy, nutritional therapy, genetic research, and prenatal testing, as part of the cure ideology; it does not represent the social model of disability, and it's been a topic of complaint every time the word autism speaks is mentioned.
Modifying the environment does represent the social model of disability, but entire schools will have to be environmentally modified to fully accommodate those that have problems with overstimulation. Any approximation of it will likely be helpful to some.
Quoted from the interview:
Quote:
For research, we will isolate various agents that can induce epigenetic insult of the genome and may even learn how to use these agents to guide evolution of the human brain. We will learn which sets of genes are predisposing – lower the threshold of epigenetic insult during pregnancy - so that we can be better informed on nutrition during pregnancy and get ready to raise an autistic child if necessary. We will learn how to gently guide the development of the brain of an autistic child through the critical irreversible periods and avoid traumatic moments that could spin the brain development into a nightmare configuration and preserve the hyperfunctional microcircuits allowing autists to cope with the intensity and pain and express their genious. Nutrients, drugs and other treatments such as brain stimulation, will emerge that can dampen down selectively some uncontrolled hyperfunctional components.
09 Jan 2012, 4:22 am
ictus75 wrote:
Intense Mind Theory totally blows Autistism Speaks, Simon Baron-Cohen, and others totally out of the water, because it is based on FACT, not NT perceptions of things.
So now I'm done wasting my words on Autism Speaks, because they don't really matter…
Ciao
So now I'm done wasting my words on Autism Speaks, because they don't really matter…
Ciao
Just for clarification, while I think, from my own anecdotal experience as an autistic individual, the Markram's are pretty close to the mark, this theory is not based on human studies, so far.
Their theory is currently based on a study of rats exposed to the VPA chemical in anti-convulsants, and medication for bi-polar disorder, as an environmental trigger for autism.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2518049/
Quote:
Autism is a devastating neurodevelopmental disorder with a polygenetic predisposition that seems to be triggered by multiple environmental factors during embryonic and/or early postnatal life. While significant advances have been made in identifying the neuronal structures and cells affected, a unifying theory that could explain the manifold autistic symptoms has still not emerged. Based on recent synaptic, cellular, molecular, microcircuit, and behavioral results obtained with the valproic acid (VPA) rat model of autism, we propose here a unifying hypothesis where the core pathology of the autistic brain is hyper-reactivity and hyper-plasticity of local neuronal circuits
As with all of the other current theories on autism, it has got a long way to go before it is evidenced in human beings.
Since this study, other rat studies have suggested that other toxins are associated with autism, including BPA and Pthalates, which are suggested to interrupt the endocrine system leading to potential changes in prenatal brain development, creating autistic like traits in rats/mice
The journey from identifying these toxic environmental associations in rats with autistic behavior, indeed close replicas of human genetics vital to research, and actually altering these toxins in the prenatal and postnatal environment of human beings is a journey that no research scientist has a clue on how to make at this point in time.
It's a start but there is a long journey ahead for results that impact human beings.
And there will be research worldwide required to reach that destination.
It is the research scientists such as the Markrams that make the findings and theories happen, but the research doesn't happen without funding from some governmental organization, charitable organization, university, or other source of funding.
The name autism speaks is of little importance in these efforts, there are hundreds of other sources that work together to provide funding for autism research worldwide, however the funding that organizations like autism speaks provide, make this kind of research possible.
The charitable autism research organization (NAAR) that has merged with autism speaks, has already, in part, funded research for Markram in Israel, in his effort to reach a unified theory of autism, along with other organizations.
http://www.autismspeaks.org/site-wide/henry-markram
Quote:
Henry Markram, Ph.D.
Weizmann Institute of Science, Rehovot, Israel
"Altered Inhibitory Microcircuits in Autism."
Two-Year Award: $96,800
Research Partner: Nancy Lurie Marks Family Foundation
Weizmann Institute of Science, Rehovot, Israel
"Altered Inhibitory Microcircuits in Autism."
Two-Year Award: $96,800
Research Partner: Nancy Lurie Marks Family Foundation
Autism Speaks awards grants for research to third party research scientists like Henry Markram.
Autism Speaks employees neither do the research or develop the theories. And as I mentioned before, as Inventor has as well, some of those research scientists are likely part of the Broader Autism Phenotype.
09 Jan 2012, 8:13 am
has anyone heard the latest controversy in the scientific community.stephen hawking says the "stop bashing autism speaks"post on wrong plant existed before the big bang happened.the theological community disagrees,the pope has stated god created the "stop bashing autism speaks thread" first and then said:"let there be light".archeoligists and theologians are working together to desypher the earliest pages of this thread in aramaic,found in a cave in syria
_________________
Forever gone
Sorry I ever joined
09 Jan 2012, 2:49 pm
vermontsavant wrote:
has anyone heard the latest controversy in the scientific community.stephen hawking says the "stop bashing autism speaks"post on wrong plant existed before the big bang happened.the theological community disagrees,the pope has stated god created the "stop bashing autism speaks thread" first and then said:"let there be light".archeoligists and theologians are working together to desypher the earliest pages of this thread in aramaic,found in a cave in syria
In all seriousness, I think they are all wrong. The current autism/genetics/paleoanthropology, thread came before all other threads, currently here, on controversial topics/theories, as far as I know.
09 Jan 2012, 3:30 pm
aghogday wrote:
vermontsavant wrote:
has anyone heard the latest controversy in the scientific community.stephen hawking says the "stop bashing autism speaks"post on wrong plant existed before the big bang happened.the theological community disagrees,the pope has stated god created the "stop bashing autism speaks thread" first and then said:"let there be light".archeoligists and theologians are working together to desypher the earliest pages of this thread in aramaic,found in a cave in syria
In all seriousness, I think they are all wrong. The current autism/genetics/paleoanthropology, thread came before all other threads, currently here, on controversial topics/theories, as far as I know.
_________________
Forever gone
Sorry I ever joined
09 Jan 2012, 3:39 pm
vermontsavant wrote:
aghogday wrote:
vermontsavant wrote:
has anyone heard the latest controversy in the scientific community.stephen hawking says the "stop bashing autism speaks"post on wrong plant existed before the big bang happened.the theological community disagrees,the pope has stated god created the "stop bashing autism speaks thread" first and then said:"let there be light".archeoligists and theologians are working together to desypher the earliest pages of this thread in aramaic,found in a cave in syria
In all seriousness, I think they are all wrong. The current autism/genetics/paleoanthropology, thread came before all other threads, currently here, on controversial topics/theories, as far as I know.
Your welcome, that was a pleasant break from dichotomy.
10 Jan 2012, 4:50 am
vermontsavant wrote:
has anyone heard the latest controversy in the scientific community.stephen hawking says the "stop bashing autism speaks"post on wrong plant existed before the big bang happened.the theological community disagrees,the pope has stated god created the "stop bashing autism speaks thread" first and then said:"let there be light".archeoligists and theologians are working together to desypher the earliest pages of this thread in aramaic,found in a cave in syria
This thread starts in Sumarin Cuniform. It has just been continued here.
That was 5,000 years before Creation, and I do not believe in the Big Bang either. That thread died when Non-Banger evidence was overwhelming.
I did not support Autism Speaks before ASAN showed up five years ago.
When they returned as a team, I quit, and found the other side of the story needed work. I was not always a No Banger, I defended both sides, and other options, before coming to what I could support.
I talk to myself, a lot.
Details of that can be found on a thread with MidnightSun, where we discussed the many forms of mind, as expressed by the Caduces, two snakes entwined on a staff. More correctly, the snakes speak, I am the staff. Snakes never agree, so I have to chose, after careful reflection.
I am siding with the other snake now.
One, as said, I was the only voice of defense for five years. " I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
I was defending my own Principals.
I did leave the door open for them to defend themselves, but they thought we were the enemy or something. At least on the Trade Mark I expected an Attorney to clarify their obligations and innocent intent. It never happened.
When Alex was attacked for collecting illegal information on minors coming to the site, I wrote a strong defense, posted on wrongplanet, discussion, and it was moved whole to Kid's Crater. Alex fully complied with the law regarding children, and with the law regarding those who should be tracked down by the Police.
Tangerine_Man was an employee, throwing softballs in the strike zone, to a prepared reply. Several others showed up with the Company Line, So as long as they can deny it, they are trying to defend, and badly.
Fine, I can now go back to regular programing, While ideas can have merit, "Autism has a Cause", I personally always blamed it on the three Atomic Bombs exploded while I was in the womb.
It seems that view cannot be supported for those born later, or the chemical madness we now live in for early causes. The one I cannot disprove, a Virus.
Nothing else has been consistant over time. We also do not have a great track record with Virus. Polio was a hit, it is possible. Infantile Paralasis is a close model. Autism was called Infantile Schzophreania.
It fits everyone else's model, but is never mentioned? Polio also had a range, from mild to fatal.
More likely to occure in siblings, who have infected parents, but some are just carriers. All Genetic Haplogroups, are succeptable to some disorders, and immune to others.
I dropped the sugar cube as a small child, but I think Polio also ran in families.
Autism Speaks was involved in the, "Vaccines cause Autism," fight, another lost cause, but missed that one could eradicate it?
While I am rabid anti cure for those who exist, but life could be better, a Vaccine that gave everyone a mild form of Autism would be great. It would save those disabled, and reduce the endless chatter of neurotypicals.
"A touch of autism is needed, for success in the arts and sciences," Hans Asperger.
This is a hard sell in a Disability Market. But I agree with the Markrams, some modification of the human mind is in order. Perhaps through the study of autism we could learn to make a Guild Navigator.
Fact, human brains are mostly getting smaller, only African Americans are bucking the trend. Autistics have big heads. Our own culture, growing food, has cause this worldwide problem. We have regressed to our ancestors of 40,000 years ago, in the last 12,000 years.
Another fact, the spread of autism matches the spread of STDs. Universities and Silicon Valley are Hot Beds of Fornicaters! Multiable sexual partners now drives the market for king size beds! Microserfs are known for not having sex outside the company, and for autistic offspring. Tech and Higher Education keep it in the Company.
Pattern recognition.
I agree with the Markrams about the treatment of existing autistics, and about Mentats and Navigators, I read all the Dune books too. but disagree about cause.
I do not take sides, I may defend one for a while, but I am my own side.
Inventors think of a thousand things, good inventors think of why they will not work. Only the ideas that I cannot prove will not work are worth the time and effort to make work.
I am not alone in my thinking, most good inventors have written the same. It is how we process an overload of thought, and direct it to the most likely. I did a study on invention before I heard of Asperger's, mapped their traits, and guess what! Mass idea formation followed by attacking the ideas, then narrow and demonic focus, persistance, dedication, is the basic skill.
There could be several virus, outcomes do vary, innoculated everyone with non disabling Asperger's, lots of problems solved.
There could be a Mentat Virus. Computers can recall, process, but Think? For that we will always need people.
Brains are shrinking, yet overall IQ is creeping upward. We are producing more very high IQ people, which also fits with Virus.
The Markrams will at least broadly consider the future of the species.
Autism Replies TM, Is the voice from the other side.
10 Jan 2012, 6:21 pm
Inventor wrote:
vermontsavant wrote:
has anyone heard the latest controversy in the scientific community.stephen hawking says the "stop bashing autism speaks"post on wrong plant existed before the big bang happened.the theological community disagrees,the pope has stated god created the "stop bashing autism speaks thread" first and then said:"let there be light".archeoligists and theologians are working together to desypher the earliest pages of this thread in aramaic,found in a cave in syria
This thread starts in Sumarin Cuniform. It has just been continued here.
That was 5,000 years before Creation, and I do not believe in the Big Bang either. That thread died when Non-Banger evidence was overwhelming.
I did not support Autism Speaks before ASAN showed up five years ago.
When they returned as a team, I quit, and found the other side of the story needed work. I was not always a No Banger, I defended both sides, and other options, before coming to what I could support.
I talk to myself, a lot.
Details of that can be found on a thread with MidnightSun, where we discussed the many forms of mind, as expressed by the Caduces, two snakes entwined on a staff. More correctly, the snakes speak, I am the staff. Snakes never agree, so I have to chose, after careful reflection.
I am siding with the other snake now.
One, as said, I was the only voice of defense for five years. " I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
I was defending my own Principals.
I did leave the door open for them to defend themselves, but they thought we were the enemy or something. At least on the Trade Mark I expected an Attorney to clarify their obligations and innocent intent. It never happened.
When Alex was attacked for collecting illegal information on minors coming to the site, I wrote a strong defense, posted on wrongplanet, discussion, and it was moved whole to Kid's Crater. Alex fully complied with the law regarding children, and with the law regarding those who should be tracked down by the Police.
Tangerine_Man was an employee, throwing softballs in the strike zone, to a prepared reply. Several others showed up with the Company Line, So as long as they can deny it, they are trying to defend, and badly.
Fine, I can now go back to regular programing, While ideas can have merit, "Autism has a Cause", I personally always blamed it on the three Atomic Bombs exploded while I was in the womb.
It seems that view cannot be supported for those born later, or the chemical madness we now live in for early causes. The one I cannot disprove, a Virus.
Nothing else has been consistant over time. We also do not have a great track record with Virus. Polio was a hit, it is possible. Infantile Paralasis is a close model. Autism was called Infantile Schzophreania.
It fits everyone else's model, but is never mentioned? Polio also had a range, from mild to fatal.
More likely to occure in siblings, who have infected parents, but some are just carriers. All Genetic Haplogroups, are succeptable to some disorders, and immune to others.
I dropped the sugar cube as a small child, but I think Polio also ran in families.
Autism Speaks was involved in the, "Vaccines cause Autism," fight, another lost cause, but missed that one could eradicate it?
While I am rabid anti cure for those who exist, but life could be better, a Vaccine that gave everyone a mild form of Autism would be great. It would save those disabled, and reduce the endless chatter of neurotypicals.
"A touch of autism is needed, for success in the arts and sciences," Hans Asperger.
This is a hard sell in a Disability Market. But I agree with the Markrams, some modification of the human mind is in order. Perhaps through the study of autism we could learn to make a Guild Navigator.
Fact, human brains are mostly getting smaller, only African Americans are bucking the trend. Autistics have big heads. Our own culture, growing food, has cause this worldwide problem. We have regressed to our ancestors of 40,000 years ago, in the last 12,000 years.
Another fact, the spread of autism matches the spread of STDs. Universities and Silicon Valley are Hot Beds of Fornicaters! Multiable sexual partners now drives the market for king size beds! Microserfs are known for not having sex outside the company, and for autistic offspring. Tech and Higher Education keep it in the Company.
Pattern recognition.
I agree with the Markrams about the treatment of existing autistics, and about Mentats and Navigators, I read all the Dune books too. but disagree about cause.
I do not take sides, I may defend one for a while, but I am my own side.
Inventors think of a thousand things, good inventors think of why they will not work. Only the ideas that I cannot prove will not work are worth the time and effort to make work.
I am not alone in my thinking, most good inventors have written the same. It is how we process an overload of thought, and direct it to the most likely. I did a study on invention before I heard of Asperger's, mapped their traits, and guess what! Mass idea formation followed by attacking the ideas, then narrow and demonic focus, persistance, dedication, is the basic skill.
There could be several virus, outcomes do vary, innoculated everyone with non disabling Asperger's, lots of problems solved.
There could be a Mentat Virus. Computers can recall, process, but Think? For that we will always need people.
Brains are shrinking, yet overall IQ is creeping upward. We are producing more very high IQ people, which also fits with Virus.
The Markrams will at least broadly consider the future of the species.
Autism Replies TM, Is the voice from the other side.
Autism Speaks is the fluff. They bring in the money to fund the scientists. It's the research science that counts.
I support the effort of folks like the Markram's. They have the potential to find answers. They are the wizards funded by organizations like autism speaks, not unlike the guy behind the curtain, in the Wizard of OZ.
Some of the research that autism speaks is currently funding, is the same type of mouse studies, that the research organization they merged with funded for the Markram's in the past, that led to the Markram's current "Intense World Theory of autism".
Autism Speaks may be a voice in front of a curtain, but behind that curtain are an army of research scientists, not unlike the Markram's.
A Unified theory of Autism, would not be possible without those organizations that fund the research behind it. One does need to support or even think about Autism Speaks, however when one bashes the organization, one in ultimate effect, is bashing the potential good that those like the Markram's can do for Autistics; their efforts exist because of that type of funding.
Fortunately that Bashing is likely of net positive benefit to funding that research, rather than negative impact, because it is raising awareness that Autism Speaks exists across the web. Autism Speaks Website presents the research they fund in objective terms, anyone can go there see it, and judge for themselves, whether or not it has merit.
I've often heard Autism Speaks belittled because they fund Rat/mouse models of autism, this is evidence that not all autistic people fit the stereotype of science oriented folks, and some do not concern themselves much with the details of that science.
That's not the autism I experience, I like to understand those details, and I likely don't always do a good job of explaining them, but I make a stab at it.
The Markram's research illustrates just how vital autism research is. Their research makes that point much more clear, because people can personally relate to their theory. Behind that theory though is research, research scientists, rats in a laboratory, and organizations that fund that research, of which in this case the autism speaks organization is associated with.
That's good if the autistic community can get behind the theory, because it provides evidence and an opportunity to understand why rat/mouse models and autism research is vital. That has little to do with autism speaks, other than the fact that they fund that type of research along with hundreds of other sources.
I couldn't hope to defend the Autism Speaks organization, even if I wanted to, in this case; it would be like trying to oppose the fact that someone hates the New York Jets, or the First Baptist Church; however I can easily defend the fact that some Autistic people stand to benefit from research, just like some of the football fans and religious fans, stand to benefit from religion and the sport of football.
Scientific research supports all three of those hypotheses, but scientific research is not available to influence or change the opinion on whether or not they choose to hate, love, or are neutral about a particular organization, whether it is Autism Speaks, the New York Jets, or the First Baptist Church in my town. Many of those opinions are highly influenced by emotion.
The unfortunate result is when a person thinks that the element behind the organization, on an objective basis, like autism research, football, or religion is all bad, when they have limited knowledge of the benefits of these elements.
I think Autism research, football, and religion, all can be beneficial for some, there is science behind that opinion that hasn't been refuted, however on an emotional basis, I have no concern over the organizational names "autism speaks", the "first baptist church", or the "New York Giants".
In all three cases some love the organizations, some hate the organizations, and some are neutral. Life experiences cement those opinions for some. I fall in to the neutral zone in all three cases.
There is a myth that autistic people are somehow immune from emotional decisions in life, I suggest that these online forums shatter that myth.
However, in real life, it may not be as clear.
This whole phenomenon is my special interest, the Autism Speaks controversy, I believe, is a sociological microcosm that shatters some myths and stereotypes about autistic people.
By the way, if you will, please excuse my continued pedantry, but just for clarification of the record, actually autism speaks did officially defend their obligation to protect their trademark, and their innocent intentions in providing the cease and desist letter, about 3 years ago, in a public statement, regarding the NTspeaks incident.
It has been presented here many times in the same link that has yet to correct the T-shirt controversy. I guess you may have missed it, if you would like to read it, I can find the link for you.
And in the interview to autism speaks, those questions were not chosen by autism speaks they were chosen in part by some of the folks on the AFF website. That's still in the record. Nor, did Tambourine Man receive any compensation from Autism Speaks until he started blogging for the Autism Speaks site, well after the interview, which is also in the record.
And finally regarding research, there is a fascinating individual that goes by the user name "sophist" who is an actual autistic person that does autism research, that provided some of the best insight, into the current state of autism science, that I have come across.
I appreciate your opposing view, it provides the opportunity to learn new facts whether or not you find them for me, or I find them, in response to your opinions.
In the interview responses to the Intense World Theory, I think you sincerely, may find some of "Sophists" comments interesting. I'm fairly sure you appreciate autism research, in general, regardless of your opinion on the organization "Autism Speaks".
14 Jan 2012, 1:00 am
I haven't had time to read the whole of this thread, but it seems to me that Autism Speaks is treading a difficult path and it can't avoid bad press. In trying to do something good they have to do something bad. The problem is that there's no way to ensure the good bits of autism without getting the bad bits as well. Autism Speaks could pour a lot of money into helping those with autism cope with their condition. That in itself would be admirable, but I can't blame them for trying to cure a condition which makes life very tough for a lot of people. I have often wished I didn't have asperger's and could just be normal like everybody else because, regardless of the severity of the condition, emotionally it hurts. Don't get me wrong, there are some things about Autism Speaks I don't like, but I don't think there are any easy answers either.
14 Jan 2012, 2:08 am
It's amazing what can be learned through research. A study released a few days ago on the effects of internet addiction in adolescents suggests it results in changes in white matter fibers connecting brain regions involving impairment of emotional generation and processing, executive attention, decision making, and cognitive control; and additionally, impairments in social interaction are also involved.
http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0030253
Quote:
In conclusion, we used DTI with TBSS analysis to investigate the microstructure of white matter among IAD adolescents. The results demonstrate that IAD is characterized by impairment of white matter fibers connecting brain regions involved emotional generation and processing, executive attention, decision making, and cognitive control. The findings also suggest that IAD may share psychological and neural mechanisms with other types of impulse control disorders and substance addiction. In addition, the associations between FA values in white matter regions and behavioral measures indicate that white matter integrity may serve as a potential new treatment target for IAD, and DTI may be valuable in providing information on prognosis for IAD, and FA may be a qualified biomarker to assess the effectiveness of specific early interventions in IAD.
This is an environmental agent, that can potentially alter the characteristics of the phenotype associated with autism and ADHD. It's not the kind of thing many people likely want to hear anywhere, but it can't reasonably be ignored, any more than the rat studies with the environmental agent valporic acid, that led to the intense world theory of autism.
The study of what environmental agents may potentially make autism an impairing condition for some.
And this study doesn't have anything to do with autism or autism speaks, nor did the first studies on rats and valporic acid that suggested that environmental agent caused birth defects in pregnancy. Research studies often eventually result in answers not related to the original purpose.
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