Is Fox news destroying the GOP?

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If tax money is paying for something, Government has the ability to regulate it. Thus if Government is paying for the healthcare of every American, then they can arguably regulate every aspect of our lives.

what a slippery slope you live on.

Actually there is something that a lot of us have used that kind of prove what I'm saying.

The Americans with Disabilities Act, is able to be enforced because tax money enters the equation, business or school that receives taxpayer money has to comply with ADA. I'm not saying ADA is a bad thing, I'm just pointing out that the same issue would be in place here.

Another example is social security disability checks, which you have to fill out all these forms every so often, that's because in order to get the money you have to follow the rules laid out by the government.

So, this isn't simply a slippery slope argument, this already goes on to an extent right now.

I fail to see freedom disappearing in Canada and Western Europe just because they have universal healthcare. And you know what? Their freedom aint goin' anywhere soon - - if ever. That's just a bogeyman the right has been harping on since before the days of social security.
And as for social security disability recipients having to fill out paperwork every year - there's nothing sinister about that. It's just to see if recipients still qualify for benefits, or if they make too much money to justify being on the program any longer.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

It's the same thing with Government controlled health care though, because they are paying for it, they have the ability to regulate your life on everything that can affect your health.

So what?

Meaning we would have no rights, they could tell us what to eat, what to wear, what to buy, etc.

This is one of the reasons why I never believed you were a judge in the first place.

Again, where is that happening anywhere in Canada or Western Europe concerning the state controlling their private lives?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

You also don't have the tradition of self-reliance that the United States does, and also doesn't change the fact your countries are going broke due to your health care system.

I question if it was the healthcare systems in those counties that have led to their current economic situations. And the fact of the matter is, Canada has as much of a history of self-reliance that we do - they were themselves born out of a frontier society as we Americans were.
By the way, much of that self-reliance is a myth. People have always depended on the help of their neighbors in this country. And you know what happened to Americans before so called cradle to grave government intervention - they died young and underweight, from lack of proper nutrition, lack of shelter, or from illnesses or injuries that should otherwise have been treatable.
In the Old west of the 19th and early 20th centuries, you found people who were real rugged individualists who welcomed notions that were considered radicalism for its day. Hard working, hard drinking frontier laborers flocked to radical labor unions such as the Industrial Workers Of The World (IWW, or Wobblies) and the Western Federation Of Miners, or radical farmers organizations such as the Grangers welcomed homesteaders, because they had had more than enough of unfettered capitalism killing them on one side, while the harsh, unforgiving life of the frontier was killing them on the other. They needed relief, and they knew they could only achieve it through making the government offer them a helping hand.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Choosing to help your neighbor is not the same as being forced to pay for someone else's bad choices.

Also, people still die from all the things you're describing despite the cradle to grave entitlement scheme, the only thing that changed is we have less freedom.





Actually a lot of ranchers hated the farmers moving out west because they fenced in the grazing land.

Furthermore, while unions once had a legitimate purpose, they have become the problem now because our businesses can't compete with overseas businesses.

People have always helped people regardless if they were responsible for their problems or not.
And I was bringing up the farmers and radical labor as examples of how hardy individualists had found how their rugged individualism wasn't enough to save their lives and livelihoods. The old west angle is too interesting to me to argue about modern labor relations at the moment.
Sure, people in this country still die from those things, but not to the extent of what it had been prior to government help.
And the land was being fenced off by small ranchers as well as by farmers, which elicited the ire of big ranchers who wanted the open range land for themselves. And they had the money to hire gunmen to drive the small homesteaders off, such as Wyoming's Johnson County War. Again, the rich waging class warfare on the poor.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer