discrimination???

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We have a 7 year old son who was just diagnosed with Aspergers within the past month. This morning, while we were at a bakery trying to have breakfast, my son was having a tantrum. He started to scream, hit at me, etc. I took him to the side of the restaurant and was calmly trying to calm him down and talk to him, he continued to have his tantrum during our outing. Before we were going to leave, a manager came to us and asked us to eat our food outside that he had too many people complaining about my sons behavior. I was trying to calm my son down as best as I could. I told him that my son was autistic and that he was discriminating against us. He still insisted that we take our food and sit outside to eat it. Were we discriminated against this morning? Is there any advice on what we can do?

unfortunately this is not dicriminazation. for the screaming child was disrupting parons experience.. the same would have gone for an nt child.

I'm so sorry this happened to you. It stinks.

It's funny - in this particular situation, there is an awful lot of grey area. There's a degree to which this is no different than a mother breastfeeding in public: she has a right to breastfeed, even if there are people who are (inexplicably) bothered by the idea of breastfeeding. On the other hand, a full-on meltdown is a fairly significant encroachment on other patrons in a restaurant, no matter what their personal feelings are.

IMO, and I'm not a lawyer, the store owner did not have the right to ask you to eat outside, and was not as understanding of disability as he should be. The way he responded makes me think he was imagining "bratty kid" and not "disability." Not sure where you go with this information, but you're not the first with this issue: http://www.dosomething.org/project/autism-family-night Maybe it's as simple as printing out and mailing the linked articles on that site to the bakery.

I think, though, that it wouldn't have been unreasonable to ask you to temporarily go somewhere out of earshot. Maybe. I'm not 100% as I write this, and as the parent of an Aspie, I recognize that this is not the easiest directive to follow.

As I was googling for information, I found this thread; the comment section horrified me. It's amazing how intolerant people can be: http://mommyish.com/childrearing/should ... s-totally/

I'm in the Chicago area, and at one of the places where my son gets treatment, I saw a card for an online organization that allows parents to "rate" businesses' disability-friendliness. I think if a place is badly rated, they do send out information on ADA compliance/friendliness to the owners. I wish I could remember the name of the website, and it's defying all my google skills right now; but I think it's a terrific idea.

Found it, finally! http://www.jjslist.com/

I am of the belief that we all have a duty to minimize the negative impact we put on others as much as possible. Which means that if a child can be effectively removed from a public place during a tantrum, you do so. If he can't, you bear with the dirty looks and pray for a little understanding.

Balance can be hard to find when raising kids and trying to give them a rich life, but that balance is a job for us, the parents, and not the community. When people see that you are trying hard to respect their needs for peace, 90% of them will rally to your side. If you show no respect for their rights, you won't get any back.

All that said, I once had to calm my son son in the middle of an enclosed aquarium. The worst place he could have melted down and I could not move him. I guess I at least looked duly embarrassed as I tired to tune out the world and focused on my son's needs. It was the sweetest thing when someone came up and asked if there was anything she could do, and did she mind if she asked if he was autistic.

I have left half eaten meals, hurriedly paid for, and abandoned theme parks after only a half hour. These are the costs we, as the parents, bear. They belong to us, not everyone around us, and you just have to build it into your outing system: you may have to leave suddenly. Thankfully, my son learned to manage his stress and none of that happens anymore. But part of the incentive to him for learning to handle it was knowing that we never considered it his right to lose it in public. And, well, is a busy public place where he really needs to be in a meltdown? Absolutely not.

I think the manager was trying hard to find balance when he asked you to go outside (I assume there were tables outside?). Balance for you and the other customers. You made a good move pulling to a side; he was hoping as it dragged on that you could go a little further.

You'll meet a few true jerks like the guy who told me I had no right to be on a public ferry with a child who was crying because of a fall, but that is really rare. Most people are just looking for a little mutual respect.

IMHO.

Interestingly enough, you won't hear much sympathy from our AS adults on this issue. Many of them have severe sensory issues that making listening to a screaming child feel like nails cramming into their heads. They feel pretty strongly about their right to go out to eat without having to experience that.

Also, a second on semantics: tantrums are things all kids can do and kids should be removed. Unless they are throwing the tantrum hoping to be removed. Meltdowns are disability related and you are stuck doing the best you can.

I try to think about what is best for my child, rather than who has the right to do what. Kids having meltdowns are not happy kids (I'd argue that NT kids misbehaving are not happy either) so they don't really want to be in the situation they're in. Removing them quickly from the situation, while remaining calm and positive (not blaming or criticizing the child) is what I aim for, although I don't always succeed. And my ASD child can be like a tree trunk, unmoveable. But I am trying to role model by removing myself from situations where I am feeling overwhelmed, to show my child how to give herself the space she needs to be who she is, to get to a peaceful state, etc.

Many parents of NT babies, toddlers and children face this situation, so it isn't really discrimination on the basis of a disability. But it might be a sign of our society's lack of understanding towards children that so many behaviours are deemed "unacceptable" when adults around, while adults are allowed to be noisy and obnoxious in the same situations.
J.

Thank you for all of your input. I think I was mostly embarrassed. I am usually the first one to say "lets go" when my son is misbehaving or having a melt down. Today, I think we were just having an off day with all of this taking place in about 10 minutes of being there. We also have a 9 month old, so that is a whole other person whom we are trying to care for. I think the manager handled the situation poorly. I would have preferred that he told me he had some complaints about the noise level, is there anything that they can do to help us. Asking us to sit outside (where there are more patrons eating) was not a solution or helpful. It was just a way to "get rid of us". Like I said, I was trying to calm my son down enough so we could leave. The manager approached us just as we were about to leave the place anyways. I just didn't like his attitude. Oh, and for the person who said they looked at him as a "bratty kid". I whole heartedly agree. I think everyone assumes your child who has this disorder is just a brat. Thank you for understanding and for your support. I just needed to hear that you've been there done that and I'm not alone in this world with a child who has melt downs in public!

(((( hugs )))) most definitely not the only one, although I think overall I've had pretty good luck with strangers being relatively patient with us. Or I'm totally oblivious; that is possible, too.

It is embarrassing but you do learn to tune that part out and just do what you need to do to get things under control. Then, when your child is 14, some of those doubting Thomases will start telling you what an amazing job you've done, and how much difference it obviously makes when an AS child is raised in a supportive family that works hard to meet the AS child's needs He he, just got that one yesterday .... From my mother.

Weeelll, except sometimes it isn't. Let's look at it this way: what if it were an epileptic seizure and not a meltdown? What if it was an adult and not a child? I think if you re-frame the situation, the lines are clearer that this business expressed a lack of tolerance for something the family can't avoid, unless they put their child in a bubble and never go anywhere. It isn't as though their kid didn't follow protocol at a State Dinner - they were grabbing a quick bite in a bakery, and because the same behavior isn't an expression of a disability in an NT child doesn't mean the rules for disability don't apply here.

While I agree that we should be out there making every effort to minimize the impact we have on society, we also have a responsibility to educate wherever we can, because the "brat" response is a reflection of lack of education. Of course, the time for that is not the moment when one is handling such a situation - but we can always be the parent who asks "is there anything I can do?" or otherwise offers a good example of an appropriate response, or we can keep literature on being an autism-friendly place of business to give out as the occasion arises (If anybody finds some, please let me know - coming up dry on google.)

Sorry, I just meant that most adults don't treat a meltdown with an ASD person any differently than they treat a tantrum with an NT child. I feel the intolerance and criticism is unfair in either case, but I see what you mean. A parent may have even less control when it happens with an ASD child, but a panic reaction or distress really can happen to NT children as well. In all cases, I feel it is best to take the child out. I also understand how hard that is in practice, and I agree that parents of ASD kids deal with a lot more of this situation than others. It is one of the things that makes life much more stressful for parents of kids on the spectrum.

Most people really need to get a life. They shouldn't be wasting their time and energy on such negative feelings towards other people. I will try to be the parent who asks if there is anything I can do to help.
J.

I agree with what DW had to say but I also wanted to add... if your son was in a situation that triggered a meltdown/tantrum, it would be best to remove him from whatever that trigger may be. Many tantrums and meltdowns are caused by sensory issues. Expecting a child already at his threshold to endure it longer isn't going to yield positive results. Bottom line - raising his threshold for whatever it is that triggers him will be a slow long process. It may just be a matter of adjusting your expectations and working with what you have.

It may have been a meltdown he was having so that was why he couldn't stop. You should have taken him out of the restaurant until he has calmed down. It's not right to disturb other people with your son.

Also if he was having a sensory overload, you would have been doing him a big favor by taking him out of there. Was the place noisy BTW or was there lot of people or lot of talking?

His diagnosis is new, so we are new to Aspergers. We are still waiting to get set up with therapists and help. I'm still trying to figure out what he can handle, what causes melt downs, etc. I'm usually the first one to take my son out of a restaurant/store/situation if he starts having a melt down. I think I was just having an off day like I said. I will have to start paying more attention to my sons cue's I guess.

My husband thinks we can't go anywhere anymore and we should just do things separately or stay home. I don't think that is the solution to our situation at all. Does anyone have any advice for us? We have no idea how to handle taking him out in public. Thank you for any help you can offer.

No, you don't need to hole up. You just need to think a little harder about what you do with your child, to minimize sensory stress, and to help him find the right balance to self regulate. My son loves going places, he just needs measured doses and a few mitigation plans in place. Disneyland? Hand him a map, devise a strategy for lines, and take a mid day break - check, done, successful trip. Shopping issues? Sunglasses or ear phones might be in order. And so on. Pay attention to your child, figure out what he has the most trouble handling, learn to recognize the signs of stress build up, and develop some mitigation techniques. Kids like my son are happy world travelers, Boy Scouts, museum aficionados, soccer players, and more. You figure it out. Some ages are worse, some are better, some periods you are home more, some you are more active. There is no script.

One of our AS adult members wrote a book that many parents here have found is a good place to start. The book is still a work in process, and it is free for download at ASDStuff.com.

Your child hasn't changed. It's just now you have the keys that will allow you to find some better answers.

You were totally doing the right thing - you were calming him to take him out - but the manager and patrons did not know that. As for me, in addition to focusing on what is right for my child and the public, I need to think about my insecurities or embarrasment. What I mean is that I need to have confidence (very difficult for me in the moment) that I'm doing the best I can, right or wrong. I can expect that people around me don't understand and it's not their fault. I will give a few words of explanation if I can, and don't blame them terribly if I can't. Thanking people for their understanding might also help.

These situations are unfortunate because not a lot of people know about ASD, but each one has potential to bring more understanding to more people. We need to have confidence that we are bridging that understanding and not let embarrasement steer us wrong.

You did tell him your son was autistic. I think maybe I would have added, I'm heading out the door but I need a few more moments to calm my son. It's so tough b/c you are trying to calm everyone around you when you are least calm yourself inside.

Usually adults in public react negatively to moms who do nothing to help their child stop the irritating behavior. If you are clearly working hard with your son, many people have sympathy.

you dont have to stay home from now on, thats actually not beneficial for your son. he needs exposure to different things and to learn how to handle being out in the world, and he cant do that by staying home the rest of his childhood. like dw said, you just need to learn what he can handle and how to mitigate the stressors. over time, he will be able to handle and do more and more, and you will continually adjust what you expose him to as he grows.

what i find difficult about trips outside the home is not the asd behaviors but the judgmental behaviors of others. part of that is because when they see a meltdown, they think tantrum, but we cannot treat our asd meltdown kids the same as a tantruming child. you cannot discipline away a meltdown. so when we react to an asd meltdown, it looks nothing like what others expect to see a parent doing to stop a tantrum. thats when the judging comes, because to them we just look like permissive parents with a spoiled brat, and the retail world hates that more than almost anything else. for me, the worst part is my own discomfort with that judgement, because i am doing what i know i need to do to help my son, yet i can still feel all the eyes boring into my skull wishing for me to just discipline my child into obedience. oh if it were only that easy!