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Ragtime
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28 Oct 2011, 11:13 am

91 wrote:
DW's posts are dead on correct.

Ragtime wrote:
The command to abstain from relating with the dead is a command for man. Jesus, being the God who gave the command in the first place, is not bound by it, just as He mentions He is "Lord also of the Sabbath", and thus can treat it as He wishes.


Christ was both God and man. He states the Sabbath is made for man not man for the Sabbath. It is not just him who can treat it as he wishes. The command relating to the dead does not say one cannot pray to the dead. The command is one in line with a great deal of OT law relating to the use of divination and necromancy. If Christ had sinned as a man, then he would have sinned; but he did not sin in his action, he was blameless.

Ragtime wrote:
I don't read Maccabees as Scripture; I accept the canon. Also, why would the dead need to pray for us, and what good would it do beyond the living praying for us? (...the latter of which is Scriptural, and very much so.) Christ is our intercessor. (Romans 8; Hebrews 7) And no intercessor among the dead is ever mentioned.


Can you keep your red herrings to one per paragraph.... it seems you just want to spill out your misinformation as fast as possible and gives me no sense you want a discussion. Bataar has already more than answered you on Maccabees. At this point you have been given sufficient reason to reexamine your assumptions. As for the intercession of the Saints and dead: http://www.catholic.com/tracts/the-inte ... the-saints

"At the Lord’s table we do not commemorate martyrs in the same way that we do others who rest in peace so as to pray for them, but rather that they may pray for us that we may follow in their footsteps" (Homilies on John 84 [A.D. 416]). St Augustine

Ragtime wrote:
There is no spiritual authority among men. None. In Scripture there are teachers only. No one is spiritually accountable to a certain other who is set in a certain office to be accounted to.


Really no spiritual authority among men?

'These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you.' Titus 2:15

Anyone who has studied the life of St. Ignatius the Bishop of Antioch and student of John the Apostle cannot escape the conclusions that many protestant views on spiritual authority are misguided. We have in the very first generation after the Apostles the establishment of the Bishops, the emphasis on the real presence etc.


Meh, let's just stop. You have a good idea where I stand, and I you.



Bataar
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28 Oct 2011, 11:24 am

Some of the reasons people complain about Catholics are so far out there it's almost funny, if it wasn't so sad. It would be like me saying I'm not a democrat because they butcher live cats before any meetings.



Ragtime
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28 Oct 2011, 2:09 pm

Bataar wrote:
Some of the reasons people complain about Catholics are so far out there it's almost funny, if it wasn't so sad. It would be like me saying I'm not a democrat because they butcher live cats before any meetings.


I could say something about that which would turn a corner in this debate, and lauch it into a mere offshoot of itself, but I think people are about done listening.

I'll close by saying that, as a classical music afficionado, I enjoy both the Catholic and the Protestant composers very much. :)
(Long lists of each.)



91
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28 Oct 2011, 3:13 pm

Ragtime wrote:
Meh, let's just stop. You have a good idea where I stand, and I you.


Fair call.


_________________
Life is real ! Life is earnest!
And the grave is not its goal ;
Dust thou art, to dust returnest,
Was not spoken of the soul.