Grand Unified Theory of Autism-Social and language problems

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swbluto
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28 Oct 2011, 8:32 pm

I think I found a possible explanation that could explain many social and communication deficits in autism.

It is the mental blurring of the line separating ones conception of ones "self" with "others" and "others" with "others", and this problem is probably some particular side effect or primary effect of a diminished or 'damaged' ToM. This diminished or 'damaged' theory of mind is probably responsible for language and communication problems, such as use of language inappropriate to the context (What will my audience understand?) and assuming the person knows something when you say something when they definitely don't, leading them to think you're weird or crazy, and leading you to say something the audience already knows (which is obvious to most other people), leading them to think you're insulting them.

The blurring of the mental line separating "self" with "others" and "others" with "others" potentially explains Echolalia, A lessened social awareness of hierarchy and "social circles", pronoun reversal and other social problems unique to autism.

In echolalia, it's possible that one mentally imagines being the other person for a split second after they say something, and thus when you say something, you say exactly what they said.

In pronoun reversal, one may switch the words "You" and "I" because a confusion between you and the person you're thinking of. The "line" between you and others is confused. Also, in the case other pronouns are confused, such as "he" or "she" and "you", this is the blurring of the line separating the conception of other people with each other.

In the case of misperceiving hierarchies and cliques and/or "social bonds", it could be because one has difficulty disassociating oneself with others, and thus a lessened internal awareness of the "other", leading to difficulty in perceiving a possible bond between the "self" and the "other" and/or having a more shallow/naive understanding of that "bond".

And, one unique social situation where "my urge" was atypical and would've been really awkward if actualized, was that one girl in my class said something to a friend and I felt really tempted to reply to that person, but what I wanted to say was something only a friend was supposed to say and it would've been really awkward, according to a neurotypical, since I clearly wasn't that person's friend. It's possible I was imagining being the friend, but the line separating my "self" with "her" (the friend) was blurred, and so "I" wanted to say it really badly.



wavefreak58
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28 Oct 2011, 10:22 pm

swbluto wrote:
I think I found a possible explanation that could explain many social and communication deficits in autism.


So you have solved the mysteries of autism where decades of research have failed?

Your awesomeness is beyond description.

Are you sure you're autistic? Narcissism seem a better fit.


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Verdandi
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28 Oct 2011, 10:27 pm

I do not believe that autism is defined entirely or primarily by social difficulties. I believe that the social and language difficulties are a reflection of processing differences in autistic brains - which is also reflected in sensory sensitivity, executive function deficits, a tendency toward anxiety, stimming, and so on.

The focus on social deficits gets exaggerated and overemphasized because people view social interaction as something of primary importance, and like to say ridiculous things like "the capacity to perform this social trick is what makes us human."



Mdyar
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28 Oct 2011, 11:18 pm

I looks like a workable paradigm, it is fundamental, less of course the sensory issues, etc.

Just look at the Sally Anne test.

There is a "blurred" distinction in discerning or imagining the "other." "She will go there because the ball is in the box, because that's where it is."

The mechanism is what though? Is it spatial in nature, as in 'visual spatial?' Well, no, though many are impaired here, but having an intact spatial ability still allows impaired ToM.

How come cognitive testing, such as certain IQ parameters, cannot find a universal metric in determining the faulty mechanism?

Hence, what *testable* cognitive compartment is responsible for the lack in ToM?



Last edited by Mdyar on 28 Oct 2011, 11:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

swbluto
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28 Oct 2011, 11:30 pm

wavefreak58 wrote:
swbluto wrote:
I think I found a possible explanation that could explain many social and communication deficits in autism.

Are you sure you're autistic? Narcissism seem a better fit.


Lol, no, I'm not sure. And, I'll agree I'm a bit narcissistic. But, btw, "I think I found a possible explanation" is not really that narcissistic.

But, I do seem to have a lot of "oddnesses" / "problems" that seem to relate to ToM and I keep seeing connections back to the "sense of self", and its interactions with the social environment, that result in these oddnesses. It might be some other kind of pathology, but the total body of evidence seems to point in the direction of autism, and the confusion of the self with others seems to explain a lot of symptoms in a unified way that my alternative hypothesis, schizohprenia, does not.



btbnnyr
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28 Oct 2011, 11:38 pm

I feel that my autism is due to my brain processing sensory stimuli of the physical environment excessively, at high volume and in high resolution, such that social stimuli are not emphasized above all the other stimuli. Sensory stimuli of the physical environment include both objects like carpet fibers and objects like freckles on human faces.

I don't know about the self vs. other idea. I feel that it is not so much confusing myself with others that causes my social and communication problems, but instead, not thinking about myself, others, myself in relation to others, or others in relation to others, not doing all this social thinking that causes social and communication problems with people who do this social thinking automatically. From my perspective, excessively. Since I don't think that way at all, I don't understand social cues and hierarchies.

Emotionally, I am not like others either. What causes others to feel X causes me to feel Y. I don't fit the NT stimulus-to-response profile of emotions, so I don't share the same feelings in the same situations. Sharing those is the first step towards persons simulating each other to be able to know what each other is thinking and feeling. Since I don't share, I don't know. All I see is behavior when I look at them. All they see is behavior when they look at me.

I don't think there is a specific cognitive impairment that causes problems in ToM. I think that the whole brain is working differently in autistics.



swbluto
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28 Oct 2011, 11:38 pm

Mdyar wrote:
The mechanism is what though? Is it spatial in nature, as in 'visual spatial?' Well, no, though many are impaired here, but having an intact spatial ability still allows impaired ToM.

How come cognitive testing, such as certain IQ parameters, cannot find a universal metric in determining the faulty mechanism?

Hence, what *testable* cognitive compartment is responsible for the lack in ToM?


I'm trying to imagine how I seem to think, and it seems to be ... untestable, because it's like one forgets about the "self" or about the "other". This might be due to some kind of "social" working memory capacity that's not directly dependent on the typical "working memory" that underlies IQ. That is, it could be an impairment in efficiently imagining multiple people and it might be testable in 2nd or 3rd order ToM tasks (Which is ToM tasks where you try to imagine 2 or more people). Since "real world" ToM tasks as in socialization require quick thinking, speed might be able to differentiate between autistic groups and neurotypicals and this aspect of autism might be measurable.



swbluto
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28 Oct 2011, 11:46 pm

btbnnyr wrote:
I don't know about the self vs. other idea. I feel that it is not so much confusing myself with others that causes my social and communication problems, but instead, not thinking about myself, others, myself in relation to others, or others in relation to others, not doing all this social thinking that causes social and communication problems with people who do this social thinking automatically. From my perspective, excessively. Since I don't think that way at all, I don't understand social cues and hierarchies.


It's possible I might be BAP where as you're purely autistic, so I would have a share of neurotypical thinking and a bit of autistic thinking and I could possibly understand these core deficits a bit better since I have the "NT" perspective to more fully understand them, while also having problems in these areas.

Of course, I might just happen to be "mostly NT", with some deficits in social thinking and communication that seem autistic in nature, or "like autistic". It might be possible that schizophrenia might affect ToM in a similar way considering the high neurological similarities and similarities in core symptoms.



Last edited by swbluto on 28 Oct 2011, 11:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Mdyar
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28 Oct 2011, 11:49 pm

The thing here that is atypical in this social account in the OP, is the ability to recognize "it." To see it as 'faulty,' though the "urge" to act is subconscious -- to move to doing the act but the intellect checks it in real time.

The fundamental or typical case here, from what I've read on the board, that there is the ability to know but the ability to act with what is known can never be bridged -- hence ToM remains unlearnt. The conscious knowledge never (seldom?) coalesces within the subconscious.



swbluto
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28 Oct 2011, 11:59 pm

Mdyar wrote:
The thing here that is atypical in this social account in the OP, is the ability to recognize "it." To see it as 'faulty,' though the "urge" to act is subconscious -- to move to doing the act but the intellect checks it in real time.


The only reason why I saw it as "faulty" because I thought it'd make people mad as I thought it could've been interpreted in a hostile way (I didn't trust my tone of voice would not sound angry). However, a neurotypical on the board reported that it was something only a friend would say, and for me to say it would actually be "really awkward" AND... I did not know that (Even though I'm well aware I have a history of saying socially awkward things). So, I speculate I was imagining being the "friend", and I didn't distinguish between my "self" and the "friend".

Of course, maybe I just don't know the "friends only" rules because I haven't learned them. Or maybe I'm psychotic or something.



btbnnyr
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29 Oct 2011, 12:17 am

Mdyar wrote:
The fundamental or typical case here, from what I've read on the board, that there is the ability to know but the ability to act with what is known can never be bridged -- hence ToM remains unlearnt. The conscious knowledge never (seldom?) coalesces within the subconscious.


It seems like there is some ability to know, but often way after the timepoint of possible application. Like you only find out what was going on in a social interaction hours, days, weeks, months, years after the fact. The ability to know in real-time seems pretty low, but maybe I am wrong about this, and many people do know in real-time but still cannot apply.



Mdyar
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29 Oct 2011, 12:37 am

This is your thread so................

On a ToM litmus tangent: I was thinking about an eye test that could be used for someone with an impairment with the non-verbal, i.e. poor/none/half-way eye contact- forced--unnatural.

I'll try to explain eye contact for myself: eye contact is a sense or feeling the others' mind by glimpsing into them or the "soul."

So, you certainly feel just as they do in that moment of time. Figuratively speaking, you switch positions with them via imaginations, and their force actuates you into a 'projection;' you feel their pain, sorrow, or joy, etc. Yourself becomes blurred in that moment of time, to where you are unaware of yourself-- you literally lose yourself to them in that moment. You are them now.

This is how I experience eyecontact when my divided attention allows it.

Of course the 'empathy' here is in conjunction with the verbal and like/ similar experiences between us.

I think eye contact here evokes the greater depth or degree of this. You would have sympathy alone if your were blind.

You?



Last edited by Mdyar on 29 Oct 2011, 12:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

swbluto
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29 Oct 2011, 12:45 am

Mdyar wrote:
This is your thread so................

On a litmus tangent: I was thinking about an eye test that could be used for someone with an impairment with the non-verbal, i.e. poor/none/half-way eye contact- but forced--unnatural.

I'll try to explain eye contact for myself: eye contact is a sense or feeling the others' mind by glimpsing into them or the "soul."

So, you certainly feel just as they do in that moment of time. Figuratively speaking, you switch positions with them via imaginations, and their force actuates you into a 'projection;' you feel their pain, sorrow, or joy, etc. Yourself becomes blurred in that moment of time, to where you are unaware of yourself-- you literally lose yourself to them in that moment. You are them now.

This is how I experience eyecontact when my divided attention allows it.

You?


Maybe. I don't know.

I personally see eyes and I can hear their tone of voice and I can see their facial expression so I can infer an emotional state from that. I might be imagining myself being in their position, but I don't seem to remember it or it doesn't stand out too strongly to me, at least not as vividly as your post seems to imply.



btbnnyr
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29 Oct 2011, 12:48 am

Mdyar wrote:
This is your thread so................

On a litmus tangent: I was thinking about an eye test that could be used for someone with an impairment with the non-verbal, i.e. poor/none/half-way eye contact- but forced--unnatural.

I'll try to explain eye contact for myself: eye contact is a sense or feeling the others' mind by glimpsing into them or the "soul."

So, you certainly feel just as they do in that moment of time. Figuratively speaking, you switch positions with them via imaginations, and their force actuates you into a 'projection;' you feel their pain, sorrow, or joy, etc. Yourself becomes blurred in that moment of time, to where you are unaware of yourself-- you literally lose yourself to them in that moment. You are them now.

This is how I experience eyecontact when my divided attention allows it.

You?


Whoa, this is very new and interesting to me. This seems to be what people are talking about when they say the thing about the eyes being the windows of the soul.

Do this happen with everyone or only with people close to you?

Eye contact to me means seeing the eye color, eye lashes, eyelid creases, eye corner wrinkles, eyebrows, pupils, iris specks, iris rings, and bloodshot eyeballs of the other person.



Mdyar
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29 Oct 2011, 12:51 am

OK re-check my post as I fumbled the re-- edit. Sorry.



Mdyar
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29 Oct 2011, 1:01 am

To add: Like most people, I though cannot experience this as they do. They pick up on each other in an instant of time in their relations, it is as if they knew each other for a lifetime.......this has always been uncanny to me, hence why I still think there may be something off a bit in the ToM department---though maybe it is intrinsic to plain old introversion....could be.