19th century vs 21st century europe
.
The French Revolution produced 20,000 dead during the Terror and unleashed Napoleon on the world. Are you still happy with that Revolution?
Vivre La France!
ruveyn
Bang!
_________________
.
.
The French Revolution produced 20,000 dead during the Terror and unleashed Napoleon on the world. Are you still happy with that Revolution?
Vivre La France!
ruveyn
Bang!
Huh?
The US Constitution was penned in 1787.
The French Revolution started in 1789,
Or the fact that, er, they're still doing it when Britain was the first to abolish it?
We've grown up; they haven't and a lot of them still behave like savages. Simples.
it's quite incongruous to compare what is referred to as slavery today in africa with the atlantic slave trade. and your argument is quite simply over-simplistic. domestic slavery and sex trafficking, for instance are still fairly commonplace in europe, england included. it's a big problem. and indeed, to refer to africans as "savage" is clearly racist.
_________________
?Civil government, so far as it is instituted for the security of property, is in reality instituted for the defense of the rich against the poor, or of those who have some property against those who have none at all.?
Adam Smith
Oodain
Veteran
Joined: 30 Jan 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,022
Location: in my own little tamarillo jungle,
.
The French Revolution produced 20,000 dead during the Terror and unleashed Napoleon on the world. Are you still happy with that Revolution?
Vivre La France!
ruveyn
Bang!
Huh?
The US Constitution was penned in 1787.
The French Revolution started in 1789,
but the swedish constitution was drafted a decade before that.
in reality consitutions are as old as the pyramids with some recorded in 2500 BC
they havent been an innovation for centuries.
_________________
//through chaos comes complexity//
the scent of the tamarillo is pungent and powerfull,
woe be to the nose who nears it.
And as for the Indus Valley Civilization (IVC): In the Bronze Age, they standardized an octal (base metric system-like system of measurement, had dentistry, almost universal indoor toilets, covered sewers and plumbing and, perhaps most incredibly, they had the assembly line and mass production. And the IVC was close to genderblind: See here: http://bradford.academia.edu/EmilyFiocc ... vilization .
_________________
Learn the patterns of the past; consider what is not now; help what is not the past; plan for the future.
-Myself
Because I perceived it as an attack on them - "¡Gibraltar Español!", "¡Las Malvinas son Argentinas!", oh and "Ireland unfree shall never be at peace" and so on. I've heard enough bile over the years from those two countries over the state of our loyal citizens.
Also:
(not taken by me but I think it's rather fetching - taken in Gibraltar)
I think this is a rather fetching photo.
Basically, my point was that they're not 'colonies' and really have very little to do with the Empire apart from the fact that they're British posessions often obtained before the main British Empire was in full swing and remain under British jurisdiction entirely willingly. Basically it's almost the opposite of Empire.
And Malta should have been integrated with Britain - there were moves to do this in the 1950s and we should have taken them up on it. I blame the Foreign Office for this.
Last edited by Tequila on 17 Nov 2011, 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Who's to say they would have remained benevolent to the people they compromise? Think of what Lord Acton said.
And if I was 'rude' I cite as mitigation your comments regarding not shedding a tear over modern-day Europe finding itself in difficulties. That didn't go down well (it's pretty insulting to all the people in Europe suffering to be honest) especially as a lot of European countries had very little to do with empire.
.
The French Revolution produced 20,000 dead during the Terror and unleashed Napoleon on the world. Are you still happy with that Revolution?
Vivre La France!
ruveyn
Bang!
Huh?
The US Constitution was penned in 1787.
The French Revolution started in 1789,
but the swedish constitution was drafted a decade before that.
in reality consitutions are as old as the pyramids with some recorded in 2500 BC
they havent been an innovation for centuries.
What does THAT have to do with anything?
That doesnt change the fact that Vex has his dates mixed up and is casting Thomas Jefferson as a time traveler who could be influenced by something that hadnt happened yet.
Both revolutions were inspired by 18th Centurey French and British Enlightenment thinkers- so they both sprang from the same sources.
So you could say that thats what Vex meant, he didnt say it that way.
Who's to say they would have remained benevolent to the people they compromise? Think of what Lord Acton said.
_________________
Learn the patterns of the past; consider what is not now; help what is not the past; plan for the future.
-Myself
Oodain
Veteran
Joined: 30 Jan 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,022
Location: in my own little tamarillo jungle,
.
The French Revolution produced 20,000 dead during the Terror and unleashed Napoleon on the world. Are you still happy with that Revolution?
Vivre La France!
ruveyn
Bang!
Huh?
The US Constitution was penned in 1787.
The French Revolution started in 1789,
but the swedish constitution was drafted a decade before that.
in reality consitutions are as old as the pyramids with some recorded in 2500 BC
they havent been an innovation for centuries.
What does THAT have to do with anything?
That doesnt change the fact that Vex has his dates mixed up and is casting Thomas Jefferson as a time traveler who could be influenced by something that hadnt happened yet.
Both revolutions were inspired by 18th Centurey French and British Enlightenment thinkers- so they both sprang from the same sources.
So you could say that thats what Vex meant, he didnt say it that way.
what im saying is that the process of revolution as you put yourself is not as simple as a date and a year.
they build upon everything before them untill they reach a critical mass and become full blown revolutions.
(not that i think you disagree, i agree with your assesment of a common source or ideology)
(
_________________
//through chaos comes complexity//
the scent of the tamarillo is pungent and powerfull,
woe be to the nose who nears it.
Who's to say they would have remained benevolent to the people they compromise? Think of what Lord Acton said.
Tibet?
And who can know if they would have stayed that way?
I am a little confused, are you trying to suggest that Europe & Britain were somehow far more bloodthirsthy and barbaric than all the other civilisations that have ever existed?
The Song Dynasty had plenty of wars, modernish China has done plenty of nasty things 10 million dead in the muslim rebellion? It's not as if the formation of China was exactly a peaceful one either, these are the people that wrote 'the art of war' after all.
Relatively little is known about the Indus Valley Harappans, but it is very poor thinking to suggest that absence of evidence of violence is evidence of the absence of violence because we know so little about them.
The Mali Empire was just as soaked in blood as all the others, they did plenty of war and nastiness.
I think it's wrong how Europe is being punished by immigration. I think it has to do with white guilt. Europe destroyed the culture and people of the Americas and Australia, and now some self-righteous people feel like Europe 'deserves' to be forced to become just another part of Asia.
I do think people of any color should be allowed to come to Europe, but 'when in Europe, do as the Europeans do'. Now in America, with the Mexicans, we have no right to tell them to leave, since white Americans are not indigenous to this land. But white Europeans are indigenous to Europe. Anyone who is against the Europeans takeover and oppression of indigenous New World people should be against forcing Europe to become more like Africa and Asia.
I do think people of any color should be allowed to come to Europe, but 'when in Europe, do as the Europeans do'. Now in America, with the Mexicans, we have no right to tell them to leave, since white Americans are not indigenous to this land. But white Europeans are indigenous to Europe. Anyone who is against the Europeans takeover and oppression of indigenous New World people should be against forcing Europe to become more like Africa and Asia.
nobody is forcing europe to be more like africa and asia.
_________________
?Civil government, so far as it is instituted for the security of property, is in reality instituted for the defense of the rich against the poor, or of those who have some property against those who have none at all.?
Adam Smith
nobody is forcing europe to be more like africa and asia.
By forcing multiculturalism on countries that are populated by their indigenous people, yes, they are. Because most of the people who come to Europe are from Africa and Asia. I wouldn't have a problem with it if they made an effort to join the people they choose to live amongst, and I'm sure a lot do. But multiculturalism is different from simply being pro-immigration. It's based on the idea that it's inherently ideal for a geographic area to be ethnically mixed rather than having a unique regional culture.
Regarding your last line in the first post of yours I quote, I can see your British stiff upper lip is in full effect .
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that the "We're not Belgians, after all" is in reference to the notorious rape by Belgium of her African colonies.
http://www.wsws.org/articles/1999/sep19 ... -s06.shtml
Anyway, at least at present, European countries don't seem to be especially inclined to go to war with each other any more.