Why worry about Alpha Males?

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seoulgamer
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17 Nov 2011, 5:38 pm

All too often here, I read posts about the Alpha Male, and why women's preference for the strong and confident man spells relationship doom for the more timid among us. A piece of research or anecdotal evidence is brought up as proof that women only want the most dominant of men, with the unstated implication that most men just can't be with the girls they are attracted to.

But, what's the point of repeating this negative stereotype over and over again? I'm not saying there isn't any truth in it. What I'm more interested in is a broader definition of what constitutes "alpha". Sure, a macho guy who is very popular may stand out as the "leader", but then again, a chilled out, charming kind of a dude who doesn't care about dominating could just as easily attract women with his confident and easy-going nature.

If women want alpha males, then is there only one kind of alpha male? Can men come across as confident and attractive despite not necessarily being the leader or the person who stands up and takes charge? Is a "nice, quirky guy" who is comfortable in his quirkiness and confident around women, as attractive as a bold, bad boy alpha?

This argument is essentially put forward as a kind of proof as to why most guys can't be with the girls they like. Well, it would be interesting to have a little more productive discussion about that. If the hypothetical shy guy works up the courage to flirt, read her body language and then actually have the guts to ask her out, would he still have the same problems with women?

If anything, isn't it easier for the shy male to grow to accept himself and become more confident, and thus attractive, than it is for the "ugly" woman (for example) to make herself more physically attractive? There's really no need to feel like a victim over the alpha male stuff. We males actually have the better deal here. Not every woman is lucky enough to be extremely beautiful.


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The_Face_of_Boo
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17 Nov 2011, 5:55 pm

Because they might eat my babies.



seoulgamer
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17 Nov 2011, 6:05 pm

Nice to see a sarcastic response as always from you, Boo. :D


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anna-banana
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17 Nov 2011, 6:08 pm

going for the hottest one is bad strategy! game theory, dudes. forget about the ones who go after alphas and you shall succeed ;)

I'd like to be fuly honest here but I'm worried about the PC police :oops: I approve of your message in general, seoulgamer.

now, summon lilypafpad! :twisted:


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17 Nov 2011, 6:13 pm

anna-banana wrote:
now, summon lilypafpad! :twisted:


You have to spin around then say "lilypadfad" three times into a mirror with one eye closed


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The_Face_of_Boo
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17 Nov 2011, 6:14 pm

anna-banana wrote:
going for the hottest one is bad strategy! game theory, dudes. forget about the ones who go after alphas and you shall succeed ;)

I'd like to be fuly honest here but I'm worried about the PC police :oops: I approve of your message in general, seoulgamer.

now, summon lilypafpad! :twisted:


Ok, I am not going for you anymore.



Concretebadger
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17 Nov 2011, 6:17 pm

I think it's necessary to repeatedly bring up this personality type because that's all it is: one of many personality types that exist in both men and women. It's not immediately obvious (at least it wasn't to me at first) that the loudmouth guy isn't necessarily a threat.

For some reason (probably historical more than anything else!) there's still that generally-accepted "implication that most men just can't be with the girls they are attracted to" because of dominant men, so it bears repeating that this idea is largely false. Sure, some girls go for those guys, but quite a few don't. For every thread that I read of a man who's worried that he can't compete with the alpha male stereotype, there a thread started by a girl who's worried that she can't match the female equivalent (alpha female?).

Don't get me wrong, I reckon it's a very good question. I interpreted the OP as suggesting that the problems men sometimes have with women are in fact based on common misconceptions and over-simplifications.



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17 Nov 2011, 6:22 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Because they might eat my babies.


don't worry, they won't eat your babies. they might father them though.

:twisted:


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Grisha
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17 Nov 2011, 6:32 pm

Once again we are hypothesizing about stereotypes.

All women are different, it's extremely unproductive to figure out what one kind they like because such a thing doesn't exist.

The only thing that I can say with certainty is that EVERY guy has women out there who would like him, the real problem is locating and connecting with them, which may be more difficult for some men than others.

In regards to the "Alpha" concept, I personally define a true "Alpha" as someone with the following characteristics, regardless of physique or personality:

- Able to adequately and reliably support himself and his family (if applicable)
- Confident but not arrogant.
- Moral but not self-righteous
- Takes good care of himself physically, intellectually, and aesthetically.
- Emotionally grounded and stable
- Genuinely interested in the welfare of others without regard for personal gain.

Such a person naturally earns the respect of other men and attraction from women regardless of what they look like or how aggressive their personality is.

I think anyone can be an "Alpha" by this definition.



seoulgamer
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17 Nov 2011, 6:33 pm

Concretebadger wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I reckon it's a very good question. I interpreted the OP as suggesting that the problems men sometimes have with women are in fact based on common misconceptions and over-simplifications.

That's exactly my concern-that the positive aspects of trying to grow and develop confidence in yourself get drowned out by all the fear that the alpha male represents an impossible standard.


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seoulgamer
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17 Nov 2011, 6:41 pm

Grisha wrote:
Once again we are hypothesizing about stereotypes.

All women are different, it's extremely unproductive to figure out what one kind they like because such a thing doesn't exist.

The only thing that I can say with certainty is that EVERY guy has women out there who would like him, the real problem is locating and connecting with them, which may be more difficult for some men than others.

In regards to the "Alpha" concept, I personally define a true "Alpha" as someone with the following characteristics, regardless of physique or personality:

- Able to adequately and reliably support himself and his family (if applicable)
- Confident but not arrogant.
- Moral but not self-righteous
- Takes good care of himself physically, intellectually, and aesthetically.
- Emotionally grounded and stable
- Genuinely interested in the welfare of others without regard for personal gain.

Such a person naturally earns the respect of other men and attraction from women regardless of what they look like or how aggressive their personality is.

I think anyone can be an "Alpha" by this definition.


That last line is particularly what I was trying to get at. There's nothing exclusive or "can't keep up" about being the best you can be.

Incidentally, you seem to be doing a fairly good job of that in your own life. :)


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Tequila
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17 Nov 2011, 6:52 pm

I suppose the main problem might be when you're getting along with a girl and Alpha Male is aggressively muscling in on her, bullying you and making your life hell whilst being abusive to you? What do you do then?



The_Face_of_Boo
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17 Nov 2011, 6:59 pm

Tequila wrote:
I suppose the main problem might be when you're getting along with a girl and Alpha Male is aggressively muscling in on her, bullying you and making your life hell whilst being abusive to you? What do you do then?


You do what an omega male is supposed to do in that case: Withdraw.



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17 Nov 2011, 7:00 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
You do what an omega male is supposed to do in that case: Withdraw.


Or you go and murder him.



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17 Nov 2011, 7:01 pm

seoulgamer wrote:
Grisha wrote:
Once again we are hypothesizing about stereotypes.

All women are different, it's extremely unproductive to figure out what one kind they like because such a thing doesn't exist.

The only thing that I can say with certainty is that EVERY guy has women out there who would like him, the real problem is locating and connecting with them, which may be more difficult for some men than others.

In regards to the "Alpha" concept, I personally define a true "Alpha" as someone with the following characteristics, regardless of physique or personality:

- Able to adequately and reliably support himself and his family (if applicable)
- Confident but not arrogant.
- Moral but not self-righteous
- Takes good care of himself physically, intellectually, and aesthetically.
- Emotionally grounded and stable
- Genuinely interested in the welfare of others without regard for personal gain.

Such a person naturally earns the respect of other men and attraction from women regardless of what they look like or how aggressive their personality is.

I think anyone can be an "Alpha" by this definition.


That last line is particularly what I was trying to get at. There's nothing exclusive or "can't
keep up" about being the best you can be.

Incidentally, you seem to be doing a fairly good job of that in your own life. :)


Thank you :) But it's not an accident, and I am nothing special - I am about as stereotypically "non-Alpha" as you can get.

What I keep trying to tell the guys here is that everyone is born with certain assets and liabilities but at the end of the day you and only you are responsible for who you are.

There's nothing on that list that anyone cannot make progress on - there are no valid
excuses. Being "inferior" is a choice and being "superior" has nothing to do with how good looking you are or how much money you have.



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17 Nov 2011, 7:03 pm

Grisha wrote:
There's nothing on that list that anyone cannot make progress on - there are no valid excuses. Being "inferior" is a choice and being "superior" has nothing to do with how good looking you are or how much money you have.


You haven't answered my question though: what do you do if someone is muscling in on your girlfriend?