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Djimbe
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09 Dec 2011, 4:05 pm

youre NOT too old

Instruction near you:

Wuzhong Jia 1350 E. Arapaho, Ste. 122 Richardson, TX 75081 (972)671-9648 [email protected] www.HeBeiWushu.com HeBei Hsing I Tai Chi (Chen, Yang Wu, Hao, Sun) Pa Kua Chang Chi Kung

Stanley Johnson 1746 Jay Ell Dr. Richardson, TX 75081 (972)442-6104 www.southernskykungfu.com Pa-Kua Chang Yang Tai Chi Authentic Kung Fu, Inc.

Steve Cottrell 7519 C Chapel Avenue Fort Worth, Texas 76116 817.244.2347 http://www.authentickungfu.com/index.html Praying Mantis

Wing Chun Taijiquan EBMAS Wing Tsun Graham Weedon Studio 3 Dance N.E. Corner of Coit and Park Blvd 2220 Coit Rd, Suite 440 Plano, 75075 Phone: 972-398-3160 Email [email protected] http://www.weboutsourcing.com/wingtsun/ourschool.htm

Wei-Chen Ni 5220 Village Creek Dr. Plano, TX 75093 (972) 867-7728 Tai Chi Chuan Pa Kua Chang Hsing I Chuan

CapuraGinga Dallas Titans Gymnastics Dance & Fitness Center, 2150 Willow Grove Rd, Lewisville, TX 75067 Contact: Manga - (214) 629-4786 http://www.capuradallas.com/

Richard Peck Iva Peck 5924 W. Parker Rd., Ste. 100 Plano, TX 75093 (972)473-9070 Tai Chi Chuan Pa Kua Chang Hsing I Chuan

Angola Sao Bento Grande Instructor: Nigel Boyd Address: 3400 South Fitzhugh Dallas, Texas 75210 Phone: 214.939.2787

Machado Jiu-Jitsu Instructor Carlos Machado Black Belt, 6th degree 13720 Midway Rd., Suite 210 Dallas, TX 75244 972-934-1316


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Tequila
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09 Dec 2011, 4:09 pm

Burnbridge wrote:
The last fight I was in was about a year ago at some show in St Louis. The singer in the band was being a jerk, punching audience members and whipping them with the microphone.


Why the hell would the singer want to beat up his own fans?! Is he deranged?! Or were you at some sort of hooligan gathering or something?

That guy's going to be one of those people that will end up living through the rest of his life drinking through a straw if he's not careful. Lunatic.



Burnbridge
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09 Dec 2011, 4:50 pm

Djimbe wrote:
People have always asked me to "teach" this to them, and I cant!


It can be learned. Is learned. I expect you learned it the same way I did, by learning at such a young age that you take it to be an inherent, born characteristic. Although I can't understand why someone would want to learn this, i do know how it can be done:

One method of learning this is to have people randomly punch you in the face. not joking. The person who wants to learn how to go cold asks a friend they trust (who is capable of defending themselves) to randomly punch them in the face at unexpected times. You are walking down the street together one day, and "friend" suprises "trainee" with a full blown punch at the face. Trainee then tries to get a handle on their shock and rage. Do this enough times, and the trainee no longer is surprised and enraged at the sudden surprise attack. However, they are now jaded and have PTSD.

Method #2 is to break a glass bottle over their own head, and then try to perform a complex task, like throwing a ball at a target or doing math without a calculator. Long division. Results are same as above, albeit with more blood.

You are training yourself to reduce, shorten and then eliminate the paralysis of shock.

However, I do not advise anyone learn this "skill." I find it to be far more a curse than a blessing.


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Burnbridge
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09 Dec 2011, 4:58 pm

Tequila wrote:
Burnbridge wrote:
The last fight I was in was about a year ago at some show in St Louis. The singer in the band was being a jerk, punching audience members and whipping them with the microphone.


Why the hell would the singer want to beat up his own fans?! Is he deranged?! Or were you at some sort of hooligan gathering or something?

That guy's going to be one of those people that will end up living through the rest of his life drinking through a straw if he's not careful. Lunatic.


It was a punk rock show in the basement of a funky little store. There are two camps in the punk scene:

One is very positive, active and do it yourself. People trying to develop skills so they can wrest control of their lives back from convenience "culture." (think: Fugazi) I'm obsessed with DIY skills and "living off the grid," so these people like me and accept me as a human more than regular NT American consumer suburbans ever would. I fit in there, and participate in their communities. In a posi-punk mosh pit, people help each other up when they accidently fall. Lots of girls and nice people in the mosh pit.

The other is negative, nihilistic, violent and "don't give a f' about anything." They lie cheat and steal and hurt each other, cause they just don't care (think: Sex Pistols). In a f' it punk mosh pit, people punch each other and try to knock each other over, or just don't care that they kicked someone in the head while crowd surfing. Lots of jocks and coke heads in the mosh pit.

That band was an f' it band, on a bill with posi bands, playing to a posi crowd. If it was an f' it crowd, I would've left the moment I arrived.


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Djimbe
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11 Dec 2011, 6:58 am

oh man, just look up bands like The Mentors. youll be suprised what kind of abuse losers will pay for.


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Djimbe
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11 Dec 2011, 7:09 am

Burnbridge wrote:
Djimbe wrote:
People have always asked me to "teach" this to them, and I cant!


It can be learned. Is learned. I expect you learned it the same way I did, by learning at such a young age that you take it to be an inherent, born characteristic. Although I can't understand why someone would want to learn this, i do know how it can be done:

One method of learning this is to have people randomly punch you in the face. not joking. The person who wants to learn how to go cold asks a friend they trust (who is capable of defending themselves) to randomly punch them in the face at unexpected times. You are walking down the street together one day, and "friend" suprises "trainee" with a full blown punch at the face. Trainee then tries to get a handle on their shock and rage. Do this enough times, and the trainee no longer is surprised and enraged at the sudden surprise attack. However, they are now jaded and have PTSD.

Method #2 is to break a glass bottle over their own head, and then try to perform a complex task, like throwing a ball at a target or doing math without a calculator. Long division. Results are same as above, albeit with more blood.

You are training yourself to reduce, shorten and then eliminate the paralysis of shock.

However, I do not advise anyone learn this "skill." I find it to be far more a curse than a blessing.


You see, with as many Similarities as you and I seem to have, the PTSD thing strikes me as odd. There is no Emotional Content for me in Fighting. No "let down" nothing afterward. Just a Logical reaction to a complex set of physical problems. I could kill someone and go right back to the conversation I was happening before they hit the floor. Male or female 8-80. It was their descision to become a danger, and to escalate that danger to life threatening proportions. (not that id like cripple someone for slapping me or anything, id probably just ignore it - attacking me alone isn't enough to cause this reaction, ive been hit plenty of times and just stood there or moved out of the way or even laughed, you have to be a real threat to my well-being) It, among other things, makes me wonder if Im not kind of Sociopathic. And as for the above comment, no I dont think life is "precious" or sacrosanct. As sentient beings our actions, conduct and treatment of others dictate what we deserve. Were all going to die eventually, why should people that abuse others get to live long enough to abuse a LOT of others? (thats the "Act Right or get Smacked Right" law of the Ghetto I guess.)


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Burnbridge
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11 Dec 2011, 9:23 am

Well, for me, I don't want to react. My muscle memory does it of it's own accord. Sure, it's saved my life a couple of times. But I have also completely overreacted to situations that were not life threatening, but looked threatening enough to trigger an involuntary response.

Like that singer at the show...not life threatening. If anything, my behavior at that show is going to convince him that he needs to toughen up to become a more effective bully. It's not going to make him stop and reflect on his violent behavior. It just fuels hatred and revenge.

I don't find violence to be an effective way of dealing with problems. I have personally had more success in altering people's behavior by using my words than using my fists. Refusing to play into violent provocation, but still resisting, is incredibly effective.

Here's another fun story of some violence at a show that I witnessed:

fight story 2 wrote:
A high school kid was getting really rough in the mosh pit. I don't think he'd ever been to a punk show before. Kind of a jock, he was freaking out, had that sort of glow around him that said "f' yeah! i get to hit people!" There were a few other houses that had shows for that crowd in town. This wasn't one of them.

He pushed a girl pretty hard, knocking her over. A bunch of people helped her back up and started yelling at the jock. Another kid grabbed him and pulled him out of the crowd. He shoved the jock up against the wall and started screaming in his face. Telling him he was being an a'hole and that he needed to calm down.

In a moment, a third tough macho burst in between them and pushed them apart. He grabbed the kid who had been scolding the jock, and pushed that kid up against the wall and started screaming at him to calm down. Then a fourth macho dude broke in and grabbed the third dude and pushed him against the wall and started screaming at him. The whole thing was on the verge of turning into a brawl, four dudes screaming at each other.

I had trouble believing what I was seeing. In less than a minute, three times in a row, a guy tried to stop a violent situation by being more aggressive and violent than the last guy. It was only making things worse. My friend W, who lived at the house gave me a look and just started laughing a little. He calmly sauntered up to the macho dudes and asked them "what in the world are you guys doing? I live here. This is not cool. If you want to beat each other up, you're going to have to go outside and not come back."

They all started yelling at W about "who started it" and W didn't care. "Sorry, violence is just not ok in this house. We're trying to have a show here, have fun. Look around, there's a lot of small people and a lot of girl here. We don't want you starting fights. Just not cool."

The guys started to calm down a little and looked around. There was a crowd of about 60 people just staring at them. The band had stopped. All of a sudden, the macho dudes were super embarrased and went upstairs. The band started up again and everything was cool. Those guys were pretty tough looking, and if they'd started a brawl, a lot of people would've gotten hurt.

But W completely stole their fire, with words, and the show went on. Nobody went to the hospital, nobody called the cops and shut the party down. And for the rest of the night, there were four macho dudes sitting on the couch and back porch who were completely cowed with shame. Trying to be "the hero," really just being bullies.


I used to volunteer at house and warehouse shows to be "pit bull," to pull the violent kids out and give them a good talking to. I found that when you yell at them or hit them, they respond with violence and it makes things worse, and their behavior doesn't change. But when you pull them out and quietly talk them down, just explain why their behavior isn't helping...then you see results. They might get carried away a couple more times after that, but eventually learn how to be a little rowdy without hurting other people. How to help people up when the fall instead of knocking them down.

Nonviolence is a lot harder to practice than violence. And you don't see results as quickly. But the results you do see, they last a whole lot longer. Instead of diffusing this situation now, you prevent situations like that from happening in the future. And I'm not talking "pacifism" where just run and hide and don't do jack. I'm talking about standing up for yourself and your friends, with the words. Takes a lot more courage to try to face down an assailant with words than with your fists.


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Djimbe
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14 Dec 2011, 2:13 pm

Burnbridge wrote:
Well, for me, I don't want to react. My muscle memory does it of it's own accord. Sure, it's saved my life a couple of times.


and that in and of itself is enough reason for it to be a valid way to deal with things. Youre still HERE.

Quote:
But I have also completely overreacted to situations that were not life threatening, but looked threatening enough to trigger an involuntary response.


And guess what ? Those people put themselves in that position. I guarantee that they learned a lesson from acting so cavalierly with violence, or even the appearance/threat thereof.

Quote:
Like that singer at the show...not life threatening. If anything, my behavior at that show is going to convince him that he needs to toughen up to become a more effective bully. It's not going to make him stop and reflect on his violent behavior. It just fuels hatred and revenge.


I think youre not always right about this one. I know for a fact that the guys who have been in enough FAIR fights (as in they actually took damage as well) tend to become more and more recalcitrant to throw down as they age. The next time that songer might remember you , and think that the next kid could just be you 2.0 for all he knows. And then, just perhaps, the heated moment will pass.

Quote:
I don't find violence to be an effective way of dealing with problems. I have personally had more success in altering people's behavior by using my words than using my fists. Refusing to play into violent provocation, but still resisting, is incredibly effective.


in 9/10 cases I agree with you completely. The wisdom is in knowing when that 10th case presents itself. I find that to be after the fight has already started. I have spent a lot of time Bouncing and the like, and I find that Im able to talk people down pretty much universally so long as they havent started throwing punches yet.


Quote:
I used to volunteer at house and warehouse shows to be "pit bull," to pull the violent kids out and give them a good talking to. I found that when you yell at them or hit them, they respond with violence and it makes things worse, and their behavior doesn't change. But when you pull them out and quietly talk them down, just explain why their behavior isn't helping...then you see results. They might get carried away a couple more times after that, but eventually learn how to be a little rowdy without hurting other people. How to help people up when the fall instead of knocking them down.

Nonviolence is a lot harder to practice than violence. And you don't see results as quickly. But the results you do see, they last a whole lot longer. Instead of diffusing this situation now, you prevent situations like that from happening in the future. And I'm not talking "pacifism" where just run and hide and don't do jack. I'm talking about standing up for yourself and your friends, with the words. Takes a lot more courage to try to face down an assailant with words than with your fists.


I agree with most of what youre saying, most of the time, but unfortunately everyone does NOT react in the positive to the above treatment. They see your kindness as weakness and it makes them even MORE likely to bully/abuse. Just like we practice neurodiverity on this site , there is quite a bit of it out in the real world as well . And, unfortunately , some dogs wont heel till whipped.


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Last edited by Djimbe on 19 Dec 2011, 5:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

starryeyedvoyager
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15 Dec 2011, 7:10 am

Tell you the truth: I hope I'll never have to find out. I had my share of physical arguments, not many, but all of them don't really classify as fights. It was me realizing the danger of a certain situation, taking the initiative, landing one or two blows, and ending it before it began. Being tall and - since I recently "traded" 30kgs of fat in for about 8Kg of muscle - hulking gives you an edge, since people who are inclined to start picking victims to beat them up are less likely to choose someone who at least looks like he's going to hand their arses to them, but training in any kind of self-defence, martial art, combat sport, whatever, gives you - sooner or later - a certain aura of confidence. It sounds silly and esoteric, but all my masters told me that over their years of training and instructing, the old saying "learning how to fight so you don't have to fight" holds more than just true. I am not an aggressive person, but suggestion through your appearance, body language and attitude that picking a fight with you is a bad idea will keep you safe most of the time.



Djimbe
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19 Dec 2011, 5:53 am

starryeyedvoyager wrote:
Tell you the truth: I hope I'll never have to find out. I had my share of physical arguments, not many, but all of them don't really classify as fights. It was me realizing the danger of a certain situation, taking the initiative, landing one or two blows, and ending it before it began. Being tall and - since I recently "traded" 30kgs of fat in for about 8Kg of muscle - hulking gives you an edge, since people who are inclined to start picking victims to beat them up are less likely to choose someone who at least looks like he's going to hand their arses to them, but training in any kind of self-defence, martial art, combat sport, whatever, gives you - sooner or later - a certain aura of confidence. It sounds silly and esoteric, but all my masters told me that over their years of training and instructing, the old saying "learning how to fight so you don't have to fight" holds more than just true. I am not an aggressive person, but suggestion through your appearance, body language and attitude that picking a fight with you is a bad idea will keep you safe most of the time.


Well stated, my man.


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starryeyedvoyager
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19 Dec 2011, 3:55 pm

Thank you. After all, people are not magnetic. If you are yourself a positive person, you will attract positive person. If you are a negative person, you will attract the scum of humanity.



Djimbe
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19 Dec 2011, 8:03 pm

starryeyedvoyager wrote:
Thank you. After all, people are not magnetic. If you are yourself a positive person, you will attract positive person. If you are a negative person, you will attract the scum of humanity.



Well, i dont know about that. I have found that oftentimes positive people attract negatives looking to take undue advantage of their better natures. There are a lot of posts on this board to that effect and it happens to me like nonstop. Its one of my, if not my greatest weaknesses. I just DONT think like that, so i never see it coming.


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JaeDee
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31 Dec 2011, 8:36 pm

MathGirl wrote:
Yes, I used to always get into brawls and I was physically bullied almost daily.


as was I, i always lost, until i learned the ability to not lose my temper. i have noticed many of us are capable fighters as long as we keep our mood under control. i now do boxing at a local club as a coping thing, ever since i started boxing i no longer become over stimulated and can control my more wild outbursts.


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Fern
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03 Jan 2012, 1:29 am

I am a short gangly female who lives in the city with the highest murder rate in the US for 6 years running. Last year an unmarked van rolled up to me one night as I was walking my dog and slid its door open. When I saw hands reaching out for me I ran like hell, darting through our neighbors' backyards. My dog thankfully got the picture and did the same. That was probably the closest I ever came to actually getting killed.

On another less serious occasion, while at a large pool party several years back, some random guy I don't know just walked up to me while I was standing there in my bikini, grabbed my head and smashed it into a marble table, then climbed ontop of me. At this point I was rather annoyed (and a very drunk as well), so against my better judgement, I rolled over onto my back, choked him out, and sank my teeth into his left ear until he screamed. He struggled for a while, trying to throw himself into stuff hard enough to dislodge me, but eventually he ran out of steam and fell back on the floor. I made him say he was sorry to me... then I made him say sorry to the owner of the table, then I made him say sorry to the girl who came with him to the party. He quickly left after that.

I am normally not a violent person though. It would have been much better for me if I had just run away from that situation as well. When I am intoxicated I get a little carried away with enacting justice I think. I was much younger then...


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0_equals_true
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03 Jan 2012, 3:35 pm

Fern you took absolutely the right action.

I'm a good runner too.

I've done martial arts for a number of years so hopefully it it will put me in good stead. Not necessarily to fight, but I will if I have to. I don't mean that in some sort of fluffy philosophical way purely practical.

The way martial arts could help you in the medium term, is help as a release for pent up frustrations, beeing cool under pressure,give a quiet confidence, and feeling more healthy.

People who wander around looking at the floor, or not in tune with their surroundings are soft targets. I should know it happened to me.

Fighting is about reacting in the moment without thinking. It takes time to get to that.

So short term, you have to take with a pinch of salt, get stuck in and practice. Don't buy into those short term self defense courses. Try doing that with any degree of liveness, ain't going to happen.

Some beginners I've taught have pretty good instincts (the ones that doesn't totally freeze). When you start to teach them they aren't acting instinctively, for some period after.

If someone attacks me, I will receive by engaging, controlling and attacking until they are no longer a threat, and I can safely get out of there. That is what I train for every week.