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lightening020
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12 Dec 2011, 12:35 am

'sides, I just think that "nice guys" weren't taught how to attract women.

When girls can just say "hey I am not interested in you", things will get alot better.

Instead of this calling guys that don't know how to attract girls "creeps" and "weirdos" further bringing them down, how about we just be a bit more honest as a society?

I would rather have a girl insult me turning me down than call me "nice", and keep leading me on telling me they want to be friends.



deconstruction
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12 Dec 2011, 12:42 am

lightening020 wrote:
'sides, I just think that "nice guys" weren't taught how to attract women.

When girls can just say "hey I am not interested in you", things will get alot better.

Instead of this calling guys that don't know how to attract girls "creeps" and "weirdos" further bringing them down, how about we just be a bit more honest as a society?

I would rather have a girl insult me turning me down than call me "nice", and keep leading me on telling me they want to be friends.


But what if she *gasps* WANTS to be your friend? What's wrong about being friends with a girl? I don't know... I feel weird about guys who only want to date girls and never to be their friends.

I want to have a male friend, badly. But they always turn me down. :cry:

Anyway, nobody has to be "taught" how to attract women. I mean, maintaining your hygiene and knowing your boundaries (no touching and grabbing without asking), and that's about it, really. I mean, any other thing you can change about yourself is not really about attracting the girls, it's about changing yourself if you want to.

And I didn't get the part with creeps and weirdos. Do they call you that, or nice? It's NOT the same. Oh, no.



lightening020
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12 Dec 2011, 12:48 am

deconstruction wrote:


I was just trying to say what the "nice guy" means in this context and why there are so many women who claim to like nice guys ignore the guys who are labeled as nice.

Of course it's better to be nice than to be mean. But nice guys who feel rejected and unwanted need to know it's not because of their niceness. Girls don't dislike niceness; it's a positive thing many (dare to say, most of) women desire in a partner. However, it's not enough: a guy has to have a personality you'll fall for besides being nice. And he can't be spineless and ready to be turned into a doormat. This is something many women dislike.[/quote]

Then we need to call it something else, but it is too late for that. Literally speaking, the word "nice" now has negative coloring. "Spineless", "Boring", "Weak", "Needy", "Passive"

Does this make sense? Anyone can be a nice person. An "as*hole" guy who can attract women might really be nice, and not an as*hole. Just because he knows how to pull a few strings and make himself attractive.

This is just plain perversion of these words. How many guys have bought PUA material to learn to try to manipulate women into sex and trying to be a player, when in reality deep down they just want a steady?



deconstruction
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12 Dec 2011, 12:55 am

lightening020 wrote:
This is just plain perversion of these words. How many guys have bought PUA material to learn to try to manipulate women into sex and trying to be a player, when in reality deep down they just want a steady?


No idea. But PUA is disgusting and pathetic, a hundred times more than any negative connotation of the word "nice" can be. When you're labeled as nice, some people might understand that as "spineless" and "weak", but if you're labeled as PUA, that means you're definitely spineless, AND weak, AND pathetic. (Just my opinion, though).



lightening020
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12 Dec 2011, 12:59 am

deconstruction wrote:

But what if she *gasps* WANTS to be your friend? What's wrong about being friends with a girl? I don't know... I feel weird about guys who only want to date girls and never to be their friends.

I want to have a male friend, badly. But they always turn me down. :cry:


Saying you want to be friends with a guy you are turning down is insulting. Even if you haven't YET turned him down, asking to be "friends" WILL BE interpreted by him as rejection.

If he wasn't interested in you romantically, then maybe you could be friends. Otherwise, it is just very painful for a guy.

I tried being "friends" with a couple of girls that friendzoned me. Maybe having a female eye would help me out? Nope. I can't I had to cease contact with them. I lost respect for myself. They were not "friends"



lightening020
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12 Dec 2011, 1:07 am

Ill be your friend Deconstruction. PM if you want to talk about anything.



deconstruction
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12 Dec 2011, 1:11 am

lightening020 wrote:
Saying you want to be friends with a guy you are turning down is insulting. Even if you haven't YET turned him down, asking to be "friends" WILL BE interpreted by him as rejection.

If he wasn't interested in you romantically, then maybe you could be friends. Otherwise, it is just very painful for a guy.

I tried being "friends" with a couple of girls that friendzoned me. Maybe having a female eye would help me out? Nope. I can't I had to cease contact with them. I lost respect for myself. They were not "friends"


Well, obviously, nobody forces you to be friends with someone. I'm just saying that sometimes, a girl will honesty want to be your friend, and you can't hate her for that.

Other times, well... I don't know how to say this. There are some girls who need a constant male attention and who like to surround themselves with guys who are attracted to them. These girls will want a bunch of said guys as "friends", but not because they are interested in true friendship, but because they need someone who admires them, and they know the guy likes them. Needless to say, not ALL (or even MOST) of the girls are like this, but they exist, and you should stay away from these arrangements.

However, often, when a girl wants you to be her friend, she does wants you to be her friend.



SadAspie112
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12 Dec 2011, 1:18 am

girls/women are full of double speak and contradictions. they say one thing and mean the exact opposite.
just be friends is just another way of saying they want nothing to do with you.

women say and do everything based on their emotions. men are less emotional and are far more logical than women. what a man says is usually what he means.



nick007
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12 Dec 2011, 3:04 am

deconstruction wrote:
lightening020 wrote:
Saying you want to be friends with a guy you are turning down is insulting. Even if you haven't YET turned him down, asking to be "friends" WILL BE interpreted by him as rejection.

If he wasn't interested in you romantically, then maybe you could be friends. Otherwise, it is just very painful for a guy.

I tried being "friends" with a couple of girls that friendzoned me. Maybe having a female eye would help me out? Nope. I can't I had to cease contact with them. I lost respect for myself. They were not "friends"


Well, obviously, nobody forces you to be friends with someone. I'm just saying that sometimes, a girl will honesty want to be your friend, and you can't hate her for that.

Other times, well... I don't know how to say this. There are some girls who need a constant male attention and who like to surround themselves with guys who are attracted to them. These girls will want a bunch of said guys as "friends", but not because they are interested in true friendship, but because they need someone who admires them, and they know the guy likes them. Needless to say, not ALL (or even MOST) of the girls are like this, but they exist, and you should stay away from these arrangements.

However, often, when a girl wants you to be her friend, she does wants you to be her friend.

SadAspie112 wrote:
girls/women are full of double speak and contradictions. they say one thing and mean the exact opposite.
just be friends is just another way of saying they want nothing to do with you.

I try to remain friend with girls after I get rejected but most of them end up getting mad at me when I eventually make a comment about liking someone else or trying to find someone. A couple women actually got upset because they had somehow assumed that we were in a relationship or that that we were trying to be more than friends after they had specifically told me that they only liked me as a friend. I get a headache trying to understand stuff like that.


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SadAspie112
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12 Dec 2011, 3:24 am

easy way to avoid rejection is to never ask them out.
online rejection is far easier to deal with than being rejected in person



Az29
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12 Dec 2011, 4:56 am

Tequila wrote:
Sod the blonde, give me the chubby brunette any day. :)


:D The blonde/brunette was just for a more startling comparison, it's a common stereotype that men prefer blondes.

Afr0 wrote:
Unfortunately I think guys tend to focus too much on physical appearance, and girls tend to focus too much on "traits", where good looks is one of the traits and a great personality is another (though a lot of girls are very specific and can break a good personality into multiple traits).


I think the problem is that this is how ALOT of men / women look at potential partners, wheras there are many who don't.

Afr0 wrote:
Not sure about your profile picture, but if that is you, you don't look all that plain to me. Even if you are shy.


That is a picture of me and I consider myself plain but that's my own perception and self confidence issues, deconstruction explained my situation better then I can;

deconstruction wrote:
Many of us look different in photos and plus, in real life, people take other things into account when deciding whether you're attractive or not: your posture, clothes, body language, voice, etc.

I agree, Az29 doesn't look plain, she looks very pretty. But I believe her about being ignored by males. In my experience, guys overlook/ignore pretty girls all the time, and the girls they chase are often (though not always) less pretty than the girls they ignore, imo.


-------------------------------------------------------------


deconstruction wrote:
But what if she *gasps* WANTS to be your friend? What's wrong about being friends with a girl? I don't know... I feel weird about guys who only want to date girls and never to be their friends.

I want to have a male friend, badly. But they always turn me down. :cry:


Also this ^ In my experience guys never wanted to just be friends with me, it always led to them wanting more. When I would decline, stating that just friends was all I wanted that would be it they'd move on. I know it must be awful for guys to get their hopes up that some girl they are friendly with may agree to more then just friendship but what about the other side of that coin? What about us girls who think we've made a male friend only to find out all he wanted was to get in our pants? When we turn him down (after not leading him on) he stops speaking to us. I guess it sucks all around!


SadAspie112 wrote:
girls/women are full of double speak and contradictions. they say one thing and mean the exact opposite.
just be friends is just another way of saying they want nothing to do with you.

women say and do everything based on their emotions. men are less emotional and are far more logical than women. what a man says is usually what he means.


Or maybe she does just want to be friends, I don't know about other women but if I told someone I just wanted to be their friend I would mean that it would not mean 'go away', it would simply mean I do not want a romantic relationship with you. I think it's pretty insulting if a guy would only approach a girl based on wanting a relationship, do guys not want girls who are friends or something? I've heard several times of people who have been friends for years becoming couples, on another forum I use one woman was married and had a male friend, they would hang out alot and when her husband left her, her male friend was really suportive with no pressure of a relationship, he was just a friend. Then a few months later she started seeing him in a different way, considering him as a potential boyfriend and not just a friend, their first baby is due next year. Anyway my point is friendships can lead to relationships but that shouldn't always be the purpose of conversation / interaction. How many girls have told guys they wanted to be friends and the guy has stormed off in a hissy fit and not spoken to her again and he's missed out on what could have been a great friendship.



nick007
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12 Dec 2011, 5:09 am

Az29 wrote:
SadAspie112 wrote:
girls/women are full of double speak and contradictions. they say one thing and mean the exact opposite.
just be friends is just another way of saying they want nothing to do with you.

women say and do everything based on their emotions. men are less emotional and are far more logical than women. what a man says is usually what he means.


Or maybe she does just want to be friends, I don't know about other women but if I told someone I just wanted to be their friend I would mean that it would not mean 'go away', it would simply mean I do not want a romantic relationship with you. I think it's pretty insulting if a guy would only approach a girl based on wanting a relationship, do guys not want girls who are friends or something? I've heard several times of people who have been friends for years becoming couples, on another forum I use one woman was married and had a male friend, they would hang out alot and when her husband left her, her male friend was really suportive with no pressure of a relationship, he was just a friend. Then a few months later she started seeing him in a different way, considering him as a potential boyfriend and not just a friend, their first baby is due next year. Anyway my point is friendships can lead to relationships but that shouldn't always be the purpose of conversation / interaction. How many girls have told guys they wanted to be friends and the guy has stormed off in a hissy fit and not spoken to her again and he's missed out on what could have been a great friendship.

I believe my partner should be my best friend but one issue I have with being friends 1st is that I become interested in the person as more than a friend. I have lost puppy syndrome & I become interested in most any girl who's nice to me after a bit if she's single & interested in guys. But the women tell me they don't like me that way after I know them a bit & it kind of hurts being friends with them; especially when they come to me to complain about how other guys don't treat them rite or how they are single when they are unwilling to give me a chance. It kinda hurts my self-esteem that women who are being treated bad or are very lonely won't consider me boyfriend material because they see me as more like one of their girl friends. I try not to let it get to me but it does when the main time women want to talk to me is when they want emotional support.


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mds_02
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12 Dec 2011, 5:33 am

Az29 wrote:
What about us girls who think we've made a male friend only to find out all he wanted was to get in our pants? When we turn him down (after not leading him on) he stops speaking to us.


Just because a guy wants a romantic relationship and won't settle for less doesn't mean all he wanted was sex. It's painful, sometimes extremely so, to be around someone you want and to know your feelings aren't reciprocated. It's hard to blame a guy for wanting out of that situation.


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Afr0
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12 Dec 2011, 7:25 am

deconstruction wrote:
It's true guys focus on looks way too much, sometimes to the point of ignoring the personality

(...)

I agree, Az29 doesn't look plain, she looks very pretty. But I believe her about being ignored by males. In my experience, guys overlook/ignore pretty girls all the time, and the girls they chase are often (though not always) less pretty than the girls they ignore, imo.


Isn't this a self contradiction?



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12 Dec 2011, 7:28 am

mds_02 wrote:
Az29 wrote:
What about us girls who think we've made a male friend only to find out all he wanted was to get in our pants? When we turn him down (after not leading him on) he stops speaking to us.


Just because a guy wants a romantic relationship and won't settle for less doesn't mean all he wanted was sex. It's painful, sometimes extremely so, to be around someone you want and to know your feelings aren't reciprocated. It's hard to blame a guy for wanting out of that situation.


^

This.



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12 Dec 2011, 8:26 am

it can be equally devastating to lose a person who is believed to be a genuine friend. being a good friend isn't necessarily settling for ''less'', and it's pretty upsetting to feel that person doesn't actually care for you as a person unless they can get romance out of you.


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