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peebo
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09 Jan 2012, 2:24 am

!kung, mbuti pygmies, khoi, inuit peoples among many examples.


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NarcissusSavage
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09 Jan 2012, 5:18 am

I laugh at the irony of the concept of an alpha male in a heirarchy. For if there was one, he would live a life specifically to be such, and in doing so be the one being controlled by the masses, and not the one in control. The only way to the top is to play the game, live the game, and become the game, to the point where there is no longer the you you started as, it has been consumed in the process...

He who lives freely is the true alpha, and you will not find him in elected possitions, for he relents to no force that attempts to persuade or cajole. You will likely find him in the grave, where he chose to go as his last act of freedom in defiance to any opposition.

That is an alpha, if you ask me. Not some elected pondscum.


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peebo
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09 Jan 2012, 1:25 pm

interesting perspective.


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?Civil government, so far as it is instituted for the security of property, is in reality instituted for the defense of the rich against the poor, or of those who have some property against those who have none at all.?

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Saturn
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09 Jan 2012, 5:23 pm

peebo wrote:
!kung, mbuti pygmies, khoi, inuit peoples among many examples.


I'm sorry but I don't have enough personal interest riding on the question of whether or not authority is inherent to civilization to warrant researching the details of some distant cultures to see what is going on there. I can only really talk about the western culture that I know a little bit about. I would be interested if you would like to develop your own view of the question of civilization and authority and trauma as you have been asking a lot of questions and you are obviously thinking about this as a question that concerns you.



Aspiewordsmith
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11 Jul 2015, 8:09 am

Psychoanalysis is bollocks. A lot of Sigmund Freud's techniques were pretty useless and it was really only pretending to empathise with a person. Did you know he has a nephew called Edward Bernays who was a father of a system of allistic bullshit called public relations (PR) it is all pretence and advertisers manipulate society by using psychoanalytical means to buy one product or another or to believe in a certain ideology. He persuaded women to smoke by connecting it with unconscious penis envy in women and told them if they smoked then they would have their own penis. It was to do with making women feel powerful but it was all lies and deceit. This was in a documentary called the century of the self by Adam Curtis.:arrow:



0_equals_true
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11 Jul 2015, 11:42 am

Not a fan of Freud.

The demographic he used for his for his observations was a extremely niche selection of central European upper and middle class people.

Clutching at straws is the best way to describe his ideas. They are very elaborate theories from something ultimately anecdotal, and not empirically determined.

People are easily exploited through it too, spend years on the couch rather than doing something improve their lives.

Also there is also quite a bit that is disputed. Like this idea where have to go back to the subject of repression/regression. Modern approached prove this is not only not always necessary and it can actually make people worse.

It depends on the case, but sometimes the catalyst is long gone. The behaviour they have is a learned cycle than has evolved. Going back to some arbitrary point doesn't on it own break the cycle.

What I don't understand is why he is so revered in some circles, when there have been far better.

I think he was a decent hypnotist, but this didn't mean head actually understood the mind.

For a trained neurologist, his work is very wishy washy.

Also debunked theories like refrigerator mother ultimately stem from his adherents.



AngelRho
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13 Jul 2015, 9:40 pm

0_equals_true wrote:
People are easily exploited through it too, spend years on the couch rather than doing something improve their lives.

I've been in counseling at two different points in my life, have endured several semesters of upper level psych courses, and have had friends in psychology and psychiatry. My main criticism isn't of the techniques or the therapist's mission to actually help people. Because in all honesty, Freudian models, Jungian models, and a whole host of other name therapeutic models really have helped a large number of people. Those models themselves have as a goal to help resolve the problem so, essentially, the patient doesn't have to come back.

In reality and in practice, therapists show little evidence that they ever intend to "cure" anyone. If you and I are talking about something, I can listen, take some notes, and systematically take you through your issues, explore them logically, and hopefully arrive at the single best solution so you never have to see my ugly face and bald head ever again. I'm Dr. Freakin' Phil. In actual practice, therapists know what any businessman knows: Give the client/customer/patient everything they want, solve all their problems, and they won't come back. They don't NEED to come back as long as they're problems have been solved. So once you effect a cure, you lose a repeat customer and now you have to find some other poor sap to pay for your daughter to go to Princeton.

Now, if I were a therapist--I'm NOT, but for the sake of argument--and I did my job really well in basically helping you overcome something, I'd never expect to see you again for that problem. If you like my advice and I'm really helping you, PLEASE come back and we'll talk it out. Otherwise, I don't want to see you again.

The counselors I personally am in contact with from time to time as a friend or acquaintance (as opposed to a client) all have a similar approach: They just let the poor guy talk. They listen and ask questions to guide the client towards arriving at the same conclusion as the therapist without the therapist expressly intervening. It makes it seem like the client solved his own problems without any help, but rather it was the therapist that steered the conversation in the desired direction. I'm not good with that approach. I have the answer, I'm going to give it to you, and you will do EXACTLY AS I SAY, report back to me next week, and we'll monitor and adjust.

Of course, if I actually were a therapist, my approach would probably leave me destitute in a matter of weeks...



aghogday
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14 Jul 2015, 11:51 pm

0_equals_true wrote:
Not a fan of Freud.

The demographic he used for his for his observations was a extremely niche selection of central European upper and middle class people.

Clutching at straws is the best way to describe his ideas. They are very elaborate theories from something ultimately anecdotal, and not empirically determined.

People are easily exploited through it too, spend years on the couch rather than doing something improve their lives.

Also there is also quite a bit that is disputed. Like this idea where have to go back to the subject of repression/regression. Modern approached prove this is not only not always necessary and it can actually make people worse.

It depends on the case, but sometimes the catalyst is long gone. The behaviour they have is a learned cycle than has evolved. Going back to some arbitrary point doesn't on it own break the cycle.

What I don't understand is why he is so revered in some circles, when there have been far better.

I think he was a decent hypnotist, but this didn't mean head actually understood the mind.

For a trained neurologist, his work is very wishy washy.

Also debunked theories like refrigerator mother ultimately stem from his adherents.


While there is no specific form of Autism attributed to lack of nurture in the first few years of life.

There is tons of research over decades that indicate a lack of nurturing in the first few years
of life has negative epigenetic impact on the future ability for reciprocal social communication
as well as much higher risk of mental illness, including the propensity for addiction.

Truly it shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out; just observing common caring
or non-caring parental patterns and the result of that on the offspring from nurturing
mice to cats and dogs to primates to humans; Even aloof cats often reflect their
aloof owners; whereas loving owners have affectionate cats who love to
connect to humans and even others cats; if a territorial animal can be
trained to love in nurturing ways; so can a human
if nurtured early enough in life.

It's all about love
or the lack of
it; and always
will be in terms
of human reciprocal
social communication;
empathy; emotional
contagion
and
human altruism
as well; but anyway
the research spells it out.
The effect and affect of
positive and negative
epigenetics is the real
deal; and counselors
who assess and grade
autistic folks behind
closed doors will
tell ya stories
about
cold
parents who
have little ability
to nurture and love
children with that
touch feely
kind
of love..:)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2682215/

And the study of human behavior also shows that there
may be no way to reverse this once the
brain wiring has not been accomplished
during the first few years of life
in and for nurturing love; in other
words there are no
therapies understood
that currently work;
a common issue
with socio-paths
and border line personality
disorder; often personality
disorders that come from
either a non-nurturing atmosphere,
social abuse; as well as genetic
factors beyond the negative
epigenetic effect of
childhood abuse;
in fact, Tom Insel,
the Director of the
National Institutes of Mental
Health suggests that bullying
in formative years in school can
may be the epigenetic impact leading
to schizophrenic genes of propensity
for that disorder coming to epigenetic
fruition
as well; years
later; LOVE
counts more
than a Love song;
and THAT IS A FACT
now IN MODERN SCIENCE.


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cathylynn
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15 Jul 2015, 12:09 am

i had a psychoanalytically trained psychiatrist who also prescribed meds. i got some good insights by working with him. it was annoying, however, that he was always waiting for that transference call that never came.