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ruveyn
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16 Jan 2012, 8:04 pm

WilliamWDelaney wrote:
Zuckerman.


You mean the Facebook Guy. Facebook is a trivial computer app. It is no scientific innovation. The quantum physics behind atomic clocks is., In addition to having the government screwing up the quality of our schools, an expansion of innovation abroad (which is actually a Good Thing) has diminished the preeminence of the U.S. in matters scientific and technological. Expect to see more done in China and India for example. The was a time when the U.S could have given its competition a good race, but that time is passing away.

Our future is State sponsored mediocrity.

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WilliamWDelaney
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16 Jan 2012, 8:48 pm

ruveyn wrote:
WilliamWDelaney wrote:
Zuckerman.


You mean the Facebook Guy. Facebook is a trivial computer app.
It made Zuckerman a billionaire, and it played a role in the Arab Spring uprisings. It is hardly trivial.

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It is no scientific innovation.
You said "technological innovation," which things like Facebook, iPhones etc. are.

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The quantum physics behind atomic clocks is.
Actually, that's scientific discovery, not innovation. Some exciting stuff has been happening in that area lately, by the way.

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In addition to having the government screwing up the quality of our schools,
Fortunately, we've seen some positive developments in the application of educational technology over the past decade, especially those that are useful for distance learning. Distance learning was once a considerably inferior means of instruction, but late developments such as Elluminate, for example, have brought direct teacher-student interaction a long way. In some ways, some of the better technologies provide more individual teacher-student interaction than face-to-face contact.

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Our future is State sponsored mediocrity.
The thing is, you never seem to offer up any alternative except for a hopeless, flawed and, quite frankly, rather obtuse ideology.



ruveyn
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16 Jan 2012, 9:33 pm

WilliamWDelaney wrote:
Our future is State sponsored mediocrity.
The thing is, you never seem to offer up any alternative except for a hopeless, flawed and, quite frankly, rather obtuse ideology.[/quote]

Restore the economy to what it was between 1955 and 1975. Those were 20 Good Years of innovation. We grew computers and microchips in those good years. The debt was more or less under control and there were some aspirations to do Great Things. Our space program also grew in that interval. It was a very exciting time, and we have not seen its like since, oh, the 1980s.

Actually our very best time was between 1870 and 1920 when our country truly moved into the 20 th century. That was from telegraphs to telephone and t.v. That was a time of all sorts of progress, technological as well as scientific. In that interval quantum physics was invented, relativity theory and the basis of solid state physics was laid down. Radar was invented in that time period too. There were even the first primitive approximations to semi-conductors in that period. During that fifty year time period, physics was stood on its head and technology bloomed as it has never done since. It was going from oil lanterns to electric lights and electronics all in a single lifetime. You might say the modern age was born in that interval.

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WilliamWDelaney
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17 Jan 2012, 9:13 am

ruveyn wrote:
Restore the economy to what it was between 1955 and 1975. Those were 20 Good Years of innovation.
Image

With what policies? The high tax rate or the expanding influence of the government over people's lives?

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We grew computers and microchips in those good years.
My great uncle was involved in it, actually. He was in the trenches for IBM back in the day. Made him filthy rich.

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The debt was more or less under control
Like it was under Clinton?

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and there were some aspirations to do Great Things.
Like building the information superhighway? Wait, that was later.

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Our space program also grew in that interval.
You mean you were discovering Earth-like planets? Wait, that didn't start until a few years ago. Excuse me, I just have trouble keeping my decades straight. Old age creeping up on me.

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It was a very exciting time,
The only thing you really accomplished was an all-volunteer military, which some of us are doubting the wisdom of.

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and we have not seen its like since, oh, the 1980s.
The 1980s was when everything went to Hell, wasn't it? Reagan really was an as*hole.

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Actually our very best time was between 1870 and 1920 when our country truly moved into the 20 th century.
An economic bubble.

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That was from telegraphs to telephone and t.v.
It's amazing that literacy has survived.

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That was a time of all sorts of progress, technological as well as scientific.
If only you could grasp the distinction.

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In that interval quantum physics was invented,
I'm glad to know that you can invent a scientific principle.

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relativity theory and the basis of solid state physics was laid down. Radar was invented in that time period too. There were even the first primitive approximations to semi-conductors in that period. During that fifty year time period, physics was stood on its head and technology bloomed as it has never done since.
The advancements of the early 19th Century were more interesting, and the only people who ever stood physics on its head were Albert Michaelson and Edward Morley. Scientific advancement virtually languished from them until the 1990s. I acknowledge there were some minor discoveries during the intervening period, most of them on par with parlor tricks.

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It was going from oil lanterns to electric lights and electronics all in a single lifetime.
I say we took a step backward when we stopped using gas more widely. Electric heating sucks. Electric dryers leave your clothes dingy. Electric lights make an annoying whirring sound. The technology is overrated.

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You might say the modern age was born in that interval.
During which you had two world wars, Vietnam and myriad other embarrassing developments.

I say we've slowed down considerably since the 1990s, though. In those days, we built computer systems by candlelight, and a good tech wizard could put together a good server for an office building if you gave him a hair-dryer, a broken television set and some old-fashioned duct tape. It's a weaker breed running things today. I'll have you know that, back in my day, a good hacker could hack his way into the FBI files. Kids today could never do that! And we did it all over a slow, old-fashioned dial-up connection, run out of a tiny, windowless office lit with magnetic-backed fluorescent lighting that emitted dingy flicker when it worked!

And we didn't have money in those days for central heating. You kept your hands warm enough to type with a lit cigarette! That's how real men do it! Our society has gone downhill since the cigarette went out of fashion. I think that men fail to develop their testicles without a healthy regimen of nicotine. And we didn't need your organic produce: we lived on Pop-Tarts and ramen noodles. BECAUSE THAT WAS ALL WE COULD AFFORD! Take that, you cocky, young brats! It's no wonder old Steve Jobs died. He must have died of shame. You kids have a long way to go, and I don't see you getting there.



Last edited by WilliamWDelaney on 17 Jan 2012, 9:42 am, edited 2 times in total.

ruveyn
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17 Jan 2012, 9:30 am

WilliamWDelaney wrote:

And we didn't have money in those days for central heating. You kept your hands warm enough to type with a lit cigarette! That's how real men do it! Our society has gone downhill since the cigarette went out of fashion. I think that men fail to develop their testicles without a healthy regimen of nicotine. We didn't need your organic produce: we lived on Pop-Tarts and ramen noodles. BECAUSE THAT WAS ALL WE COULD AFFORD! Take that, you cocky, young brats! It's no wonder old Steve Jobs died. He must have died of shame.


This may come as a shock to you, but computers and software are no longer the bleeding edge of technology. The real revolution is occurring in molecular biology and in genetics. Computers will play a useful role in such developments (as any useful tool should) but they will not be at the heart of revolutionary changes in outlook and thinking.

Computers are now a commodity and a tool. The Gee Whiz age of Computers and computation is passed with the possible exception of genuine useful quantum computers. That would be a revolution and a half.

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WilliamWDelaney
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17 Jan 2012, 9:36 am

ruveyn wrote:
This may come as a shock to you, but computers and software are no longer the bleeding edge of technology. The real revolution is occurring in molecular biology and in genetics.
I'm already sizing up a graduate school to study exactly that ;). In fact, I've impressed a few top-rated professors with some of my ideas about the interactions between the immune system, the gastrointestinal tract and the central nervous system.

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Computers will play a useful role in such developments (as any useful tool should) but they will not be at the heart of revolutionary changes in outlook and thinking.
Except perhaps the Arab Spring uprisings, the progress of Chinese democracy and the eventual overthrow of theocracy in Iran.

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Computers are now a commodity and a tool. The Gee Whiz age of Computers and computation is passed
So you haven't kept up with late developments in wireless technology. We're still unlocking new advances.

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with the possible exception of genuine useful quantum computers. That would be a revolution and a half.
Overrated.



ruveyn
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17 Jan 2012, 10:48 am

WilliamWDelaney wrote:

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with the possible exception of genuine useful quantum computers. That would be a revolution and a half.
Overrated.


An 87 q-bit computer has solved the Ramsey two color function for a large number of values. This is very heavy duty computation. If quantum computing pans out it will be a Revolution in computation. Only time will tell.

The other Major Major Breakthough if it ever happens will be controlled nuclear fusion. The end of the Energy Crises will then be at hand. I am not betting heavily that this will come through.

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WilliamWDelaney
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17 Jan 2012, 10:53 am

ruveyn wrote:
WilliamWDelaney wrote:

Quote:
with the possible exception of genuine useful quantum computers. That would be a revolution and a half.
Overrated.


An 87 q-bit computer has solved the Ramsey two color function for a large number of values. This is very heavy duty computation. If quantum computing pans out it will be a Revolution in computation. Only time will tell.
Amounts to little! HAHAHA! You cannot win!

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The other Major Major Breakthough if it ever happens will be controlled nuclear fusion.
No, what we really need is better energy storage technology.



ruveyn
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17 Jan 2012, 12:33 pm

WilliamWDelaney wrote:
]No, what we really need is better energy storage technology.


We are more likely to get a better battery than controlled fusion. Hydrogen fuel cells are promising, but there is little free hydrogen (it is very reactive) to get the hydrogen we need for the fuel cells we need to break down water (of which there is plenty). But that requires energy. Chicken and Egg.

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WilliamWDelaney
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17 Jan 2012, 1:09 pm

ruveyn wrote:
WilliamWDelaney wrote:
]No, what we really need is better energy storage technology.


We are more likely to get a better battery than controlled fusion.
"But this past fall, physicists at NIF, based at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory in California, made an important advance with their elaborate building and enormous laser: They fired 121 kilojoules of ultraviolet light into the $3.5 billion facility's target chamber, causing deuterium and tritium nuclei to fuse into helium atoms, releasing 300 trillion high-energy neutrons. Even though NIF and other labs have created fusion before, the achievement brings researchers a step closer to conquering the ultimate challenge: a fusion reaction that produces more energy than is required to start it."

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science ... y-for-real

We're slogging along. Fusion is really not practical in the foreseeable future, and there are going to be hang-ups and half-measures along the way. It's not something that is going to come about by immaculate conception overnight.