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CoMF
Deinonychus
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27 Apr 2012, 3:09 pm

simon_says wrote:
The far left and I don't usually get along. The world is violent and I approve of proportionate violence in return. But the far right is made up of no thought trogs. I'm embarrassed for them and just try to bite my tongue. They don't really rate the time it takes to engage them.


Speaking only for myself, my disdain for the most ardent leftists or rightists stems from their lack of intellectual honesty more than anything else.



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27 Apr 2012, 4:00 pm

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Well I don't necessarily get along with all leftish-leaning people. I'm mainly thinking of the stereotypical artsy/bohemian hippy types. I have nothing against them personally, but I couldn't really live with one. I just can't deal with their messiness, clutter, and noise. I need a clean and peaceful space to retreat to.

I notice on those personality tests liberals supposedly score higher on "openness" while conservatives score higher on "conscientiousness". I score very high on both categories.


Good thing you don't live with me! My wife and I would drive you out of your head (unintentionally) in no time. :lol:
And that's not even mentioning my little daughter, who's a bohemian in training!

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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27 Apr 2012, 4:19 pm

CoMF wrote:
Speaking only for myself, my disdain for the most ardent leftists or rightists stems from their lack of intellectual honesty more than anything else.


That sounds about right.


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27 Apr 2012, 4:22 pm

I've had other liberals express shock to learn I was one, they said I seemed so conventional - whatever that means. But I wouldn't say they don't like me. They just don't recognize me until the discussion is on politics. I'm not 100% liberal. There are a few things I'm more conservative about. But I mostly think of myself as a social democrat, and actually fairly progressive in my views.

I see capitalism in particular as a huge FAIL, except for a few wealthy people who have benefited greatly from the failures and poverty of others.



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27 Apr 2012, 4:28 pm

marshall wrote:
I've long ago given up trying to disavow myself of ideological labels. If people want to label me I have no choice but to be a stinking "liberal". However, just because I arrived at many of the same conclusions as a certain politically identified group doesn't mean my opinions were not arrived at through independent thought.


I was mostly kidding there, I am married to a liberal after all, a self described radical feminist one at that!

My beef is with the partisans, the "my side right or wrong" people who never really question anything so long as it comes from or supports their chosen "side". My further beef is with the mass generalizations said partisans make, especially when they convey falsehoods about myself and/or people I know.


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CoMF
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27 Apr 2012, 4:59 pm

Dox47 wrote:
I was mostly kidding there, I am married to a liberal after all, a self described radical feminist one at that!


That's nothing. My girlfriend of three years is a libertarian socialist who used to be really active in the NYC punk scene. Our conversations certainly help me to keep things in perspective. :)



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27 Apr 2012, 5:00 pm

CoMF wrote:
Master_Pedant wrote:
How do you get along with union workers?


How do you get along with Black Bloc-ers?


There have been no Black Bloc protests where I live, so I can't say.


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27 Apr 2012, 5:03 pm

SpiritBlooms wrote:
I've had other liberals express shock to learn I was one, they said I seemed so conventional - whatever that means. But I wouldn't say they don't like me. They just don't recognize me until the discussion is on politics. I'm not 100% liberal. There are a few things I'm more conservative about. But I mostly think of myself as a social democrat, and actually fairly progressive in my views.

I see capitalism in particular as a huge FAIL, except for a few wealthy people who have benefited greatly from the failures and poverty of others.


I've had the same problem, especially back in my college days. One class I took called Myth , Magic, And Ritual (which is just a jazzed up way to say Primitive Religions), where I was deemed the "class conservative," even though constantly was having to tell everyone that I was nothing of the sort. While in an Anthropology class, one guy who I had become friendly with, who was a self described conservative, had been surprised when I had told him I was a liberal. He had honestly thought I was conservative like him! It might have been because I have a tendency to walk ramrod straight, which had caused a friend in a history class to ask if I was former military. I am not.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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27 Apr 2012, 5:24 pm

marshall wrote:
Master_Pedant wrote:
marshall wrote:
Well I don't necessarily get along with all leftish-leaning people. I'm mainly thinking of the stereotypical artsy/bohemian hippy types. I have nothing against them personally, but I couldn't really live with one. I just can't deal with their messiness, clutter, and noise. I need a clean and peaceful space to retreat to.

I notice on those personality tests liberals supposedly score higher on "openness" while conservatives score higher on "conscientiousness". I score very high on both categories.


How do you get along with union workers?


You mean gruff, uncultured, beer guzzling, knuckle dragging proles (as Ruveyn would say). :P J/K.


I would think anal-rententive bureaucrats score high on "conscientiousness", which demonstrates the mind-blowing socio-cultural transcending-ness of that group.


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27 Apr 2012, 8:10 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
SpiritBlooms wrote:
I've had other liberals express shock to learn I was one, they said I seemed so conventional - whatever that means. But I wouldn't say they don't like me. They just don't recognize me until the discussion is on politics. I'm not 100% liberal. There are a few things I'm more conservative about. But I mostly think of myself as a social democrat, and actually fairly progressive in my views.

I see capitalism in particular as a huge FAIL, except for a few wealthy people who have benefited greatly from the failures and poverty of others.


I've had the same problem, especially back in my college days. One class I took called Myth , Magic, And Ritual (which is just a jazzed up way to say Primitive Religions), where I was deemed the "class conservative," even though constantly was having to tell everyone that I was nothing of the sort. While in an Anthropology class, one guy who I had become friendly with, who was a self described conservative, had been surprised when I had told him I was a liberal. He had honestly thought I was conservative like him! It might have been because I have a tendency to walk ramrod straight, which had caused a friend in a history class to ask if I was former military. I am not.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Similar for me. Although I very much support Green politics and its various national parties, I am rather turned off by the "new-age" aspects of the supporters. Being a skeptical, tea-totalling, borderline obsessive-compulsive, controlling science student make me a bit unusual. I don't know much about the more radical left, but I suspect that the same issues would apply.



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27 Apr 2012, 8:23 pm

AstroGeek wrote:
Although I very much support Green politics and its various national parties, I am rather turned off by the "new-age" aspects of the supporters.


No matter which "team" you join, it is always the case that a lot of the people in the team are there for "the wrong reasons". When political organisations try to restrict themselves to people who are there for "the right reasons", they become incestuous and irrelevant. Sad but true.

If you're a leftie, you have to socialise with conspiracy theorists. If you're worried about Islam, you have to socialise with racists. If you're a greenie, you have to socialise with hippies. If you're an atheist, you have to socialise with hipsters.



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20 May 2012, 6:56 pm

Declension wrote:
AstroGeek wrote:
Although I very much support Green politics and its various national parties, I am rather turned off by the "new-age" aspects of the supporters.


No matter which "team" you join, it is always the case that a lot of the people in the team are there for "the wrong reasons". When political organisations try to restrict themselves to people who are there for "the right reasons", they become incestuous and irrelevant. Sad but true.

If you're a leftie, you have to socialise with conspiracy theorists. If you're worried about Islam, you have to socialise with racists. If you're a greenie, you have to socialise with hippies. If you're an atheist, you have to socialise with hipsters.


Brilliant. There are difficult, shallow people in every party and organization, and lots of 'em. Hard to find like minded people.

I don't know about the incestuous remark- what do you mean by that?



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20 May 2012, 8:06 pm

CaptainTrips222 wrote:
Declension wrote:
AstroGeek wrote:
Although I very much support Green politics and its various national parties, I am rather turned off by the "new-age" aspects of the supporters.


No matter which "team" you join, it is always the case that a lot of the people in the team are there for "the wrong reasons". When political organisations try to restrict themselves to people who are there for "the right reasons", they become incestuous and irrelevant. Sad but true.

If you're a leftie, you have to socialise with conspiracy theorists. If you're worried about Islam, you have to socialise with racists. If you're a greenie, you have to socialise with hippies. If you're an atheist, you have to socialise with hipsters.


Brilliant. There are difficult, shallow people in every party and organization, and lots of 'em. Hard to find like minded people.

I don't know about the incestuous remark- what do you mean by that?

I interpreted it to mean that they'd only hear the same old opinions. This is a recipe for stagnation of thought, which causes a party to become irrelevant. For example, look at the Socialist Labour Party in England. It seems to consist of Old Labour supporters and union members. As such it lives in the '70s and is incapable of responding to the challenges of the 21st century. For that reason it has become obsolete and been replaced by parties such as Respect and the Greens (although I'd say that Respect more exploits 21st century problems than offers solutions).



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20 May 2012, 9:39 pm

AstroGeek wrote:
CaptainTrips222 wrote:
Declension wrote:
AstroGeek wrote:
Although I very much support Green politics and its various national parties, I am rather turned off by the "new-age" aspects of the supporters.


No matter which "team" you join, it is always the case that a lot of the people in the team are there for "the wrong reasons". When political organisations try to restrict themselves to people who are there for "the right reasons", they become incestuous and irrelevant. Sad but true.

If you're a leftie, you have to socialise with conspiracy theorists. If you're worried about Islam, you have to socialise with racists. If you're a greenie, you have to socialise with hippies. If you're an atheist, you have to socialise with hipsters.


Brilliant. There are difficult, shallow people in every party and organization, and lots of 'em. Hard to find like minded people.

I don't know about the incestuous remark- what do you mean by that?

I interpreted it to mean that they'd only hear the same old opinions. This is a recipe for stagnation of thought, which causes a party to become irrelevant. For example, look at the Socialist Labour Party in England. It seems to consist of Old Labour supporters and union members. As such it lives in the '70s and is incapable of responding to the challenges of the 21st century. For that reason it has become obsolete and been replaced by parties such as Respect and the Greens (although I'd say that Respect more exploits 21st century problems than offers solutions).


Oh, okay. Homogenized people insulating themselves.



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21 May 2012, 8:42 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
I've had the same problem, especially back in my college days. One class I took called Myth , Magic, And Ritual (which is just a jazzed up way to say Primitive Religions), where I was deemed the "class conservative," even though constantly was having to tell everyone that I was nothing of the sort. While in an Anthropology class, one guy who I had become friendly with, who was a self described conservative, had been surprised when I had told him I was a liberal. He had honestly thought I was conservative like him! It might have been because I have a tendency to walk ramrod straight, which had caused a friend in a history class to ask if I was former military. I am not.

Besides walking in goosestep formation, was there anything else that may seem to indicate to others, including conservatives themselves, that you are conservative? What about your style of dress? I've noticed young conservatives tend to either wear plaid (not like hipsters, though) or dress in suits or other formal attire with short-cropped hair. Their appearance and attitude are more "conventional" by far than needed for the situation, especially if young. What about taste in music, movies, and other entertainment?



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21 May 2012, 10:28 am

NeantHumain wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I've had the same problem, especially back in my college days. One class I took called Myth , Magic, And Ritual (which is just a jazzed up way to say Primitive Religions), where I was deemed the "class conservative," even though constantly was having to tell everyone that I was nothing of the sort. While in an Anthropology class, one guy who I had become friendly with, who was a self described conservative, had been surprised when I had told him I was a liberal. He had honestly thought I was conservative like him! It might have been because I have a tendency to walk ramrod straight, which had caused a friend in a history class to ask if I was former military. I am not.

Besides walking in goosestep formation, was there anything else that may seem to indicate to others, including conservatives themselves, that you are conservative? What about your style of dress? I've noticed young conservatives tend to either wear plaid (not like hipsters, though) or dress in suits or other formal attire with short-cropped hair. Their appearance and attitude are more "conventional" by far than needed for the situation, especially if young. What about taste in music, movies, and other entertainment?

I do think sometimes it's style of dress. I'm fairly modest in dress - though I wasn't quite as much when I was younger. Most definitely not formal, though, we're both casual dressers, and we buy our clothing on the cheap, t-shirts and jeans, etc. My SO wears his hair very short but more for health reasons than anything else. But in our case I think it's also the town we live in, which is small and widely known to be ultra-conservative or at least to have harbored an ultra-conservative and even racist mind set in the past. Whether one is liberal or conservative, one tends to assume that anyone else living here is conservative until one knows better. So it's more the setting than personal appearance.