Autism in France: Psychoanalysis, Packing, Other Travesties

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traven
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31 Dec 2018, 2:42 am

lots of bollocks, houray

But the medical lobby is well imbedded- in bed with politics-
scandals erupting every year, imho the med sectr is a big thing on the gdp-meter, so interventions are obligated for the sake of chemical-medical survival of the fittest corporate toxin-producers

Things like this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Kouchner (check the french, there's no scandals on the english, (eg, organ-trafficing from kosovo)(unmentionned; med dumping disguised as med-aid)
whatever, this?? shows again, having done wrong s**t never holds back from the next golden position
/ was with the clintons in kosovo--ouf* all's well then 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)



KeepOn
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16 Apr 2019, 3:53 am

KevinsWither wrote:
I will like to say in defense that most countries around the world only are starting to have some idea of what Aspergers/Autism is. In my origin country, it isn't known well at all. Just remember that we are at the forefront.


America has too much reliance on ABA which can often be very cruel and oppressive in itself. I think countries like Britain, Sweden and the Netherlands are ahead.



synack
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15 Dec 2019, 3:05 am

Anyone living in France who could share some tips with me/us about the process of diagnosis in France?

I'm very curious and quite in a hurry as I want this to be done as soon as possible, and what I find on the interwebs is not entirely conclusive.

What do you think of the process? I was briefly explained and found it quite robust (they not only ask you but your family members and close family/friends). It seems that it takes a lot of time too - is it still the case?

I have another option for diagnosis in Switzerland (I live nearby) but it costs much more and I would have to cross fingers they take me because I am not a swiss resident.

Any feedback appreciated.



Lindsey1151
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22 Dec 2019, 11:04 am

KeepOn wrote:
KevinsWither wrote:
I will like to say in defense that most countries around the world only are starting to have some idea of what Aspergers/Autism is. In my origin country, it isn't known well at all. Just remember that we are at the forefront.


America has too much reliance on ABA which can often be very cruel and oppressive in itself. I think countries like Britain, Sweden and the Netherlands are ahead.

Yes I totally believe autism is more accepted in the UK then the states. But it is a bit more accepted in liberal cities like NYC and San Francisco then small towns and southern cities like Virginia Beach VA. Where I live is very big on ABA and they really push it here even for the high functioning autistic people.



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22 Dec 2019, 12:29 pm

Lindsey1151 wrote:
KeepOn wrote:
KevinsWither wrote:
I will like to say in defense that most countries around the world only are starting to have some idea of what Aspergers/Autism is. In my origin country, it isn't known well at all. Just remember that we are at the forefront.


America has too much reliance on ABA which can often be very cruel and oppressive in itself. I think countries like Britain, Sweden and the Netherlands are ahead.

Yes I totally believe autism is more accepted in the UK then the states. But it is a bit more accepted in liberal cities like NYC and San Francisco then small towns and southern cities like Virginia Beach VA. Where I live is very big on ABA and they really push it here even for the high functioning autistic people.


ABA is the “gold standard” treatment pretty much everywhere in America.

Rural people are sometimes more accepting of eccentricities. An an example is Donald Triplett the first person diagnosed with Autism. In his very rural community he has always been liked, accepted, accommodated, and protected. Just because liberal sophisticated people use the language of acceptance and diversity compared with dated, racist terminology the “hicks” us does not men the sophisticates ar mor accepting in attitude or action, often the opposite is the case.

The UK is a prime example of look at what I do, not what I say.
Exclusion Of Autistics From School Rising Sharply In England
GPs In England Urged To Keep Register Of Autistics
Some Autistic Youths Detained In UK In 'Horrific' Conditions
I have also posted an article discussing the triage system of diagnosing due to austerity.


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15 Jan 2021, 2:44 pm

I've only heard about France's record when it comes to autism from this tumblr post and it looks like the full picture is a lot worse than that...


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Iphone31966
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17 Jan 2021, 9:14 pm

United states sucks. United states is in the dark ages.



ThatGoofyGuy
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01 Feb 2021, 10:14 am

NaturalEntity wrote:
I've only heard about France's record when it comes to autism from this tumblr post and it looks like the full picture is a lot worse than that...


"(...) Meanwhile, French autistic children are being forcefully removed from their parents and shoved into freezers. Some of them has died in these freezers."

I'm French and I never heard of this. I'm not saying this never happened but I didn't find any source about this on the internet.

"The ones who survived has been forced to live in sh***y psych wards for the rest of their lives."

Sadly, psychatric hospitals are known to be absolutley horrible in France. Psychiatrists complain that those hospitals recieve less money than any other kind of hospitals. On top of that, for years the State has been spending less and less money on the health system as a whole and psychiatric hospitals has been the first to suffer from that policy. This money issue, plus the obsolete views of French "psy" lead to really bad health care towards autists in particular and anyone suffering from mental illness in general.

"French autistic children are not allowed in public school and the vast majority of autistic adults are unemployed because of job discrimination."

It's a bit more complicated, but just as terrible. In theory they can. Within Public School there are specialised structures for children with mental illness, or physical handicap. Children can have a "personnal assistant" called "AVS" when need be. But that's the theory. In order to reduce the costs, children with various problems are put into the SAME classroom, which means kids with TSA would find themselves with kids with completly different problems (both mental and physical), and the teacher will rarely recieve the right professional education. As for the "AVS" those are basically badly paid jobs which don't require a real diploma. So the quality of the "AVS" and of the teacher will depend on their own involvement. And since even that seems to be too expensive for the State, there aren't enough structures within the Public School for all the children who need them. Sometimes parents don't obtain any "AVS" for their kid either. As a result, some parents just can't send their children to Public School. The thing is by not doing any effort into taking care of those children, the State is actually breaking the law. This is a huge scandal, and there are parents who are litteraly spending their lives fighting it.



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01 Feb 2021, 12:04 pm

ThatGoofyGuy wrote:
NaturalEntity wrote:
I've only heard about France's record when it comes to autism from this tumblr post and it looks like the full picture is a lot worse than that...


"(...) Meanwhile, French autistic children are being forcefully removed from their parents and shoved into freezers. Some of them has died in these freezers."

I'm French and I never heard of this. I'm not saying this never happened but I didn't find any source about this on the internet.

"The ones who survived has been forced to live in sh***y psych wards for the rest of their lives."

Sadly, psychatric hospitals are known to be absolutley horrible in France. Psychiatrists complain that those hospitals recieve less money than any other kind of hospitals. On top of that, for years the State has been spending less and less money on the health system as a whole and psychiatric hospitals has been the first to suffer from that policy. This money issue, plus the obsolete views of French "psy" lead to really bad health care towards autists in particular and anyone suffering from mental illness in general.

"French autistic children are not allowed in public school and the vast majority of autistic adults are unemployed because of job discrimination."

It's a bit more complicated, but just as terrible. In theory they can. Within Public School there are specialised structures for children with mental illness, or physical handicap. Children can have a "personnal assistant" called "AVS" when need be. But that's the theory. In order to reduce the costs, children with various problems are put into the SAME classroom, which means kids with TSA would find themselves with kids with completly different problems (both mental and physical), and the teacher will rarely recieve the right professional education. As for the "AVS" those are basically badly paid jobs which don't require a real diploma. So the quality of the "AVS" and of the teacher will depend on their own involvement. And since even that seems to be too expensive for the State, there aren't enough structures within the Public School for all the children who need them. Sometimes parents don't obtain any "AVS" for their kid either. As a result, some parents just can't send their children to Public School. The thing is by not doing any effort into taking care of those children, the State is actually breaking the law. This is a huge scandal, and there are parents who are litteraly spending their lives fighting it.

Very sorry to hear that is still going on.

How is it for the mild/high functioning/Aspie type autistic in France?


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DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity.

“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman


ThatGoofyGuy
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01 Feb 2021, 3:10 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
ThatGoofyGuy wrote:
NaturalEntity wrote:
I've only heard about France's record when it comes to autism from this tumblr post and it looks like the full picture is a lot worse than that...


"(...) Meanwhile, French autistic children are being forcefully removed from their parents and shoved into freezers. Some of them has died in these freezers."

I'm French and I never heard of this. I'm not saying this never happened but I didn't find any source about this on the internet.

"The ones who survived has been forced to live in sh***y psych wards for the rest of their lives."

Sadly, psychatric hospitals are known to be absolutley horrible in France. Psychiatrists complain that those hospitals recieve less money than any other kind of hospitals. On top of that, for years the State has been spending less and less money on the health system as a whole and psychiatric hospitals has been the first to suffer from that policy. This money issue, plus the obsolete views of French "psy" lead to really bad health care towards autists in particular and anyone suffering from mental illness in general.

"French autistic children are not allowed in public school and the vast majority of autistic adults are unemployed because of job discrimination."

It's a bit more complicated, but just as terrible. In theory they can. Within Public School there are specialised structures for children with mental illness, or physical handicap. Children can have a "personnal assistant" called "AVS" when need be. But that's the theory. In order to reduce the costs, children with various problems are put into the SAME classroom, which means kids with TSA would find themselves with kids with completly different problems (both mental and physical), and the teacher will rarely recieve the right professional education. As for the "AVS" those are basically badly paid jobs which don't require a real diploma. So the quality of the "AVS" and of the teacher will depend on their own involvement. And since even that seems to be too expensive for the State, there aren't enough structures within the Public School for all the children who need them. Sometimes parents don't obtain any "AVS" for their kid either. As a result, some parents just can't send their children to Public School. The thing is by not doing any effort into taking care of those children, the State is actually breaking the law. This is a huge scandal, and there are parents who are litteraly spending their lives fighting it.

Very sorry to hear that is still going on.

How is it for the mild/high functioning/Aspie type autistic in France?


I am not diagnosed, I'm just starting to wonder if I migth be aspie myself, and I've not started the whole process. My own experience might not be relevant. All I know from the information I red on the internet is that the process of being diagnosed seems to be long and that, apparently many French psychiatrist would only identify the most "canonical" cases. You know, children enable to communicate at all for example. Apsies and other variant of TSA traits would likley go "under the radar". But, as I wrote, I'm only starting my investigations.



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05 Feb 2021, 12:03 pm

ThatGoofyGuy wrote:
NaturalEntity wrote:
I've only heard about France's record when it comes to autism from this tumblr post and it looks like the full picture is a lot worse than that...


"(...) Meanwhile, French autistic children are being forcefully removed from their parents and shoved into freezers. Some of them has died in these freezers."

I'm French and I never heard of this. I'm not saying this never happened but I didn't find any source about this on the internet.

"The ones who survived has been forced to live in sh***y psych wards for the rest of their lives."

Sadly, psychatric hospitals are known to be absolutley horrible in France. Psychiatrists complain that those hospitals recieve less money than any other kind of hospitals. On top of that, for years the State has been spending less and less money on the health system as a whole and psychiatric hospitals has been the first to suffer from that policy. This money issue, plus the obsolete views of French "psy" lead to really bad health care towards autists in particular and anyone suffering from mental illness in general.

"French autistic children are not allowed in public school and the vast majority of autistic adults are unemployed because of job discrimination."

It's a bit more complicated, but just as terrible. In theory they can. Within Public School there are specialised structures for children with mental illness, or physical handicap. Children can have a "personnal assistant" called "AVS" when need be. But that's the theory. In order to reduce the costs, children with various problems are put into the SAME classroom, which means kids with TSA would find themselves with kids with completly different problems (both mental and physical), and the teacher will rarely recieve the right professional education. As for the "AVS" those are basically badly paid jobs which don't require a real diploma. So the quality of the "AVS" and of the teacher will depend on their own involvement. And since even that seems to be too expensive for the State, there aren't enough structures within the Public School for all the children who need them. Sometimes parents don't obtain any "AVS" for their kid either. As a result, some parents just can't send their children to Public School. The thing is by not doing any effort into taking care of those children, the State is actually breaking the law. This is a huge scandal, and there are parents who are litteraly spending their lives fighting it.

Thank you for clearing things up for me. I had a teaching assistant or TA in primary school ,the equivalent of an AVS, but at times she wasn't helpful and ignored what I said. I can't believe your government would do that. It's honestly disgusting.


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ThatGoofyGuy
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05 Feb 2021, 2:13 pm

Wel, most of I wrote is common knowledge here. About the whole process of diagnosis I'm currently speaking with French people. Apparently, the whole process is extremly long. I've just red that it is taking 2 to 5 years. I wnder if it is the same in other countries. Being independant and all, I wonder if it's really usefull to go through all this myself. I'm not even sure that I have autism. I just know that I've something undiagnosed that made the first decades of my life rather difficult. :lol:



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05 Feb 2021, 2:27 pm

ThatGoofyGuy wrote:
Wel, most of I wrote is common knowledge here. About the whole process of diagnosis I'm currently speaking with French people. Apparently, the whole process is extremly long. I've just red that it is taking 2 to 5 years. I wnder if it is the same in other countries. Being independant and all, I wonder if it's really usefull to go through all this myself. I'm not even sure that I have autism. I just know that I've something undiagnosed that made the first decades of my life rather difficult. :lol:

Goodness no, it doesn't take as long here! (Unless your medical professional refuses to believe you of course. Mine was diagnosed at an early age.)


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scofieldmichael
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17 Feb 2021, 8:04 pm

thankyou



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10 Apr 2021, 4:38 am

I am French and have high functioning autism (the type HFA).
Although I have been poorly taken care of for a long time, I feel really lucky.
Concerning care, especially for autistic people with more difficulties, waiting times for admissions in care structures or adapted schools sometimes reach ten years.
Sometimes, care structures are hell: castles in France and new structures in Belgium (Belgium welcomes French autistic people because there is no place in France) where gloomy events take place, where cameras are forbidden, where medication is inappropriate, where autistic people are still subjected to packing despite its recent prohibition in the law (and there are many other forms of infringement of human dignity there : lack of hygiene, intimacy, care, contentions).
In France, autistic people are mistreated.
Those who have the least capacity are locked up in institutions without any prospect of development, autonomy and the luckiest ones are left to their fate and told that they have to fend for themselves: their difficulties do not count.
I swear that autism is not well seen in France and the spectre of psychoanalysis reigns as an arbiter in certain court decisions, which is inadmissible.

I was very lucky to have been diagnosed without any problems but my case is pretty rare.
Studies of psychology in french universities only devote two hours to autism compared to the many years devoted to psychoanalysis so many doctors ignore what is autism spectrum.
In France, the waiting lists in Autism Centers are long (from one to five years), often 3 years and most people are redirected to private practitioners: you have to be able to afford it because diagnosis is a financial investment and practitioners are rare and busy.
On the Internet, I have read a lot of testimonials about people being told by doctors that they are not autistic because they can talk and look in the eyes.
Most of the time, people suspected of autism are forced to see too few psychiatrists specializing in autism to finally be allowed to undergo diagnostic tests.

Because of psychoanalytic obedience and a lack of allocated financial resources, psychiatry in France is a mess.

Fortunately, since a few years, autistic children are finally considered but the medical care is still very difficult and there are very few teachning assistants because there is no formation to autism, it is a poorly paid job, a poorly regarded job and sometimes there are three children to take care of at the same time for one teaching assistant.
Maybe one day, autistic adults will be considered, too.

PS: - YES, « French autistic children are being forcefully removed from their parents » (source : Rachel affair).
- A precision: in English, « TSA » is « ASD » and in french, « ASD » is « TSA ».

Sorry for my bad english.



JakeCorn
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12 May 2021, 8:56 am

It's a big problem.