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Gi4jfAAe
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23 Jan 2012, 11:51 pm

Without going into too much detail on myself, I'm around 20 years old and was diagnosed with PDD-NOS a couple of years ago. (after going through much torment to figure out what I had.) I'm currently in the process of recovery (I don't know what that means to people here, since many here seem to be skeptical of even recovery from mild forms of autism), but one thing I feel would really help would be to have idea of my true IQ. I know how many on the autism spectrum have depressed IQ scores, but I've never really come across much on those with PDD-NOS. It's caused me so many long running identity issues, and to have some idea of my true IQ score would not only give me peace of mind, but I also feel act as a good component to recovery- such as understanding the nature of my processes and what I could work towards to improve, not to mention just give me internal drive.

I first took an IQ test in 2002, but never finished it. I eventually took a raven's in 5th grade for entry into the gifted class, but was just 2 points below entry. (I know raven's are very g-loaded, but I'm not familiar with what their scores stand for.) My next one was in 2007 where it was never fully graded, but a huge discrepancy between my verbal ability (in the 120's) and my working memory (in the 70's) was noted. I ended up taking 2 more I think in 2008- one I just scored 111, the other I'm not sure, but it was noted my verbal ability was in the 99th percentile (higher than 2007.) Then, one I took in 2009, my overall score jumped up to 126. This was sometime after about 6 months of sensory integration therapy (which only really affected my motor skills). I took another in 2010 where I ended up at 121, and my most recent one, in early 2011, was some condensed IQ test where I ended up at 118.

I've been a tad over the board, but in only the past few years have I seen any real stability with scores. I've gone through so much, but my scores haven't changed much, and that kind of goes in line with how, at heart, I hit the same exact walls I've been hitting for close to 10 years now. This all comes down to the fact my case of PDD-NOS seems to be very minor. Virtually every case of children I've read or heard of, they show significant deficits even in very early childhood. My symptoms were always quite minor- I had some definite oddities I don't want to go into, and I was very hyper and pretty sensitive and preferential, but barring the former, nothing that out of the ordinary. I did show some behavior problems throughout elementary school, and in some cases some borderline delinquent behavior, but there were plenty of kids worse than me throughout elementary. I didn't really start having problems until middle school.

In particular, all of the other cases of PDD-NOS I've come across show traits similar to me, but markedly exaggerated. And that brings up the issue of my IQ (and personality) independent of PDD-NOS. It seems like my earliest scores would have registered 110-120 (or around 120), so I really have to ask- for people who show such relatively high scores that early on, what would they show upon making substantial improvements or full-blown recovery? In fact, what are the typical scores of early diagnoses of PDD-NOS? I've seen studies claiming jumps of over 20 points after therapy. As mild as my case is, it's been, in the long run, very debilitating, and I get the impression virtually all PDD-NOS cases show similar IQ deficits. I personally have virtually no doubt in my mind my IQ is in the 130's, but I really just don't know.

I've also been hoping I might be able to find someone who might be able to get a picture of my IQ from neurological scans. There's been mountains of research done on the neurology of general intelligence in the past couple of decades, and while we still can't get a very exact picture of someone's IQ from brain scans, I imagine there'd be some diagnostic outlet independent of plain research that would allow me this opportunity. Someone or some group that would be willing to pinpoint aspects of my brain structure/functioning and get a picture of my IQ from there. I've read much literature on it in the past several years, but I always remember, in 2005, seeing a documentary on gifted children where it was noted they had generally had average brain sizes, but very slow glucose metabolizations- which is a noted correlate of IQ. It was just a very simple, easily identifiable chemical process, so it makes me wonder how hard it be to come by atleast something like that.

It's not even a matter of an autism diagnosis, which I've heard brain scanning has only begun to be used in that. I plan to contact some groups over the course of this week, but in the meantime, what can anybody tell me here of IQ progression in PDD-NOS cases and what I might expect? (and maybe some options for getting a neurological assessment.)



Last edited by Gi4jfAAe on 25 Jan 2012, 11:09 am, edited 4 times in total.

1000Knives
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24 Jan 2012, 12:33 am

Your IQ scores sound like what I have, NVLD, nonverbal learning disorder. Basically, very high verbal IQ, but low performance IQ. Mine was like 130+ verbal, and then like 80 nonverbal. Pretty significant gap. Basically, from what I understand, it's more that your right brain just sucks. As far as what you can do, the sensory integration I guess is helpful. For me, I started doing more athletic activities and noted a lot of mental improvement, so I guess my right brain is getting exercised a bit more. Besides that, I also learned I need extra B vitamins. I also take fish oil and it helps. When I'm in a pinch, I take caffeine, sometimes abusing caffeine, and it helps me. But really, that's about all I can suggest, find a sport that requires fine motor skills (for me I ended up getting into ice skating) and do it often, and make sure your nutrition is good.

But, your real IQ score probably is that. I mean, unless you took a bunch of drugs or got a head injury or something... Last online IQ test I took was 95 for a general performance test, and then online I scored the 130ish in verbal. Back when I was a kid, I scored 110 on an IQ test, but back then I think the only reason was because I was more used to doing math and whatnot, so that part of the brain was more active. But, it sounds to me from those test scores, you have nonverbal learning disability. So yeah, look up NVLD, and see if it fits, but from the IQ profile alone you gave, probably have NVLD. Unfortunately, nobody cares about NVLD, DSM isn't taking it into account, etc, and it's quite a shame.



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24 Jan 2012, 12:37 am

I have PDD-with classic autism traits. I scored everywhere from moderately MR to 135 on IQ tests.
The last lest I had, I scored 120. It is never the same number. However I heard the most accurate IQ tests for those with ASD is nonverbal IQ tests. Not to be confused with non-verbal body language, but the NV IQ test is based on design patterns and being able to spot patterns and completing them.

I scored 135 on a NV IQ test when I scored moderately MR on a traditional IQ test 6 months prior.

Traditional IQ tests dont measure autistics accurately.

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OJani
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24 Jan 2012, 4:49 am

I don't really get your preoccupation with IQ. PDD-NOS has nothing to do with it. There are no assumptions associated with it either that say there's such a connection, not even in practice (like in the case of classic autism and Asperger's).

I have been dx's with PDD-NOS too, just because I don't appear too autistic at age 38 after a lifetime of adjustment, blah...
(diagnostic practice is not consistent within the autism spectrum, to say the least)

As for IQ subscales, I also have a strange figure:

Verbal IQ (VIQ): ?
Verbal Comprehension Index (VCI): 122
Working Memory Index (WMI): 122

Performance IQ (PIQ): ?
Perceptual Organization Index (POI): 138
Processing Speed Index (PSI): 94

Total: 127

I don't know how these subscales add up to VIQ and PIQ, but there's certainly a huge gap between POI and PSI. I think IQ numbers are partly the result of learned abilities, and not always measure what you've been born with. Working memory can be trained in many ways, for example, and verbal comprehension can be developed, too.

What I'm trying to get at is that IQ tests themselves don't tell about your true potential, they only indicate. Perhaps, this is the reason why you seek for a brain scan. However, you're shooting sparrows with a cannon.


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pensieve
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24 Jan 2012, 6:00 am

You want to get better scores on an IQ test? Practice them. Honestly, all you have to do is get better at taking them and you'll get a higher score. I don't even know what my true IQ is because they didn't really tell me. Above 90 was all I needed to know. But back then I didn't have much general knowledge and now I have a lot. I'm quite interested in history and science now. I made myself this way though. Maybe because I was feeling kind of left out.

My personal opinion is sometimes being autistic helps your IQ because we tend to have skills higher on one or two areas. If it's math or memory you're going to score higher in those parts. With me it's facts and general knowledge. But I did better on the matrix reasoning and other picture-type tests. I'm very artistic.

Don't feel like your IQ score will tell you how intelligent you are. There are some forms of intelligence they can't measure. I used to always beat myself up about being bad at math, having a poor short term memory and not being able to verbally explain things in clear way. But I have autism, ADHD and a history of learning disorders. I'm always going to struggle.

I believe that autism had be recovered though. Not many people agree with me but once the symptoms decrease enough to no longer be a burden then you may as well lose your diagnosis.

But yeah, all IQ tests prove is that you are good at IQ tests. It's what you do with your intelligence that's important. The people I know who have high IQ's I wouldn't be able to tell from their personality. Some of them have good memories and can do math better than me (it's really not that hard) but I just don't see them as highly intelligent people.


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24 Jan 2012, 6:47 am

What Pensieve said about practicing iq tests is correct
To improve your score on an IQ test you can practice them. Unfortunately an IQ
Test should only be administered once every 2 yeArs otherwise the results are invalid due to practice effects. Also iq is a bit like personality it doesn't really change that much over time well. Or without signIficant training or effort. For quite a while now say 20 years psychologists are not supposed to give you a single score for your full iq or any of the subtests they are supposed to give you a range of scores within which they are 95% confident that your true score lies. This is due to the fact that people compare single numbers without attaching any relevant meaning to it. Iq measures specifically what it sets out to subtests like working memory, ravens or fluid reasoning, cognitive speed etc they only give an indicaction of what your potential learning capabilities are they dont look at how
Motivated you are or how you apply yourself. I know smart people who are lazy and dumb people who try very hard and eventually succeed in whatever
They put their minds to. Intelligence is only a very small
Component of who you are and what you are caPable of. you're placing too
Much importance on being a certain IQ score.


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24 Jan 2012, 8:08 am

OJani wrote:
Performance IQ (PIQ): ?
Perceptual Organization Index (POI): 138
Processing Speed Index (PSI): 94


Ah, that got my curiosity, interesting combination of scores. Do you have problems with motor skills or "just" very fast fine motor movements by any chance? On first glance, your good POI score would hint at that the PSI score is not simply lower because of pure organisational deficits, a general attention deficit or the like.


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24 Jan 2012, 8:40 am

Someone's not letting me see my exact scores, all I know is that my overall IQ is 130 and my processing speed is terrible.


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OJani
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24 Jan 2012, 9:58 am

Sora wrote:
OJani wrote:
Performance IQ (PIQ): ?
Perceptual Organization Index (POI): 138
Processing Speed Index (PSI): 94


Ah, that got my curiosity, interesting combination of scores. Do you have problems with motor skills or "just" very fast fine motor movements by any chance? On first glance, your good POI score would hint at that the PSI score is not simply lower because of pure organisational deficits, a general attention deficit or the like.

It's an either / or. :) I'm either slow when I move, or have abrupt movements. I prefer the former, though. A possible explanation of the huge difference between POI and PSI could be that I trade some speed for precision at tasks that I find difficult, that is, when my attention can't shifts from one information (or symbol) to another fast enough I will be slow, rather than unable to complete the task or make too many errors.

My motor skills (both fine and gross) are somewhat weak, I'm clumsy, but I suppose not by much.